I can do it on a thread.
I can do it in my bed.
I can do it with my head.
I can do it until the commies are dead.
I can do it in my bed.
I can do it with my head.
I can do it until the commies are dead.
Socialism Is the Only Way
- Thread starter darkbeaver
- Start date
The private sector is in no way more efficient than the public, never was never will be.
The voter is the control on government services.
You're full of neo-liberal nonsence spewed out by crackhead capitalists fans of Thatcher and Reagoonomics, if you'd take a little time to study Medi-Care in Canada versus Medi-Care in the USA you'd see what a colossal sucker you are. You have no idea do you, you're so concerned about your bloody taxes but you don't realize that the bussiness of the private sector is to vacuum up your tax dollars as fast as they can with your help.If you think your taxes are wasted on public cooperative projects for the good of all and that the function of government expendeture is best left to the private sector you are completely mad. Enron Worldcom, Hollanger on and on and on you sir are simply simple minded. If you think we as citizens can expect a fair shake from the bankers and hucksters and snakeoil merchants you're absolutely insane, theft is thier bussiness not goddamn service or quality products, it's about profit do you not understand that, it's all about profit and more profit piled on top of compound profit, christ you're a lost cause.Further to that , examine the state of the US economy today, industrial capacity is at or below 6%, houses are a dime a dozen, jobs suck, wages are thity to thirtyfive percent below what they were in real terms three decades ago the dollars is being dumped all over the planet, the food is poison the air is poison the water is not safe to drink or flush a toilet and we are on the verge of depression never before witnessed but you're a fan of Reaganomics. We could not conduct a recovery if we had a hundred years , which we don't, read the writeing on the phucking wall boy we've been sucked in and destroyed by the same economic idiots and thier insane policys that you want to continue to persue, there's no place to go chump, the show is over except for the starving and dying part. :lol:
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DarkBeaver, "Enron Worldcom, Hollanger on and on and on..."
Your intellectual tactics are the same as Zzarcovs, historical evidence, reduced to the level of reliability of anecdote by discriminatory selection, resulting in historical perspective revisionism.
Your intellectual tactics are the same as Zzarcovs, historical evidence, reduced to the level of reliability of anecdote by discriminatory selection, resulting in historical perspective revisionism.
I do have the figures Walter and I will find them for you. Bought into the big fib did you Walter.
If you could explain to yourself how a service such as Medi-care could deliver the same product privately as opposed to publicly and make a profit of thirty percent you might understand what the racket is. It's called the bull**** of media and the powerful public relations machines. Another well discounted claim of the neo-liberal stooges is the efficiency of the private sector as opposed to the public. I'll dig arround and get the material for you Walter but not tonight it's a holiday and I don't work for the private sector on holidays. If you continue on with me you will end up completely discredited yourself Walter. The choice was yours.:lol:
I never said in general weather private or public services were delivered more efficiently. What I said is badly managed private enterprise tends to go out of business where as badly manged public services keep sucking the blood of the tax payer.
The voter is not in control of government services. Bureaucrats are in control of government services. Moreover, the larger the public sector becomes the harder it becomes to trim the fat as more and more people become dependent upon government sectioned garnishing of peoples salaries in the private sector.
I agree that Canada health care works well as to weather it is better then US health care that depends on your disposable income. Canadian health care is a one size fits all heath care system. Americans have greater flexibility to choose the plan that suites them. American's spend more on health care because they get a greater amount of service.
As for calling me a believer in "Reagoonomics economics". The size of government grew faster under Ronald Reagan then it did under Jimmy Carter. I hardly see Reagan as a shiny example of a capitalist leader.
Your right. The more money you have the more money you spend. That's why people say it is never enough. Speaking of supply and demand, if people have more money to spend what do you think that does to the supply of houses. If less people are working for the government how do you think that helps the supply of construction workers or factory workers. Business must face the laws of supply and demand. People vote in a Capitalist economy with there dollars for the services they want which gives them far more say in what goods are produced then under a socialist system.
Banking is not a free market system. We can discuss banking reform in another thread.
I already told you I'm know fan of Regan. Also despite Bush's mismanagement of the economy the United States still has lower debt per Capita then Canada. There are also plenty of market controls in the United States. The US government is not lean. That said we can agree that it is more lean then Canada and coincidently it has a higher GDP per capita then Canada:
United States
GDP (PPP) 2007 estimate - Total $13,675,129 m[4] (1st) - Per capita $43,444 (4th)
Canada
GDP (PPP) 2006 estimate - Total $1.165 trillion (11th) - Per capita $35,600 (10th)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada
Who says there will be a 30% profit margin. Many business have very small profit margins as a result of competition. For instance, the airline industry, the auto industry and the telecom industry have very low profit margins. High profit margins tend to attract competition.
No. DB, Capitalism is about private ownership of means of production. The fact that I am not WalMart or Exxon, nor am I any sort of multinational bank does not mean that I don't subscribe to such ideals.
We have socialist programs. Lots of them. overlapping and in abundance. We have social housing and health care and education, and workplace safety and employment insurance.
If a business is breaking the law it should be prosecuted. if the laws are inadequate they should be changded. Businesses opperate within the framework that is set up by legislation and enforced by the poiice and the courts. Actions that are not illegal should not be persecuted.
Iarthere4Iam, "If a business is breaking the law it should be prosecuted. if the laws are inadequate they should be changded. Businesses opperate within the framework that is set up by legislation and enforced by the poiice and the courts. Actions that are not illegal should not be persecuted."
This is wonderfully sensible, and is the intended design and actual practise in general. But what is the point of telling the facts to one who thinks they know it all already, to one who virtually hates reality? The mind closed by hatred, resentment, jealousy and guilt is a house built on sand. It will collapse of its own utter uselessness in time. The alternative is to acknowledge error and rebuild it. But you cannot help the unwilling. Your wisdom is not recognized. It is honourable to speak the truth, until it becomes apparent that you are talking to swine.
This is wonderfully sensible, and is the intended design and actual practise in general. But what is the point of telling the facts to one who thinks they know it all already, to one who virtually hates reality? The mind closed by hatred, resentment, jealousy and guilt is a house built on sand. It will collapse of its own utter uselessness in time. The alternative is to acknowledge error and rebuild it. But you cannot help the unwilling. Your wisdom is not recognized. It is honourable to speak the truth, until it becomes apparent that you are talking to swine.
The thrust of the neo-liberal revolution Jim was to streamline and or eliminate legislation that was designed to do exactly as you suggest. Hence the tired old term "level playing field" , a piece of stupid propaganda, the relationship of bussiness to public was never intended to be equal, it never can be equal for exactly the reasons church and state were separated. The right of private corporate enterprise to equal status with the state is and always was a mistake indeed the meaning of organized crime itself, remember there is only one corporate ideal and that is profit by any means. Todays transnationals are organized crime, they operate above any regulation, in fact it can be demonstrated that they have been insturmental in writing much of the regulatory framework that now exists , borders and regulations have been molded for the corporations not the public who have been sold wholesale to them as a package of consumers and wage slaves.
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DB, "The thrust of the neo-liberal revolution..."
Never heard of this revolution. Did you make it up?
DB, "... the relationship of bussiness to public was never intended to be equal, it never can be equal for exactly the reasons church and state were separated."
You just make this nonsense up as you go along. This is baseless drivel.
DB, "The right of private corporate enterprise to equal status with the state is and always was a mistake indeed the meaning of organized crime itself, remember there is only one corporate ideal and that is profit by any means."
You are so jealous of material success - I have rarely met anyone so wildly materialistic. You need help. I have worked many years in many corporations and not one of them had your moral degeneracy. You have nothing to teach me, nothing good to share at all, just lies, nonsense and abuse.
While I often find you amusing Beaver, I'm putting you on 'ignore' because more frequently I find you inane, and it's a bit of a sad show, you parading your bitter delusions with such foolish pride. You are so far behind you think that you are first. Let me know when you get back on your meds.
Never heard of this revolution. Did you make it up?
DB, "... the relationship of bussiness to public was never intended to be equal, it never can be equal for exactly the reasons church and state were separated."
You just make this nonsense up as you go along. This is baseless drivel.
DB, "The right of private corporate enterprise to equal status with the state is and always was a mistake indeed the meaning of organized crime itself, remember there is only one corporate ideal and that is profit by any means."
You are so jealous of material success - I have rarely met anyone so wildly materialistic. You need help. I have worked many years in many corporations and not one of them had your moral degeneracy. You have nothing to teach me, nothing good to share at all, just lies, nonsense and abuse.
While I often find you amusing Beaver, I'm putting you on 'ignore' because more frequently I find you inane, and it's a bit of a sad show, you parading your bitter delusions with such foolish pride. You are so far behind you think that you are first. Let me know when you get back on your meds.
Well Jim what made you think I was trying to teach you anything? My only purpose was to destroy your argument, which you have already done everytime you posted. Please feel free to insult and denegrate me all you wish Jim, it's completely to my advantage, you have already relegated yourself to the land on the inconsequential, a harmless excentric, another wool bearing follower.
Regrettably DB, I still get notice of your posts, but fortunately, I can ignore them manually. I guess this will put a damper on our relationship. I've never refused to speak to anyone before. Real men don't do that, do they?
Yes, parting is such sweet sorrow. You sound bitter. I can't imagine being without me myself, but chin up my friend, it's probably not so bad.
As for me being without you, now we're talking about peace. We never speak of peace. We never speak of good. You call evil good and good evil. Woe is you.
The ethics, service, industry, profit, and social glue that are Canadian corporations, private and public and for profit/non-profit, government and even foreign owned, and the governments of municipalities provinces and the nation, these are all corporate structures. To rail against them all the cynical way that you do is to rail against your own employer, or your neighbours', your suppliers, servicers, public servants, consumers, community and larger community, and what is left but possibly rabble or hypocrites? Oh, dear - they're socialists! So social.
Now what was this thread supposed to be about? 'Socialism is the Only Way' You're not social but you're oh so 'only way'.
Yes, parting is such sweet sorrow. You sound bitter. I can't imagine being without me myself, but chin up my friend, it's probably not so bad.
As for me being without you, now we're talking about peace. We never speak of peace. We never speak of good. You call evil good and good evil. Woe is you.
The ethics, service, industry, profit, and social glue that are Canadian corporations, private and public and for profit/non-profit, government and even foreign owned, and the governments of municipalities provinces and the nation, these are all corporate structures. To rail against them all the cynical way that you do is to rail against your own employer, or your neighbours', your suppliers, servicers, public servants, consumers, community and larger community, and what is left but possibly rabble or hypocrites? Oh, dear - they're socialists! So social.
Now what was this thread supposed to be about? 'Socialism is the Only Way' You're not social but you're oh so 'only way'.
Well Jim your still obscuring the issues, certainly there is a difference between a public corporation and a private corporation. I do not condemn public corporations nor public service institution, wholesale. However private corporate power and greed has become the enemy of mankind, this is amply demonstrated. You're responsible for that having become the
truth that it is today, you could have prevented that, instead you allowed it to happen. Did you think it was all for the good of humanity? The social glue that is now the bond of money and greed and gluttonous consumption, can only hold together the privilaged few at the continued fatal expence of the many. I thought you were going to ignor me Jim? Is that just another empty promise of a neo-liberal corporatist, or will you actually take your marbles and go home?
very true I should point out by size I mean size of economy ,resources being more important than people. It is better to have more stuff than people, than more people than stuff. In the case of Iceland it is the fact that it is part of a much larger economy (The European Economic Area, making it part of the EU single market).
Which is my point, you can't compete with a larger economy by being a small fish. Even Switzerland is has agreements to enter into the EU common market.
Which is the point, its part of being a capitalist society.
which is why Jim Short is a moron, he's just being argumentative, he doesn't even know what he's debating, just he needs to say the opposite of what others are saying.
While I rarely agree with Darkbeaver , usually only on self evident truths (such as the sky is blue), Jim Short is being the type who would have a knee jerk reaction and say "The sky isn't blue! Thats just leftist drivel!".
Seriously, you don't need to distort reality and outright lie to make a point.
Capitalism, is not perfect. It has failings and if left unregulated leads to robber barons. When too much power is accumulated in one persons hands with no accountability, you get a dictatorship.
If that person is a wealthy landowner, a religious cleric, a communist agitor, a military commander or what have you is just semantics. It boils down to the same and we have seen it time and time again, a dictatorship.
But the base concepts of capitalism and utilitarianism, when well regulated (to keep out things such as mafia ties and non-competing monopolies) is a better system.
I swear to god Jim Short is just a card carrying communist trying to make those who support a capitalist system look foolish.
Propaganda myth tells us that capitalism and free enterprise are one and the same thing. They are not. Under free enterprise a business can provide a service or product, make a profit in the process, and continue on stably for many years. Under capitalism such a business would be considered a failure - it does not provide a growth opportunity for an investor. Under capitalism society is forced to continually destroy old ways of doing things and adopt new ways - not because it is good for society but because that is how wealthy investors can increase their wealth still further. That's why General Motors and Firestone banded together to destroy excellent urban transit systems throughout the U.S. in the 1940s and 1950s - so that people would be forced to convert to automobiles and create growth for the automobile, tire, and petroleum industries. For exactly the same reasons, and during the same period, rail systems were destroyed in Great Britain and Ireland.
The history of the past two centuries can be understood as a process of creating new growth vehicles as required by the capitalist system. Imperialism provided immense room for capital growth and enough wealth was generated to be shared with Western populations. This process continued up until the late 1960s. At that point growth through external imperialism began to slow down. Neoliberalism permitted growth to continue by consuming the nest of capitalism - by dismantling Western societies and subjecting them to intensive capitalist exploitation. Globalization takes this process even further - creating capital growth through intensive exploitation on a global scale. The new-world-order system of global tyranny is a necessity for capitalism - in order to force the world's people to submit to the exploitation which globalization represents.
Humanity can do better than this - much better - and there is re
R K Moore Globalization and the Revolutionary Imperative pg27
The history of the past two centuries can be understood as a process of creating new growth vehicles as required by the capitalist system. Imperialism provided immense room for capital growth and enough wealth was generated to be shared with Western populations. This process continued up until the late 1960s. At that point growth through external imperialism began to slow down. Neoliberalism permitted growth to continue by consuming the nest of capitalism - by dismantling Western societies and subjecting them to intensive capitalist exploitation. Globalization takes this process even further - creating capital growth through intensive exploitation on a global scale. The new-world-order system of global tyranny is a necessity for capitalism - in order to force the world's people to submit to the exploitation which globalization represents.
Humanity can do better than this - much better - and there is re
R K Moore Globalization and the Revolutionary Imperative pg27
Humanity can do better than this - much better - and there is reason to hope that the time is ripe for humanity to bring about fundamental changes. For the past two hundred years capitalism has employed an unbeatable formula to maintain its stranglehold over the world. That formula has been based on the relative prosperity of Western populations. Popular support maintained Western regimes and those regimes had the military might to dominate the rest of the world. That formula reached its culmination in the postwar years when Western prosperity reached unprecedented heights.
With neoliberalism and globalization, this formula has been replaced by another. Western populations and democracy have been abandoned and capitalist elites have bet their future on the success of their WTO new-world-order tyrannical system. In a few years this regime may be so thoroughly established that it will be invincible. But in the meantime - if Western populations wake up to the fact that they are being betrayed - they have the opportunity to rise up and assert the democratic sovereignty which they in theory yet possess.
Maintaining the status quo is no longer an option. The nature of capitalism is forcing revolutionary changes. Those of us in the West have a choice. On the one hand we can acquiesce to global tyranny so that capitalism can continue its insane growth. On the other hand, we can assert our rights as free peoples - we can oust the elites from power and reorganize our economies so that they serve the needs of people instead of the needs of endless wealth accumulation.
This is our Revolutionary Imperative. Not an imperative to violent revolution, but an imperative to do something even more revolutionary - to set humanity on a sane course using peaceful, democratic means. RK Moore pg28 Globalization and the Revolutionary Imperative
The paper was written seven years ago. I wonder if the peaceful democratic option is still viable? I hope so, my legions are still drunk in thier barracks, and none of my fizzissists have a clue about nukes.
With neoliberalism and globalization, this formula has been replaced by another. Western populations and democracy have been abandoned and capitalist elites have bet their future on the success of their WTO new-world-order tyrannical system. In a few years this regime may be so thoroughly established that it will be invincible. But in the meantime - if Western populations wake up to the fact that they are being betrayed - they have the opportunity to rise up and assert the democratic sovereignty which they in theory yet possess.
Maintaining the status quo is no longer an option. The nature of capitalism is forcing revolutionary changes. Those of us in the West have a choice. On the one hand we can acquiesce to global tyranny so that capitalism can continue its insane growth. On the other hand, we can assert our rights as free peoples - we can oust the elites from power and reorganize our economies so that they serve the needs of people instead of the needs of endless wealth accumulation.
This is our Revolutionary Imperative. Not an imperative to violent revolution, but an imperative to do something even more revolutionary - to set humanity on a sane course using peaceful, democratic means. RK Moore pg28 Globalization and the Revolutionary Imperative
The paper was written seven years ago. I wonder if the peaceful democratic option is still viable? I hope so, my legions are still drunk in thier barracks, and none of my fizzissists have a clue about nukes.
Dozens die in Kenyan election violence
Last Updated: Monday, December 31, 2007 | 10:10 PM ET
CBC News
At least 125 people have been killed in Kenya, according to media reports Monday, amid clashes between rioters and police over a disputed presidential election that has plunged one of Africa's most stable nations into chaos.
Imagine what it's like in the unstable nations.