Rational Faith

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
Pigeons lives are controlled by an immaterial force called electromagnetism. Why should humans be any different. A recent study confirms the same force directing the lives of fish as well. Are humans exceptions to this discovery? I think not.
 

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
61,461
10,136
113
Washington DC
Pigeons lives are controlled by an immaterial force called electromagnetism. Why should humans be any different. A recent study confirms the same force directing the lives of fish as well. Are humans exceptions to this discovery? I think not.
Well, it's certainly true that our lives are controlled by electromagnetism, though not in the way I suspect you mean.
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
23,738
107
63
72
50 acres in Kootenays BC
the-brights.net
Of course you guess.
Have to guess, and wildly at that because your knowledge of physics is extremely tenuous.
 

Motar

Council Member
Jun 18, 2013
2,472
39
48
NOT separate? You're stepping well outside standard Christian dogma there, it maintains there's an immaterial soul that survives the death of the body.

Recall the qualifier "humanly speaking" in my previous post, Dex.

human (adj.)
mid-15c., humain, humaigne, from Old French humain, umain (adj.) "of or belonging to man" (12c.), from Latin humanus "of man, human," also "humane, philanthropic, kind, gentle, polite; learned, refined, civilized," probably related to homo (genitive hominis) "man" (see homunculus) and to humus "earth," on notion of "earthly beings," as opposed to the gods (cf. Hebrew adam "man," from adamah "ground"). Cognate with Old Lithuanian zmuo (accusative zmuni) "man, male person."
Online Etymology Dictionary

The etymology of the term "human" relates to the humus/earth. Earth existence is indeed a commingling of matter and spirit. The spiritual however eventually sheds the material:

"At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven." (Matthew 22:30 NIV)
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
23,738
107
63
72
50 acres in Kootenays BC
the-brights.net
Behavioral evidence does not belong in the material/physical evidence type or category, Cliffy. It is not a hair sample. It is soul evidence. It reveals the bent of the human spirit which engenders it. Understanding from a Christian worldview that human beings are more than just "meatsacks", it is reasonable to place human behavior in another evidence category. Spiritual evidence works for me.
hhmmm Oxymorons really are useful for something! I never would have figured.
This tendency of the faithful to use terms like "evidence", "fact", "theory", etc. reminds me of vegans making "burgers", "hotdogs", "turkey", "BBQed ribs", etc. out of soybean curd. :D
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
23,738
107
63
72
50 acres in Kootenays BC
the-brights.net
Not separate, Dex. Humanly speaking, commingled. At times, uncooperative:

“Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.” (Matthew 26:41 NIV)



Well, DB, I cannot speak for the "Neo Christian Church".

Francis Collins and rational faith:

"...to apply scientific arguments to the question of God's existence, as if this were somehow a showstopper, is committing a category error.”
Francis S. Collins Quotes (Author of The Language of God)
People seem to agree about a lot of the symptoms of love, yet ....

http://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/features/the-science-behind-romance

And what's more is Love and madness: not that different
 

Motar

Council Member
Jun 18, 2013
2,472
39
48
hhmmm Oxymorons really are useful for something! I never would have figured.
This tendency of the faithful to use terms like "evidence", "fact", "theory", etc. reminds me of vegans making "burgers", "hotdogs", "turkey", "BBQed ribs", etc. out of soybean curd. :D

You might be surprised to learn that I am currently studying Advanced Cardiovascular Life Support (ACLS) online while I'm following this discussion, LG. Rational faith - it's the subject of this thread. For those who bring head and heart to their investigation of life, there is room for both reason and hope.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
To his credit, he understands the difference between magnetism and electromagnetism. Which puts him one up on you.

So you both understand a difference that dosn't exist.


common misconception 12 — why electricity over magnetism?

Posted on November 29, 2013 by sschirott
Misconception:
Why electricity over magnetism? The Magnetic Universe does not require an Electric Universe.


Answer:
In the real world, electricity and magnetism occur together as a unitary electromagnetic phenomenon. Scientists and engineers often focus their attention on one aspect or the other in order to solve a particular problem. That doesn’t mean the neglected aspect no longer exists. Even in the case of ferromagnetic materials—bar magnets, for example—the magnetism is due to electrons spinning and orbiting around positive nuclei. The resulting current loops can be oriented to generate the exterior magnetic field. The currents are called amperian currents.
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
23,738
107
63
72
50 acres in Kootenays BC
the-brights.net
You might be surprised to learn that I am currently studying Advanced Cardiovascular Life Support (ACLS) online while I'm following this discussion, LG. Rational faith - it's the subject of this thread. For those who bring head and heart to their investigation of life, there is room for both reason and hope.
Why would I be surprised? After all, anyone can use terms whether they can understand them, use them appropriately, etc. or not.
Yes; rational faith - rational, suggesting logical or reasonable, and faith, suggesting spiritual confidence rather than proof or evidence. lol
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia

I'm trying to get you to address the roots of Christianity, contrary to what you believe it did not start two thousand years ago, and it did not start with a living God. Your hesitation to address these historical truths and instead insist on the new chronological history paints you as Neo Christian.

Why would I be surprised? After all, anyone can use terms whether they can understand them, use them appropriately, etc. or not.
Yes; rational faith - rational, suggesting logical or reasonable, and faith, suggesting spiritual confidence rather than proof or evidence. lol

I have changed the oil, charged the battery, filled up the tank and the tires are inflated. Do I have scientific certainty the car will start in the morning or do I have faith that it will start?

PS this is a hypothetical question
?
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
23,738
107
63
72
50 acres in Kootenays BC
the-brights.net
I suspect that you haven't published any paper in support of that.
I don't need to. The evidence concerning your abilities on physics is publicly available to anyone snooping through CC or googling "forums", "physics", and suchlike terms in order to arrive here at CC.. :D

I have changed the oil, charged the battery, filled up the tank and the tires are inflated. Do I have scientific certainty the car will start in the morning or do I have faith that it will start?

PS this is a hypothetical question
?
There are more variables involved that you haven't accounted for (is there even an engine in the car, is it an internal combustion engine or electric, etc., ad nauseum), but taking that into consideration, I'd have to suggest a successful ignition and running would be more of a faith issue than a scientific issue.
 

Motar

Council Member
Jun 18, 2013
2,472
39
48
Why would I be surprised? After all, anyone can use terms whether they can understand them, use them appropriately, etc. or not.
Yes; rational faith - rational, suggesting logical or reasonable, and faith, suggesting spiritual confidence rather than proof or evidence. lol

You attach a "rather than" to faith, LG, suggesting a subjectivity or a personal bias in your consideration of these two concepts.

I'm trying to get you to address the roots of Christianity, contrary to what you believe it did not start two thousand years ago, and it did not start with a living God. Your hesitation to address these historical truths and instead insist on the new chronological history paints you as Neo Christian.

Christ is the root of Christianity, DB. Although the incarnation of Christ occurred about two-thousand years ago, the Spirit of Christ has been active in human history since it's inception.

I have changed the oil, charged the battery, filled up the tank and the tires are inflated. Do I have scientific certainty the car will start in the morning or do I have faith that it will start?

Does the patient have a pulse? Stable or unstable? Wide or narrow QRS complex? Sorry, DB. I need more clinical information : )