Should Canada adopt the Swiss military model?

[Machjo]

Wouldn't the adoption of a Swiss military model help to put an end to much of the military debates in Canada?

For example, with such a model, nearly each citizen would would be trained and equipped. Then, if a citizen wants of his own free will to work as a mercenary in this or that war, it would be his prerogative, but no one would force him. Canada would train him and equip him for war on Canadian soil. If he chooses to work as a mercenary, of course he leaves his equipment behind in Canada, but he'd certainly be free to go and fight abroad if he wishes.

This way, those who don't want Canada to go to war get what they want (Canada does not declare war on any country unless attacked), and those who support the war get what they want (the government trains them and they can sell their skills wherever they want in the world).

How's that for democratizing the military?

 

[DaSleeper]

Interesting concept:-|

 

[YukonJack]

"Should Canada adopt the Swiss military model?"

Only for high school dropouts - four years of compulsory military service.

 

[Machjo]

"Should Canada adopt the Swiss military model?"

Only for high school dropouts - four years of compulsory military service.

Riiiight. An army dominated by rifle-wielding illiterates. Genius.

 

[Nuggler]

Riiiight. An army dominated by rifle-wielding illiterates. Genius.

What do we have now???

 

[YukonJack]

"Riiiight. An army dominated by rifle-wielding illiterates. Genius."

I will try to be more polite than you ever could be, Machjo.

In any military worth of its name, designation and purpose, a useless and profligate illiterate would be a useless and profligate illiterate for only so long.

Discipline, order and proper regimen has been known to convert people of hopeless causes into disciplined, useful and productive citizens.

It should not take a genius to realize that I meant that.

 

[wulfie68]

Well the Swiss aren't the only nation with compulsary military service but this solution leaves out a number of things that would still be thorns in the side of any government we elect.

- what about "non warlike" jobs that the military does (i.e. Coastguard and Search-And-Rescue operations)?
- what about our existing treaty obligations to important trading partners and nations that share similar value sets?
- what happens with peace keeping operations for the UN or other bodies that Canada has committed to?

Honestly I can see this working for Switzerland in large part because they ARE a very small country with no real aspirations to be a world leader, which is very much against the grain with the vision that many Canadians have of our country. Canadians WANT to be taken seriously, to be looked upon as a good example of how to exist and to be world leaders. Switzerland has a history if being isolationist that runs counter to that type of image. Canadians are generally proud of the contributions our people made in the world wars and being a "defender of freedom" (or "one of the good guys" if you prefer) is a part of most Canadians' national identity.

In terms of eliminating the need for gun control (if everyone is trained and armed by the state it makes it redundant), sure it might get rid of some headaches but I don't think we as a people would want to go there.

 

[Ron in Regina]

For example, with such a model, nearly each citizen would would be trained and equipped.

Equipped? In Canada? That would be interesting....

 

[Machjo]

"Riiiight. An army dominated by rifle-wielding illiterates. Genius."

I will try to be more polite than you ever could be, Machjo.

In any military worth of its name, designation and purpose, a useless and profligate illiterate would be a useless and profligate illiterate for only so long.

Discipline, order and proper regimen has been known to convert people of hopeless causes into disciplined, useful and productive citizens.

It should not take a genius to realize that I meant that.

Oh come off the stereotypes. I'd been in the military before, and all most were involved in on the weekend was binge drinking and getting laid. And my main vocabulary expansion was in the field of derogatory ethnic slurs I'd only heard on the rare occasion before that.

I didn't get along too well with that group mainly to my dislike of the drinking and debauchery lifestyle and so as relations soured, both my superiors and I realized it was best that I leave.

I'll tell you right now that that whole idea of discipline is rubbish in most cases, or at least the ones I'd witnessed.

Do you really want to subjugate a high school drop out who might in fact be suffering from alcoholism or other issues to such peer pressure? Not a good idea, especially if you have a force dominated by such a group.

This too is where conscription might actually have the benefit of including more mainstream members of the community into the military so as to give these dropouts a chance to actually meet role models worth of emulation.

If the situation was as bad as I'd witnessed it to be when I was there, imagine what it would e like if you added a concentration of illiterates to that mix. And then imagine Canada's PR abroad when such a rag tag is sent to fight.

 

[Risus]

Will we have Canadian Army Knives?? 8O

 

[Machjo]

Equipped? In Canada? That would be interesting....

Was there a joke intended there? I was referring to weapons and other military equipment of course of course and not what's in their pants.

In most of Switzerland (I think there may be exceptions in some border regions) soldiers must keep their personal weapon and equipment in the home. Construction standards also require the construction of shelters that can either be built under your home or by the city as a public shelter. If there are not enough shelters, then the local government must build more. As a result, the Swiss army has enough shelters for 115% of the population.

 

[YukonJack]

Machjo, you obviously did not serve in a military worth of its name designation and purpose, as I said in my post or you just chose ignore what I said.

 

[taxslave]

Riiiight. An army dominated by rifle-wielding illiterates. Genius.

They are more commonly referred to as cannon fodder.

 

[YukonJack]

"They are more commonly referred to as cannon fodder"

That ignorant statement may have been true when they were DRAFTRED.

Now everybody in the armed forces are VOLUNTEERS.

They join - supposedly - knowing what they are signing up for

If after they complete their service they out no better than when they joined, they deserve to be cannon fodders.

Luckily they are few and far between. (Except in the minds of .. see above).

 

[Machjo]

Machjo, you obviously did not serve in a military worth of its name designation and purpose, as I said in my post or you just chose ignore what I said.

So what you're saying then is that if the Canadian military today is the same as it was when I was in it, then it's a whole waste of taxpayers' money?

 

[YukonJack]

"So what you're saying then is that if the Canadian military today is the same as it was when I was in it, then it's a whole waste of taxpayers' money?"

No, all I am saying is that you obviously learned nothing and profited zero from you military experience. You probably described yourself in your response to my first post

 

[Machjo]

"They are more commonly referred to as cannon fodder"

That ignorant statement may have been true when they were DRAFTRED.

Now everybody in the armed forces are VOLUNTEERS.

They join - supposedly - knowing what they are signing up for

If after they complete their service they out no better than when they joined, they deserve to be cannon fodders.

Luckily they are few and far between. (Except in the minds of .. see above).

I take issue with something here. Yes, in the OP I was proposing mandatory conscription for defensive purposes but certainly not as a means of developing character. The military trains to kill, a useful skill in the defense of a country, but hardly what you want to be teaching a person who's having a hard time integrating into society. for them, you might want to simply provide alternative education that might be more suitable for them, aimed at integrating them and making them productive members of society.

Again, the military is not the place to develop character. In fact, if anything, I'd say character ought to be a prerequisite to entering the military, and those who exhibit poor character ought to be disciplined or booted out, mainly so they don't influence others in the group.

Again, you need to get that military romanticism out of your head. Since the beginning of time, soldiers have been trained to become professional killers. Hardly the ideal education for character development.

 

[Ron in Regina]

Equipped? In Canada? That would be interesting....

Was there a joke intended there? I was referring to weapons and other military equipment of course of course and not what's in their pants.

In most of Switzerland (I think there may be exceptions in some border regions) soldiers must keep their personal weapon and equipment in the home. Construction standards also require the construction of shelters that can either be built under your home or by the city as a public shelter. If there are not enough shelters, then the local government must build more. As a result, the Swiss army has enough shelters for 115% of the population.

That's what I meant too. I thought the goal of the Gun Registry was to disarm the
Canadian population through the burorcratic process...I like the idea you're
proposing, but I'm not going to hold my breath waiting.

 

[Machjo]

"So what you're saying then is that if the Canadian military today is the same as it was when I was in it, then it's a whole waste of taxpayers' money?"

No, all I am saying is that you obviously learned nothing and profited zero from you military experience. You probably described yourself in your response to my first post

I'm a teetotaler and had gotten zero sex my whole time in the military. It just wasn't my style to e sleeping around with strangers. And needless to say, this made me a bit of an outcast in the group.

So I ask the question again:

So what you're saying then is that if the Canadian military today is the same as it was when I was in it, then it's a whole waste of taxpayers' money?

 

[Machjo]

That's what I meant too. I thought the goal of the Gun Registry was to disarm the
Canadian population through the burorcratic process...I like the idea you're
proposing, but I'm not going to hold my breath waiting.

I'll admit that I'm not so fond of the right to bear arms except when necessary. However, I also tend to be quite open to the definition of 'necessary', which could include hunting and self-subsistence, sport, defense, professional or other reasons. Certainly a military responsibility imposed on a large portion of the populace would make the bearing of arms necessary for them at least.

This this might sound odd to you, I don't have a weapon and would not want one since it is simply not necessary, and under such circumstances having a weapons becomes more of a liability than an advantage. Yet I could still support the mandatory bearing of arms.

I know it might appear contradictory to a certain degree, but it's not entirely so. If I'm obligated to bear arms, then my possessing a weapon does not threaten anyone around me since they know I have a legitimate reason to need it, whereas if I own a weapon for no obvious reason, then that could cause worry among others in the community. So it's more about ensuring a friendly and trusting community.

On a broader front, if a person is a known hunter, or is involved in a sport that requires a weapon, etc. that's not likely to worry anyone. But when a person has a rifle and no one seems to know he'd need it, clearly that's not conducive to building a healthy community. This is why I see no contradiction in such a position.