Scientists link harsh winter to dramatic decline in Arctic Sea Ice

[petros]

A healthy tree can fight off the fungus, there have been very hot and dry summers and warm winters on and off in in Nor Am for the past 13,000 years.

It may look like sh*t and hurt the forestry and tourism industry but it will pass and the forest will be healthier in the end.

Little Boy Blue, what would these people be doing for a living if they admitted it's was all part of the the natural cycle?

Sure core flux induced warming helps them along at a quicker pace than normal but in the end the forest still needs the beetle as much as the beetle needs the forest.

We could be idiots and spray the forest with fungicide but that won't replenish the soil nutrients.

We do have the capabilities to inoculate the soil with mycologicals but that would still throw off the balance.

All we can do is sit back and let nature run it's course.

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

That's the way it works bub.

Forest grows old and weak, gets diseased, the soil gets depleted along come the beetle kills the tree, rejuvenates the soil through fires and rot and the trees thrive for another 300 years in nutrient rich soils.

Fire alone isn't enough and for the past 100 years we've been controlling the fire.

The trees get weak and can't fight off a beetle infestation because they don't have the nutrients to out grow the damage of the beetle.

No matter how hard you try, you'll never get a tree to grow in soil that doesn't have the nutrients to support it.

Natures has it's ways of taking care of itself without humans getting their panties in a bunch.

People are the same way. If you are malnourished good luck at having your immune system fight off disease.

You're still ignoring the role that weather plays in allowing the beetle to expand into areas where in the past it couldn't due to cold winter weather and in particular early fall and early spring cold snaps which catch the beetles without adequate protection.

http://cfs.nrcan.gc.ca/pubwarehouse/pdfs/26601.pdf

The current latitudinal and elevational range of mountain pine beetle (MPB) is not
limited by available hosts. Instead, its potential to expand north and east has been
restricted by climatic conditions unfavorable for brood development. We combined a
model of the impact of climatic conditions on the establishment and persistence of MPB
populations with a spatially explicit, climate-driven simulation tool. Historic weather
records were used to produce maps of the distribution of past climatically suitable
habitats for MPB in British Columbia. Overlays of annual MPB occurrence on these
maps were used to determine if the beetle has expanded its range in recent years due to
changing climate. An examination of the distribution of climatically suitable habitats in
10-year increments derived from climate normals (1921-1950 to 1971-2000) clearly
shows an increase in the range of benign habitats. Furthermore, an increase (at an
increasing rate) in the number of infestations since 1970 in formerly climatically
unsuitable habitats indicates that MPB populations have expanded into these new areas.

The potential for additional range expansion by MPB under continued global warming
was assessed from projections derived from the CGCM1 global circulation model and a
conservative forcing scenario equivalent to a doubling of CO2 (relative to the 1980s) by
approximately 2050. Predicted weather conditions were combined with the climatic
suitability model to examine the distribution of benign habitats from 1981-2010 to 1941-
2070 for all of Canada. The area of climatically suitable habitats is anticipated to
continue to increase within the historic range of MPB. Moreover, much of the boreal
forest will become climatically available to the beetle in the near future. Since jack pine
is a viable host for MPB and a major component of the boreal forest, continued eastward
expansion by MPB is probable.

Intentionally leaving out essential elements of an explanation is inherently dishonest I find.

 

[L Gilbert]

A healthy tree can fight off the fungus,

Young ones can. The fungus has ways around the trees natural polyphenolic defenses; the beetle being one of them.

there have been very hot and dry summers and warm winters on and off in in Nor Am for the past 13,000 years.

Really?

It may look like sh*t and hurt the forestry and tourism industry but it will pass and the forest will be healthier in the end.

That's no compensation to the faller who lost his $300/day job to go earn $20/hour fixing small engines or $15 / hour tossing lumber around at a building supply center.

 

[petros]

As a food producer, my life evolves around weather being co-operative too which involves decadal long cycles of too wet and cool like the past 10 years to the droughts like we had in the 80's, 50's and 30's and so on which are induced by the Pacific Oscillation.

If you want to ride a financial roller coaster get into a career that involves harvesting renewable natural resources. It's like trying to make a living off of gambling in a casino.

 

[L Gilbert]

As a food producer, my life evolves around weather being co-operative too which involves decadal long cycles of too wet and cool like the past 10 years to the droughts like we had in the 80's, 50's and 30's and so on which are induced by the Pacific Oscillation.

If you want to ride a financial roller coaster get into a career that involves harvesting renewable natural resources. It's like trying to make a living off of gambling in a casino.

lol Thanks for the tip but I think we'll stick to harvesting fruit n raising chickens.

 

[petros]

lol Thanks for the tip but I think we'll stick to harvesting fruit n raising chickens.

If it doesn't warm up, I just might have to end up doing that too if I can't put the rest of my seed into the ground.

 

[L Gilbert]

If it doesn't warm up, I just might have to end up doing that too if I can't put the rest of my seed into the ground.

Weird around here, too. Today, it is cloudy and 18 right now. Usually it is fairly cool and rainy till middle of June but not this cool. April was warmer during the day. Lucky if we get much fruit if the bees can't learn to put parkas on.

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

What a load of BS, when they don't even have psuedo facts to throw around the deniers just turn a serious thread on climate change into trivia.

Go socialize on another thread if you have nothing relevant to say.

 

[L Gilbert]

Lighten up fer f'ks sake.

 

[petros]

What a load of BS, when they don't even have psuedo facts to throw around the deniers just turn a serious thread on climate change into trivia.

Go socialize on another thread if you have nothing relevant to say.

You don't know what the Pacific Oscillation is?

Weird around here, too. Today, it is cloudy and 18 right now. Usually it is fairly cool and rainy till middle of June but not this cool. April was warmer during the day. Lucky if we get much fruit if the bees can't learn to put parkas on.

We've been having frost warnings. I've been seeding only what is dry and warm enough on a day by days basis.

Stock up on flour and cooking oil.

The wheat and canola crops are going to be a joke this year.

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

Lighten up fer f'ks sake.

Go spam another thread, there are some of us who take this issue seriously.

If you don't have anything relevant to add, and you don't right now, then let someone who does carry on the discussion.

 

[L Gilbert]

Go spam another thread, there are some of us who take this issue seriously.

If you don't have anything relevant to add, and you don't right now, then let someone who does carry on the discussion.

Oh, I take it seriously, but that doesn't mean I have to stick my lower lip out and stamp my feet.
and hold my breath till I turn blue.

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

Oh, I take it seriously, but that doesn't mean I have to stick my lower lip out and stamp my feet.
and hold my breath till I turn blue.

And yet you go and on....

 

[darkbeaver]

So when did trees come to have more rights to life and the pursuit of happiness and self expression than beetles? That sounds like species discrimination to me.Sounds like somebody thinks the trees are more important because of purely economic reason. I think that's an interesting question. Nature don't make mistakes, the beetles got the green light, they're following sacred orders.

 

[L Gilbert]

And yet you go and on....

uhuh whatever you say Mr. Pot.

So when did trees come to have more rights to life and the pursuit of happiness and self expression than beetles? That sounds like species discrimination to me.Sounds like somebody thinks the trees are more important because of purely economic reason. I think that's an interesting question. Nature don't make mistakes, the beetles got the green light, they're following sacred orders.

lol.

 

[darkbeaver]

Save the western pine beetle.

 

[L Gilbert]

Save the western pine beetle.

I dunno. It just doesn't seem like it needs saving for some reason or other. lol