Socialism Is the Only Way

jimshort19

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Nov 24, 2007
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Lester, "Nope - feedstock is raw materials used to form a more useful product- eg...Put Capitalists in and get hockey pucks out."

ok. So I guess socialism really is the only way, but like capitalism is the only way to socialism. But socialism is the only way to what?
 

darkbeaver

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Jan 26, 2006
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are you talking frankenfood, cats that glow in the dark, cloned livestock, sh*t like dat- I think i'm more worried about Nanobots turning the planet into grey goo because of a programming error.
Yes I was reading a little about that as well Lester, you know none of this stuff has any but the thinest regulatory oversight. I't s all left to the self regulating capatalists, there's an oxymoron to beat all previous oxymorons, on a par with vegan foxes working security on free range chicken farms.
 

smdfaru

New Member
Someone says he has read Marx.

You claim to having read Marx. Then you should have gleaned from the reading that the very first requirement for a worker is to understand his or her economic relationaship in a capitalist society. One would think that you would not have to delve deeply into Marx’s writing to grasp some of that. Be aware of your surroundings, Marx didn’t just conjure stuff out of his head, he was aware of his surroundings and a scholar of history. Do you fancy yourself a scholar of history. Idoubt that you are by a long shot.

The US capitalist economy came to screeching halt during the “Great Depression.” Why? The system was able to produce an abundance of everything for everyone. Well, why not, the capitalist class extracted excessive surplus value through exploitation of wage labor (what Marx referred to as “wage slavery”). In layman’s terms excessive surplus value means excessive profits. Here is the key to the rub. Pay workers more and they are able to buy more. Pay them less and they are able to buy less. All workers should know that the tendency of the capitalist class is to reduce its capital investment, socially necessary labor time (the hourly time a worker expends in the production of a product). It follows that all workers should know that when the capitalist class does that (try to squeeze blood out of a turnip) and takes his reduced pay check to the store, he can buy less of the merchandise. That is not a tendency, it is a fact of life exerted upon the worker by the voracious appetite the capitalist class has for profit.

What brought the US capitalism out of the depression was a great war (”the war to end all wars”!!!). But along with that came a major hitch. Who is going to pay for it. The more that the capitalist class foots the bill, the less their profit margin is–perish the thought. The capitalist class informs its governmental lackys, just charge it. Charge it to who or what? From thereon came about the floating of paper. But there is a limit to floating paper within the nation's banking system. With the great war, it was heaped upon by the Korean War, the Vietnam War, the Iraq War and all the other minor military expeditions. There came a time when the domestic float of paper became saturated (workers should know what a float is, with the use of computers, checking account transaction became almost immediate. Workers can no longer float, write out a check without funds in the checking account to cover it and hope to make a deposit to cover it in time. Even before the advent of computers, the worker’s float would be saturated quickly). Several years ago, the US started to stretch the float with foreign countries. In the beginning mainly with Japan and now heaped on with China. Can you imagine, dealing all those years with that “red scare” and now heaping upon our country’s float from that country, and the Chinese Communist Party is still intact! A corollary is the float (plastic) of the working class (commonally referred to as consumers), the vast majority of the country. Now with the saturation of paper float is added the saturation of plastic float. One doesn’t have to laboriously peruse the writings of Marx to see that. Just plant your eyes on the business section of the daily newspapers (be aware of your surroundings). The one thing that economists agree on is that the major element that drives the American economy are the everyday consumers, of course they shudder to say the working class.

As any worker should readily see, the country is in dire straits. The first order of the day is not to frantically dissipate energy thrashing the proposition of socialism. If a worker so fervently rejects socialism, then the logical thing to do is come up with a better proposition to put an end to the dire straits of capitalist economy. “Government for the people, by the people and of the people,” and “we the people,” lets us hear it. The silence is deafening.

http://socialismmarxdeleonforarealunion.org/index.html

Don
 

Lester

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Sep 28, 2007
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Every Country on the planet owes every other Country on the planet it's all one big float - Kiting cheques on a global scale. irresponsible fools unable to see the consequences of their folly - People had better start learning to grow thier own food and generate thier own electricity.
 

darkbeaver

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Jan 26, 2006
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Every Country on the planet owes every other Country on the planet it's all one big float - Kiting cheques on a global scale. irresponsible fools unable to see the consequences of their folly - People had better start learning to grow thier own food and generate thier own electricity.
Damn right Lester, because the capitalist machine is bent on destroying by starvation half the people on the planet.
 

darkbeaver

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Jan 26, 2006
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Jared Diamond and the Consumption Factor

by Thomas Riggins / January 7th, 2008
People making a New Year’s resolution to consume less should bolster their resolve by reading Jared Diamond’s “What’s Your Consumption Factor?” in Wednesday’s New York Times. (1/2/08) However, your or my individual consumption may not make a big difference. Diamond, the author of Guns, Germs and Steel and Collapse, is addressing a civilizational problem regarding the difference in consumption levels between First World countries and the developing world. (Full article …)
 

Lester

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A time will come in the not so distant future where the playing field will have to be leveled, you cannot have 5% of the population owning 95% of the worlds wealth, that makes 95% of the pop subserviant to the wealthy 5% -I can see no reason on Earth why any one individual would need more than two million dollars to lead a satisfying life and provide for their retirement. Some of these guys have enough money to pay off the national debt of some third world countries!
 

jimshort19

Electoral Member
Nov 24, 2007
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Smdfaru, "What brought the US capitalism out of the depression was a great war (”the war to end all wars”!!!)."

I don't mean to nitpick but 'the war to end all wars' was the first world war, and the great depression came after it.

So you see what 'dire straits' we are in. This kills me. Dire straits. No, YOU are in dire straits. If a worker came to me to whine about capitalism, I'd tell him to grow up.
 

darkbeaver

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Jan 26, 2006
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Smdfaru, "What brought the US capitalism out of the depression was a great war (”the war to end all wars”!!!)."

I don't mean to nitpick but 'the war to end all wars' was the first world war, and the great depression came after it.

So you see what 'dire straits' we are in. This kills me. Dire straits. No, YOU are in dire straits. If a worker came to me to whine about capitalism, I'd tell him to grow up.


And if I were that worker and I have been you would pay dearly for your mouth, just like they did. The stupidity of the capitalist boss is always his undoing, rather than a fair deal he'll alienate those who his own fat purse depend upon.
 

jimshort19

Electoral Member
Nov 24, 2007
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Lester, "A time will come in the not so distant future where the playing field will have to be leveled, you cannot have 5% of the population owning 95% of the worlds wealth, that makes 95% of the pop subserviant to the wealthy 5%"

What force will bring this coming about?

Lester, "I can see no reason on Earth why any one individual would need more than two million dollars to lead a satisfying life and provide for their retirement. Some of these guys have enough money to pay off the national debt of some third world countries!"

But it is their money, right? Just as mine is mine. They didn't take it from you, did they? You may suppose that the poor have a moral dib on the money of the rich. A more equitable distribution is better for all concerned, in theory, but handing money out doesn't work. the force of the coming, perhaps it will work, but I don't know what it is beyond investment in education and employment in poor communities.
 

Lester

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Sep 28, 2007
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I don't know what will bring it about Jim, but it can't go on like this forever - Maybe Capitalism will sow the seeds of it's own destruction. Technology could bring it about maybe when oil hits three hun a barrel- your already seeing rioting in the streets in some African Nations because they can't afford fuel, When you used one hundred calories of energy to produce one calorie of food and the price of energy triples and you can't afford to eat, then what? How do you feed your family? Do you obey the law and starve or do you go after the HAVES, Much like Market corrections I beleive there will be a Social Correction
 

darkbeaver

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Jan 26, 2006
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Lester, "A time will come in the not so distant future where the playing field will have to be leveled, you cannot have 5% of the population owning 95% of the worlds wealth, that makes 95% of the pop subserviant to the wealthy 5%"

What force will bring this coming about?

Lester, "I can see no reason on Earth why any one individual would need more than two million dollars to lead a satisfying life and provide for their retirement. Some of these guys have enough money to pay off the national debt of some third world countries!"

But it is their money, right? Just as mine is mine. They didn't take it from you, did they? You may suppose that the poor have a moral dib on the money of the rich. A more equitable distribution is better for all concerned, in theory, but handing money out doesn't work. the force of the coming, perhaps it will work, but I don't know what it is beyond investment in education and employment in poor communities.

The Bank of International Settlement is the central bank of all central banks there is no authority higher than that on the planet Jim, it is the law, do you get that, it is the law, capitalism steals the wealth it holds Jim by genicide by addiction and by compound interest and everyother dirty scam in it's book because it does not exist under any law but it's own. Capitalism is a disease, you are one of it's little symtoms. Keep your charity Jim socialism does not require the scraps off the capitalist table, which incidentally is what international charity really is, just thin capitalist scraps, coughed up on the whim of fat fools to placate the masses and make the doners feel good. You don't know what is beyond investment and education and employment in poor communitys, well there's nothing beyond capitalist bull**** like that because they have never delivered, not even once in all of hitory. 95% for the wealthy 5% , 5% for the poor 95%, there's your capitalist hand up Jim, and a grasping greedy hand it is. Soon that hand will be cut off.
 

Lester

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Sep 28, 2007
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time

But it is their money, right? Just as mine is mine. They didn't take it from you, did they? .

Every time I pay a system access fee for my cell phone they steal my money. There is a class action lawsuit against all the cell carriers in Canada for precisely that reason they are theives and the they would have kept stealing, if they wouldn't have gotten caught.
 

darkbeaver

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Jan 26, 2006
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Give them an inch and they'll take the whole yardstick 100 times out of 100 without fail.
Those figures on wealth ditribution get me steaming angry and boiling mad every time I think of them.Then we have the bloody lies surrounding western aid programes that have all my life consistantly and convieniently failed without fail. So you'd think a sophisticated machine that can suck up 95% of the planets wealth would be able to turn the appaling disaster of third world poverty arround in a flash wouldn't ya, yeah only if you were deaf blind dumb and stupid because you can't enjoy the box seats and feed the hungry at the same time so they continue to starve and die by the millions and we continue to believe that capitalists are humans, we are romantic fools eh.
 

darkbeaver

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Jan 26, 2006
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Stephen Hawkings

That wasn't it either. My full name is Donald J Donaker. I will have to look further on how to get it up there.

I'm very happy to see you Mr Donaker. I think you need a certain number of post before you can get your name up there but I'm not sure. Stephen Hawkings was just part of a forum assigned title that has since been changed to allow personalization, I added the plumber part because I like plumbers. It's very late here and I'm tired and going to crash for the night, and it's raining so my bloody phone line is buzzing and it makes posting very slow, so I'll say goodnight. I'll see you tommorow.
 

smdfaru

New Member
jimshort19

As you said"



"Smdfaru, "What brought the US capitalism out of the depression was a great war (”the war to end all wars”!!!)."
"I don't mean to nitpick but 'the war to end all wars' was the first world war, and the great depression came after it.
"So you see what 'dire straits' we are in. This kills me. Dire straits. No, YOU are in dire straits. If a

worker came to me to whine about capitalism, I'd tell him to grow up."

Who said "the war to end all wars? Whoever did, has no exclusive right to the expression. There were millions of people who had enough of WWII and didn't ever want to see another one. That is why the expression came to my mind. If you are looking for accuracy, an officially adopted expression, you got me cold. Does that alter the message in any way. But I will make sure in the future that I won't give a nit picker something to pick on.

"Grow up," you getting on to something, its the people who run countries that need to grow up. The ones that grew up stopped playing silly war games as kids.

Donald J Donaker