Remembrance day forgotten

[gerryh]

Remembrance day, there's a misnomer if there ever was one. Instead of people remembering the horrors of war and working towards the end of all wars, they are memorializing those that did the killing only. Glorifying them.

What should be remembered, are the millions of innocent people that were killed, the millions that were left homeless. The thousands upon thousands permanently injured and maimed. Not just adults, but children as well. War does not discriminate. The weapons used don't care if their victim is 1 or 91. Far more innocents have been killed in wars than those that we "remember" on Nov 11. Those innocents didn't volunteer to be put into harms way.


It's past time to start "remembering" the important things. Remembering what those brave men in WWI were told. That they were fighting the "war to end all wars" to ensure peace for their family's and future generations. It's past time to remember and make those words more than the hollow words that they have been up to now. It's past time to make it so that those brave men, and boys, that fought and died from 1914 to 1918 did not sacrifice their lives for naught.

 

[petros]

+1 !

 

[Cannuck]

 

[Spade]

Well said, Gerryh! The glorification of war is the role of the propagandist.

And the band played Waltzing Mathilda - YouTube

 

[wulfie68]

Remembrance day, there's a misnomer if there ever was one. Instead of people remembering the horrors of war and working towards the end of all wars, they are memorializing those that did the killing only. Glorifying them.

I actually think the name is pretty damned good. Are you psychic that you can go into the minds of so many and determine what they think and feel? Such omnipotence is staggering and must be quite a burden...

What should be remembered, are the millions of innocent people that were killed, the millions that were left homeless. The thousands upon thousands permanently injured and maimed. Not just adults, but children as well. War does not discriminate. The weapons used don't care if their victim is 1 or 91. Far more innocents have been killed in wars than those that we "remember" on Nov 11. Those innocents didn't volunteer to be put into harms way.

I'll concede a partial point here. Civilians caught in the crossfire, who become "collateral damage" are a large part of the human tragedy of wars. I think that we tend to concentrate on the soldiers more, because of the choice they made: they chose to defend what they thought needed defending. In many cases they felt that their society was in danger, every man, woman and child. There is something noble in that kind of self sacrifice, along the same line as the cop putting themselves in harm's way to stop a criminal or a firefighter trying to stop a blaze, yet from a coldly logical perspective dwelling on self preservation, it seems almost stupid. Those who are collateral damage, are just victims. I think it goes to the conceit that many of us have, that we want to do whats right, and if we are remembered, to be remembered for that instead of just being a lamb for the slaughter.

It's past time to start "remembering" the important things. Remembering what those brave men in WWI were told. That they were fighting the "war to end all wars" to ensure peace for their family's and future generations. It's past time to remember and make those words more than the hollow words that they have been up to now. It's past time to make it so that those brave men, and boys, that fought and died from 1914 to 1918 did not sacrifice their lives for naught.

That is part of the message that the Legion tries to put out there, but at the same time its not just up to us, as many do not fully appreciate. There are people in this world who are jealous and resentful of others and will use any means to bring down those who they are jealous of. We have a choice: do we bow to the demands of those others or defend ourselves from them? If someone breaks into your house, threatening to rape your wife and kill your kids/grandkids would you try to fight them or bow your head and let them do what they will? Should we as a nation let others dismantle our society, take our resources, impose their values on us and enslave us? I don't argue that peace is desirable and peaceful coexistence with our neighbours should be our goal, but there are limits in what we can concede to make that happen.

 

[TenPenny]

Remembrance day, there's a misnomer if there ever was one. Instead of people remembering the horrors of war and working towards the end of all wars, they are memorializing those that did the killing only. Glorifying them.

What should be remembered, are the millions of innocent people that were killed, the millions that were left homeless. The thousands upon thousands permanently injured and maimed. Not just adults, but children as well. War does not discriminate. The weapons used don't care if their victim is 1 or 91. Far more innocents have been killed in wars than those that we "remember" on Nov 11. Those innocents didn't volunteer to be put into harms way.


It's past time to start "remembering" the important things. Remembering what those brave men in WWI were told. That they were fighting the "war to end all wars" to ensure peace for their family's and future generations. It's past time to remember and make those words more than the hollow words that they have been up to now. It's past time to make it so that those brave men, and boys, that fought and died from 1914 to 1918 did not sacrifice their lives for naught.

If you don't remember those things, it's not my fault. I think about them. You're allowed to, as well.

 

[#juan]

Since it's inception, Remembrance Day has been a day to remember our soldiers who died in WW1 and the wars that followed. It has nothing to do with civillian deaths. Nothing to stop anyone remembering what they want but Remembrance Day is for soldiers.


Remembrance Day

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Remembrance Day
Remembrance Day in Canada. The memorial at the McCrae House (detail view); two Canadian-style poppy pins can be seen resting on the sculpture. Official name Remembrance Day Also called Poppy Day, Armistice Day Observed by Commonwealth of Nations (except Mozambique) Type International Significance Commemorates Commonwealth war dead Date 11 November Observances Parades, silences Related to Veterans Day Remembrance Day (also known as Poppy Day, Armistice Day or Veterans Day) is a memorial day observed in Commonwealth countries to remember the members of their armed forces who have died in the line of duty since World War I. This day, or alternative dates, are also recognized as special days for war remembrances in many non-Commonwealth countries. Remembrance Day is observed on 11 November to recall the official end of World War I on that date in 1918; hostilities formally ended "at the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month" of 1918 with the German signing of the Armistice ("at the 11th hour" refers to the passing of the 11th hour, or 11:00 a.m.)
The day was specifically dedicated by King George V on 7 November 1919 as a day of remembrance of members of the armed forces who were killed during World War I. This was possibly done upon the suggestion of Edward George Honey to Wellesley Tudor Pole, who established two ceremonial periods of remembrance based on events in 1917.[1]
The red remembrance poppy has become a familiar emblem of Remembrance Day due to the poem "In Flanders Fields". These poppies bloomed across some of the worst battlefields of Flanders in World War I, their brilliant red colour an appropriate symbol for the blood spilled.

 

[darkbeaver]

Amazing pictures of landscape still scarred by WWI

 

[Colpy]

Remembrance day, there's a misnomer if there ever was one. Instead of people remembering the horrors of war and working towards the end of all wars, they are memorializing those that did the killing only. Glorifying them.

What should be remembered, are the millions of innocent people that were killed, the millions that were left homeless. The thousands upon thousands permanently injured and maimed. Not just adults, but children as well. War does not discriminate. The weapons used don't care if their victim is 1 or 91. Far more innocents have been killed in wars than those that we "remember" on Nov 11. Those innocents didn't volunteer to be put into harms way.


It's past time to start "remembering" the important things. Remembering what those brave men in WWI were told. That they were fighting the "war to end all wars" to ensure peace for their family's and future generations. It's past time to remember and make those words more than the hollow words that they have been up to now. It's past time to make it so that those brave men, and boys, that fought and died from 1914 to 1918 did not sacrifice their lives for naught.

"War and rumor of war" is, was, and always will be a very nasty part of human existence.

You get to come on these threads and spout out whatever you please because people fought for you in numerous conflicts the world over............in living memory, World War Two, Korea, various peace-keeping operations and Afghanistan has cost us almost 50,000 dead soldiers.

As George Orwell said "" We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm. ". Defending us has cost those "rough men' dearly, and they deserve their day.

The white poppy, which benefits no one, is simply a kick in the shins to our veterans, and a symbol of the vacuity of the wearer.

Orwell again, speaking of World War Two:

" Pacifism is objectively pro-fascist. This is elementary common sense. If you hamper the war effort of one side, you automatically help out that of the other. Nor is there any real way of remaining outside such a war as the present one. In practice, 'he that is not with me is against me. "

 

[The Old Medic]

Remembrance Day is NOT about what YOU claim it is.

It is to remember those brave men and women, from the Canadian Armed Forces, who gave their lives, to stop tyranny. It has absolutely nothing to do with civilians, or as an anti-war movement.

SHAME ON YOU FOR ATTEMPTING TO HIJACK A SPECIFIC DAY SET ASIDE TO REMEMBER THE MILITARY PERSONNEL THAT GAVE THEIR LIVES!

And, that includes my Great Uncle, Private Leslie Arthur Black, who died on 10 April 1917 during an artillery bombardment, and is buried in the Military Cemetery at Thelus, Pas d'Calais, France.

 

[#juan]

Amazing pictures of landscape still scarred by WWI

Great pictures beaver. I visited a lot of those sites 40 years ago. I don't know the age of your photos but
I don't suppose those places have changed much over the years.

 

[DurkaDurka]

Amazing pictures of landscape still scarred by WWI

Amazing series of photos, DB. Quite haunting some of them are.

 

[darkbeaver]

Sobering, enlightening example of the much alluded to sacrifice. Scattered in those scars are the blood and bones of ten million barely remembered precious youth.

 

[damngrumpy]

Remembrance day should be about a lot of things. We should remember those who
died for our freedom, We should remember those who lived and in many cases we
did not stand by them like we should have when they came home after defending us.
Remembrance day should be about the brave souls who worked behind the lines to
pave the way for our invasion of Europe and in Asia as there were many allies among
the enemy on those Pacific Islands that helped to ensure the return of allied soldiers.
There were brave men and women who flew planed across the Atlantic and some of the
died doing so. We should pay tribute to those who worked long hours in the factories
many or most in some cases women who made the weapons with care to supply the
boys at the front.
We should thank those wonderful people in Holland and other nations that welcomed
our troops when they arrived in their towns and villages and especially the civilians in
those countries who continue to upkeep the graves in many of those towns. Even today
the children of Holland and France honour our dead who fought for their freedom and
in some cases we at home use the day for a 30% off day in a big box store.
This isn't about glorifying war, its about all those who played a part in making the sacrifice
so we can maintain the wonderful life we often like to bitch about. It is time for this
nation and others to collectively grow up and thank our lucky stars that our kids never
had to eat out of garbage cans and live in bombed out buildings in rags, or among the
dead without anyone to care for them.
My father in later years, actually the last two or three years of his life told me some of
the horror's he had seen. There is nothing glorious about war, it has unspeakable
crimes on both sides attached to it and we better understand that. It is also at times a
necessary evil, that if we don't stand up and be counted the consequences are more
devastating than if we ignored the truth coming right at us.
We can be proud of our nations fighting men, they are viewed with respect where they
serve. That is a testament in itself, the measure of a man or woman's worth is measured
by the respect they receive from those they help. For our country the measure of that
respect overflows the cup.
There are so many to thank, and so many who deserve to be recognized for their effort
and sacrifice. We must remember both the living and the dead. After all the ones who
lived through that terrible time, were the ones who made the sacrifices to rebuild their
lives, and the nation so we can enjoy the way of life that was forged for us out of the
destruction of the past. Let Us Not Forget That Tomorrow.

(end of rant)

 

[Locutus]

While the traditional and accepted observation of Remembrance Day will never change in my opinion, there is certainly room for alternate views and reflection.

The white poppy and this thread for example. Agreeing to disagree or simply accepting that there is another point of view seems to work for most people.

 

[CDNBear]

What should be remembered, are the millions of innocent people that were killed, the millions that were left homeless.

I'll remember them with you Gh...

and what Loc said.

 

[#juan]

While the traditional and accepted observation of Remembrance Day will never change in my opinion, there is certainly room for alternate views and reflection.

The white poppy and this thread for example. Agreeing to disagree or simply accepting that there is another point of view seems to work for most people.

Veterans Day, formerly Armistice Day, is an annual United States holiday honoring military veterans. It is a federal holiday that is observed on November 11. It is also celebrated as Armistice Day or Remembrance Day in other parts of the world and falls on November 11, the anniversary of the signing of the Armistice that ended World War I. (Major hostilities of World War I were formally ended at the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month of 1918 with the German signing of the Armistice.)

I have no problem with people wanting to remember something else but November 11 is a day set aside for remembering our fallen soldiers and has been for a hundred years or so. Why change it? Take your white poppy somewhere else and start your own day
and I will support your day, but not on November 11.

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

A few years ago a writer friend of mine was heading to France to walk the Somme and take a second tour of the battlefields made famous by The Great War. I asked if he could stop and leave something at the grave sites of my Uncles who fell in battle in the same week. The first had gotten a wound in his leg that was so bad he died on the operating table while the other was killed by artillery while bearing stretchers. The third brother was shipped home to join his other brother who was a veteran of the Boer War.

Anyhow, my friend made his way to the cemetary and laid a poppy for our family. He lifted at bit of soil from the ground to bring back to Canada at my request. When he brought the soil home we discovered a small piece of shrapnel within the soil. This for me seemed to speak volumes of what these young men endured. I still hold that soil in a small vial and it is my hope that one day I will go to France and lift a bit of soil from my other Uncles resting place. Once this is done I will scatter it at their home here in Canada, a symbolic gesture I know, but some of where they are will once again be home.

This is the Cemetary at Courcellete

My Writer friend.

 

[gerryh]

Remembrance Day is NOT about what YOU claim it is.

It is to remember those brave men and women, from the Canadian Armed Forces, who gave their lives, to stop tyranny. It has absolutely nothing to do with civilians, or as an anti-war movement.

SHAME ON YOU FOR ATTEMPTING TO HIJACK A SPECIFIC DAY SET ASIDE TO REMEMBER THE MILITARY PERSONNEL THAT GAVE THEIR LIVES!

And, that includes my Great Uncle, Private Leslie Arthur Black, who died on 10 April 1917 during an artillery bombardment, and is buried in the Military Cemetery at Thelus, Pas d'Calais, France.

Basically...screw you. You want to glorify war and those that participated, you go right ahead. I WILL NOT support that bullshyte. I will NOT support war of any kind. I will NOT support "remembrance day" in the form it is at this time as it does NOTHING towards peace. It glorifies war. It makes no mention of the suffering war causes except for the "suffering" endured by those that fought and killed their fellow man. The majority of deaths were NOT those people that remembrance day acknowledges.

and yes...I am now getting REAL FU CKING PISSED

 

[wulfie68]

You have the right to believe what you want. You have the right to remember or not as you choose as well. However you should also realize this right to disagree was something purchased with blood, and not something that was/is a divinely granted gift.

The majority of deaths were NOT those people that remembrance day acknowledges.

That is a bad assumption. According to Wiki (admittedly not the best source for a lot of things but OK for this type of info) World War I casualties - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The total number of deaths includes about 10 million military personnel and about 7 million civilians

Now if you want to talk WW II (which you tended to ignore, concentrating on WW I in earlier posts), you're correct according to Wiki World War II casualties - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When scholarly sources differ on the number of deaths in a country, a range of war losses is given, in order to inform readers that the death toll is disputed. Civilians killed totaled from 40 to 52 million, including 13 to 20 million from war-related disease and famine. Total military dead: from 22 to 25 million, including deaths in captivity of about 5 million prisoners of war.