Should political parties be abolished?
- Thread starter El Barto
- Start date
You guys are running into a conundrum that bedevils every conflict of interest law and
every lobbyist influence law.
The riddle is that, almost always the people who know, the people who are experts,
the people who have the most knowlege are the very ones forbidden to advise our
politicians.
Because those same experts can benefit from that politician.
Very rare is the impartial expert.
Also those laws governing lobbyist influence are already on the books, and
it is a fine line how to interpret all the case law of loop holes that have grown up
around those statutes.
The clearest solution which has no chance of passing is to forbid all tax breakes
to any group.
It's all about tax breaks first, isn't it ?
And then what is harder is an outright subsidy.
Don't outlaw subsidies. Just throw sunlight on the subsidy. That's embarrassing usually.
every lobbyist influence law.
The riddle is that, almost always the people who know, the people who are experts,
the people who have the most knowlege are the very ones forbidden to advise our
politicians.
Because those same experts can benefit from that politician.
Very rare is the impartial expert.
Also those laws governing lobbyist influence are already on the books, and
it is a fine line how to interpret all the case law of loop holes that have grown up
around those statutes.
The clearest solution which has no chance of passing is to forbid all tax breakes
to any group.
It's all about tax breaks first, isn't it ?
And then what is harder is an outright subsidy.
Don't outlaw subsidies. Just throw sunlight on the subsidy. That's embarrassing usually.
Cut their salary,give all the MP's free room and board,supply them with personal allowance and let them govern with love of their country in their hearts..Free haircuts too, ............just joking though that would be nice .
Anyone who represents the people should be satisfied with an upper level government worker salary scale and should expect to be paid exactly that.
It is the "perks" I dislike - these are vague and leave the people uninformed as to their worth and how they benefit any lawmaker other than personal prestige.... We should have a published cost scale of how much money is expected to be laid out for meetings on international issues or provincial issues which takes them away from government offices and business of the nation.
They are outfitted with fine offices and modes of transportation and have many days off from their duties within the bounds of the legislature....
Their meetings and gatherings should all be taken within those buildings.... not travel to some far off resort to spend thousands of taxpayer dollars wining and dining and pushing their own reputations...
The people are expecting work for the dollar... not public relations and cocktail parties...
It is the "perks" I dislike - these are vague and leave the people uninformed as to their worth and how they benefit any lawmaker other than personal prestige.... We should have a published cost scale of how much money is expected to be laid out for meetings on international issues or provincial issues which takes them away from government offices and business of the nation.
They are outfitted with fine offices and modes of transportation and have many days off from their duties within the bounds of the legislature....
Their meetings and gatherings should all be taken within those buildings.... not travel to some far off resort to spend thousands of taxpayer dollars wining and dining and pushing their own reputations...
The people are expecting work for the dollar... not public relations and cocktail parties...
We do expect our reps to better reflect the conditions of those they represent. And, more importantly, their views. Political parties are a necessity. But parliamentary rules should serve first the interest of democracy and second that of the party. We need more free votes in parliament so that the charges of oligarchy and plutocracy often levelled - fairly - against Canada can be answered. I expect my rep to be smart but I doubt very much he'll be smarter than the bulk of the educated in his constituency. When I go to the polls I am voting for a representative and an individual who understands what that means. I am not voting for a gopher for any political party. Canada does a really crappy job at government and the bulk of the blame lies with power assignments in parliament: who gets to call the shots and how.
Pay the MP's decently. Give them a few perks, the same perks professionals should enjoy. Then knuckle down and demand performance.
Pay the MP's decently. Give them a few perks, the same perks professionals should enjoy. Then knuckle down and demand performance.
We can dabble with government structure all we want, it'll change very little, as long as the balance of power remains in the corporate sphere.
That's pretty straight up.They will always contribute to, and do things for, the purpose of their own survival.
How should economy thrive without companies? Where would people work to earn a living for themselves and their families?
Governments can be dedicated to their people rather than corporate sponsorship. It comes down to the people in government seeking more power with higher available money.
Have you any idea how much it costs just to get elected? Where else is the money going to come from if not from the corporations who expect a handshake in return.
And then there are the ambitious billionaires who like to think they have a puppet on a string working to enforce all the billionaire's wishes through legislation...
Not a pretty way to look at it but I don't see any other suggestions.
Governments can be dedicated to their people rather than corporate sponsorship. It comes down to the people in government seeking more power with higher available money.
Have you any idea how much it costs just to get elected? Where else is the money going to come from if not from the corporations who expect a handshake in return.
And then there are the ambitious billionaires who like to think they have a puppet on a string working to enforce all the billionaire's wishes through legislation...
Not a pretty way to look at it but I don't see any other suggestions.
What happened in Argentina is that the exact opposite of what you are seem to be proposing. The insidious nature of autarkic populism by Peron et. al. took one of the richest countries on earth, one that was as rich as Canada in 1920, and turned it into a basket-case. They, too, wanted to "control their own resources". They, too, wanted to "protect their citizens". They, too, wanted to "chart their own destiny". They, too, wanted "their own people, not foreigners or corporations, control their destiny." And what did it get them? 14,000% inflation. The real destruction of the middle class. And military dictatorship (who also propogated the same disastorous policies.) They, like many countries of their day - and Zimbabwe of today - tried to defy the iron laws of economics in the name of "democracy." Their unbridled economic ignorance destroyed the wealth of a prosperous nation.
Unfortunately, such ignorance seems to wallow in the minds of the unrealistic idealists who have learned nothing from history. Thank God those people are few and far between in the West.
Cutting off profits is a remarkably bad idea. High profits attract more capital to the industry, more capital means more competition, and more competition means lower prices and profits. Attempting to control profits and prices always leads to shortages.
And your earnings have nothing to do with the profits of oil companies. If you want higher earnings, go find a higher paying job.
Toro I wasn't speaking just for my self. To get a better job sounds easy to say but not all that can.
El Barto
Toro I wasn't speaking just for my self. To get a better job sounds easy to say but not all that can.------------------------------------
Have you tried to work for yourself?
Toro I wasn't speaking just for my self. To get a better job sounds easy to say but not all that can.------------------------------------
Have you tried to work for yourself?
Almost there going to get my contractors licence soon. But thats not the topic boo hoo
We've diverted the subject , and I didn't help to keep on track.
. His earnings have everything to do with oilcompany profits. Oil is connected to everyones earnings. :wave:
In America last year, the average energy bill for the average household went up something like $600-$700. The average income went up by something like $3200.
Was that real income cuz I can't find this increase you're quoting, and in any case the number of income earners fell, competition is good but you can't let it get out of hand, you know the last thing company A wants is to get locked into competition with company B, what happened to Wal-marts competition and is that kind of concentration good for anybody.Uncontrolled competition leads to monopolys and thats whats happening now. :wave:
Darkbeaver, I think some regulation of capitalism is absolutely necessary.
The argument is always about how much and in what way.
And so we develop political parties that compete in this arena, one party going
for the poor and disenfranchised, the other party going for the right to have opportunity
and incentive.
Political parties are a necessity with much more pros than cons.
Untrammelled, untied individuals with allegiance to nobody ----- well that has its faults too.
Particularly if that individual is highly egotistal, solopsistic, an actor on a stage using
any issue or problem AS JUST ANOTHER PROP in the spotlight just to aggrandize himself.
Hmmm, that happens anyway, doesn't it ???
Like a bumper sticker I almost ran into one day because I was very impatient:
IT'S ALL ABOUT YOU, ISN'T IT ?
The argument is always about how much and in what way.
And so we develop political parties that compete in this arena, one party going
for the poor and disenfranchised, the other party going for the right to have opportunity
and incentive.
Political parties are a necessity with much more pros than cons.
Untrammelled, untied individuals with allegiance to nobody ----- well that has its faults too.
Particularly if that individual is highly egotistal, solopsistic, an actor on a stage using
any issue or problem AS JUST ANOTHER PROP in the spotlight just to aggrandize himself.
Hmmm, that happens anyway, doesn't it ???
Like a bumper sticker I almost ran into one day because I was very impatient:
IT'S ALL ABOUT YOU, ISN'T IT ?
Should political parties be abolished?
I don't think so, but these parties should realise that the public are the ones that shoulds wield the highest power in a country, not them. My favorite example is Switzerland's gov't. Their public has the last word and the politicians always keep that in mind.
I don't think so, but these parties should realise that the public are the ones that shoulds wield the highest power in a country, not them. My favorite example is Switzerland's gov't. Their public has the last word and the politicians always keep that in mind.