Rapporteur David Johnson, Eminent Canadian

[Ron in Regina]

Breakfast with the Trudeaus.

The depths of China’s interference in Canada’s democracy became much more apparent Monday. A report in the Globe and Mail detailed how the family members of Conservative MP Michael Chong, living in Hong Kong, were threatened because of a vote Chong took in 2021.

Chong, the Conservative foreign affairs critic, sponsored a motion in February 2021 calling on the House of Commons to declare China’s actions against Uyghurs and other Turkic Muslims as a genocide.

The motion passed 266 in favour and no votes against, but with the Trudeau cabinet and many Liberal MPs abstaining.

According to a report by the Globe, Zhao Wei, a diplomat at China’s consulate in Toronto, was the diplomat who was tasked with working on harassing Chong’s family.

“The government did not inform me that a diplomat was targeting my family, nor did the government take any action to expel the diplomat responsible for orchestrating this intimidation campaign,” Chong said in a statement Monday.

Chong went on to say that after becoming aware of the interference, and the threats against his family, that two actions should have been taken — neither of which happened. “First, they should have informed me. Second, they should have declared the diplomat persona non grata,” Chong said. Oh well…

LILLEY: Trudeau knew but didn't act on China's threats to MP's family — Toronto Sun

Chong, the Conservative foreign affairs critic, sponsored a motion in February 2021 calling on the House of Commons to declare China’s actions against Uyghurs and other Turkic Muslims as a genocide. The motion passed 266 in favour and no votes against, but with the Trudeau cabinet and many...

apple.news

In his statement, Chong said that he could understand the government not expelling Wei while Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor were still in Chinese prisons, but not after they were released two months later. In fact, Wei is still listed as an active diplomat at China’s consulate in Toronto at this moment.

On Monday, Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre stood to ask why the Trudeau government has not expelled this diplomat despite knowing about the intimidation for two years.

“His government produced a briefing note, which exposed these threats to the MPs family two years ago, and yet the diplomat that worked to punish a Canadian MP’s family is still in Canada when the prime minister could have expelled him. Why didn’t he expel this diplomat?” Poilievre asked.”

Trudeau’s answer was less than forthcoming with details.

“It is absolutely unacceptable for any Canadian to be subjected to intimidation by a foreign power, particularly threats against family and against families of members of Parliament,” Trudeau said???

The PM went on to say that after reading the report in the Globe, he “immediately asked officials to follow up on these reports.” What Trudeau is asking us to believe is that neither he, nor anyone else in his office, was aware of this until Monday morning. Perhaps he’ll assign a special Rapa-Nui to look into this? I hear there’s a bunch of Trudeau Foundation Board Members that now have time on their hands.

The rest at the above link.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Was any law broken?

 

[Ron in Regina]

Was any law broken?

By whom? The Chinese Diplomat intimidating the family in Hong Kong of the Canadian MP? Or the PM being instructed about this two years ago, but now claiming that he didn’t know about it until Monday when he read it in the paper or somebody read it in the paper to him?

I don’t pretend to know anything about diplomatic immunity, so I can’t honestly say if the Chinese diplomat committed a crime or not, but it sure feels like it.

I don’t think the Prime Minister of Canada committed a crime here either, but that’s sure shady and unethical if that’s what really happened, wouldn’t you agree?

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

By whom? The Chinese Diplomat intimidating the family in Hong Kong of the Canadian MP? Or the PM being instructed about this two years ago, but now claiming that he didn’t know about it until Monday when he read it in the paper or somebody read it in the paper to him?

I don’t pretend to know anything about diplomatic immunity, so I can’t honestly say if the Chinese diplomat committed a crime or not, but it sure feels like it.

I don’t think the Prime Minister of Canada committed a crime here either, but that’s sure shady and unethical if that’s what really happened, wouldn’t you agree?

Of course it is. Difference is that "shady and unethical" is another term for "Tuesday" in Washington, and I strongly doubt it's any different in Ottawa (or any other capital). Illegal's a whole 'nother smoke, and invokes a different set of rules.

 

[Ron in Regina]

Of course it is. Difference is that "shady and unethical" is another term for "Tuesday" in Washington, and I strongly doubt it's any different in Ottawa (or any other capital). Illegal's a whole 'nother smoke, and invokes a different set of rules.

So, did the Chinese Diplomat do something illegal? I’m totally out of the loop regarding diplomatic immunity?

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

So, did the Chinese Diplomat do something illegal? I’m totally out of the loop regarding diplomatic immunity?

I don't know, and the story doesn't say. Whether or not the diplomat had immunity is beside the point. Even if he did, he could have been expelled. But "threats" and "intimidation" covers a lot of ground, some illegal, some not.

The whole problem with this alleged Chinese interference is that I can't get anybody to say WHO did WHAT and if there's any law against that action.

 

[Ron in Regina]

The Globe and Mail on Monday reported on the July, 2021, intelligence assessment by the Canadian Security Intelligence Service that found China’s intelligence service, the Ministry of State Security (MSS), “has taken specific actions to target Canadian MPs” linked to the February, 2021, parliamentary motion condemning Beijing’s oppression of Uyghurs and other Turkic minorities.

The motion, which passed, declared that China’s conduct amounts to genocide.

The spy agency said an MSS officer sought information on an unnamed Canadian MP’s relatives “who may be located in the PRC, for further potential sanctions.” This effort, the CSIS report said, “is almost certainly meant to make an example of this MP and deter others from taking anti-PRC positions.”

Yes, this is vague.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

View attachment 18032

The Globe and Mail on Monday reported on the July, 2021, intelligence assessment by the Canadian Security Intelligence Service that found China’s intelligence service, the Ministry of State Security (MSS), “has taken specific actions to target Canadian MPs” linked to the February, 2021, parliamentary motion condemning Beijing’s oppression of Uyghurs and other Turkic minorities.

The motion, which passed, declared that China’s conduct amounts to genocide.

The spy agency said an MSS officer sought information on an unnamed Canadian MP’s relatives “who may be located in the PRC, for further potential sanctions.” This effort, the CSIS report said, “is almost certainly meant to make an example of this MP and deter others from taking anti-PRC positions.”

Yes, this is vague.

Right. "Targetting" is only a crime if it's "targetting" someone with something illegal.

The classic movie-Mafia threat "Nice place you have here. Be a shame if something. . . happened to it" was concocted because, without more, it's not a criminal threat.

 

[Ron in Regina]

Sabrina Maddeaux: Trudeau Foundation so arrogant, it thought it was influencing China — National Post

Former CEO wants Canadians to just write off the $200,000 donation because 'everybody' was dealing with the Chinese Communist Party

apple.news

 

[Ron in Regina]

On Tuesday, the foundation’s former president and CEO Morris Rosenberg testified in front of the House of Commons privacy and ethics committee about the now-infamous $200,000 donation it accepted with links to the Chinese Communist Party (CCP). Rosenberg led the nonprofit at the time and would like MPs and Canadians to write off the controversy as little more than good old-fashioned naivete rather than reckless arrogance.

“Was that naïve at the time? In hindsight, probably it was naive,” said Rosenberg. “It’s not that we were naïve that we were dealing with people that were linked to the Chinese government, because just about everybody was. What we were naïve about was that we actually believed by dealing with them, that we would have soft power influence on them.”

The first part of his excuse — everyone was doing it, so we did, too — is better suited to a high school student caught by their parents with cigarettes than the head of a foundation endowed with $125 million of taxpayer dollars.

It’s rare an MP’s mind is actually changed during a parliamentary hearing, but Rosenberg’s explanation was exasperating enough to manage it. “I’ve been pretty neutral until that comment,” said NDP MP Matthew Green. “Because that has a level of hubris that I think is the challenge that this foundation is facing, quite frankly, that has gotten us into this mess.”

In the words of Conservative MP Michael Cooper, “Either you’re completely incompetent or you were willfully blind. There is nothing in your record to indicate you’re incompetent. The only conclusion is you were wilfully blind.”

The rest at the above link

 

[Ron in Regina]

Ironically….Wilful Blindness also happens to be the title of investigative journalist Sam Cooper’s (no relation to the MP) essential book on “how a network of narcos, tycoons and CCP agents infiltrated the West.”

Cooper’s reporting for Global News has led the way in uncovering Beijing’s foreign interference efforts. The ongoing theme in his work, and Tuesday’s hearing, is that not knowing in the face of plentiful evidence is a choice. And make no mistake, there was plenty of evidence regarding Beijing’s intentions in the West by the time that fateful $200,000 donation came about.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Ironically….Wilful Blindness also happens to be the title of investigative journalist Sam Cooper’s (no relation to the MP) essential book on “how a network of narcos, tycoons and CCP agents infiltrated the West.”

Cooper’s reporting for Global News has led the way in uncovering Beijing’s foreign interference efforts. The ongoing theme in his work, and Tuesday’s hearing, is that not knowing in the face of plentiful evidence is a choice. And make no mistake, there was plenty of evidence regarding Beijing’s intentions in the West by the time that fateful $200,000 donation came about.

How is ol' Wil these days?

 

[Ron in Regina]

The prime minister's brother insisted to members of Parliament on Wednesday that the Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation has not been part of any foreign interference attempts by China, as the organization continues to be dogged by questions about controversial donations.

"I must insist there was no foreign interference, no possibility of interference, no intention or means of interference at or in the Trudeau Foundation," he told the House of Commons ethics committee. "This is a waste of time."

Trudeau (the Brother) defended the fact that his signature appeared on a cheque used to make the donation, saying he had signing authority at the foundation and he felt it was appropriate to play that role for a gift that was intended to honour his father.

PM's brother denies Trudeau Foundation was involved in foreign interference — The Canadian Press

OTTAWA - The prime minister's brother insisted to members of Parliament on Wednesday that the Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation has not been part of any foreign interference attempts by China, as the organization continues to be dogged by questions about controversial donations.

apple.news

Question period on Wednesday saw opposition parties levelling a second straight day of attacks on what the government did and didn’t know about allegations of Chinese threats against a sitting member of parliament, and accusations that the government is spending more time ducking questions than answering them.

“It’s impossible to believe that the prime minister would not have received such information,” said Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre during Wednesday’s session.

“So either he did not know and he’s incompetent, or he did know and he’s dishonest.”

Rising in response to Poilievre’s question, Public Safety Minister Marco Mendicino said Chong received a briefing from CSIS on Wednesday, adding that all threats made against members of parliament are taken seriously.

“We’re going to continue to work to protect everyone who works in this chamber, to protect our democratic institutions,” Mendicino said in French.

Rising again, Poilievre said that his question was intended for the prime minister — who wasn’t in the house for question period — and not Mendicino, whom he described as the PM’s “incompetent minister.”

“The former head of CSIS indicates that a briefing note with explosive revelations about a threat against the family of a member of parliament would have been brought to the prime minister’s top advisers, and his top advisers said that everything is brought to (the prime minister,)” Poilievre said.

“It is impossible to believe that he was not made aware of these threats two years ago when they were documented by his own intelligence services.”

Bloc Québécois Leader Yves-François Blanchet accused the prime minister of being both irresponsible and imprudent to invoke his lack of knowledge over the affair, while also placing the blame on CSIS.

“Heaven knows, as a sovereigntist, that is not a small comment,” Blanchet remarked in French, continuing to ask if the prime minister, Special RapaNui David Johnston, and 2021 foreign interference report author Morris Rosenberg were made aware of the allegations.

Mendicino’s second straight day of ducking questions mirrored the rare show of opposition solidarity that occurred during question period on Tuesday, with the Conservatives, NDP and Bloc Québécois all pressing both the prime minister and the public safety minister for answers.

“The Beijing government targeted a member of this house, and not only targeted the member, but the member’s family,” NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh remarked on Tuesday. “The prime minister knew about this, but did nothing. Frankly, I’m disappointed — this goes beyond partisan politics, this is about the ability for people in this house to be able to vote their conscience.”

Singh, along with other opposition MPs, spent both days repeatedly — and fruitlessly — asking what the Liberals knew about Chinese operatives targeting Chong’s family.

The public safety minister avoided Chong’s questions about when Mendicino’s office found out about the allegations, instead praising the Liberal government’s initiatives meant to increase “transparency and accountability” surrounding public servants tasked with protecting classified information.

Questions from deputy Conservative party leader Melissa Lantsman, Luc Berthold, Pierre Paul-Hus, Gérard Deltell, and Jasraj Singh Hallan — the latter receiving admonishment the speaker for describing Mendicino as “gutless” — got similar responses from Mendicino, including accusations that the previous Stephen Harper government were somehow to blame???

Stephen Harper is three election and a decade ago. Isn’t it time to stop blaming the previous-previous-previous government? Guess they can’t blame the previous Gov’t, or the previous-previous Gov’t….

Poilievre slams Trudeau as Mendicino continues to dodge questions on foreign interference — National Post

'Either he did not know and he's incompetent, or he did know and he's dishonest'

apple.news

Uh Oh….Mendocino….So is Stephen Harper also responsible for the last decade of other Trudeau scandals and ethics violations? Maybe…I guess….

Here’s MP Chong about this himself:

Conservative MP Michael Chong says feds did not brief him on alleged threats to his family in China

China sanctioned Chong in 2021, barring him from entering the county and prohibiting Chinese citizens from conducting business with him

nationalpost.com

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

“It’s impossible to believe that the prime minister would not have received such information,” said Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre during Wednesday’s session.

“So either he did not know and he’s incompetent, or he did know and he’s dishonest.”

So which is it? I know, I know, to Conservatives it's both. He knew and he didn't know.

 

[Ron in Regina]

So which is it? I know, I know, to Conservatives it's both. He knew and he didn't know.

Instead of telling others what their opinion must be, out of curiosity, how about telling what your opinion is on this…whatever this is?

 

[55Mercury]

Instead of telling others what their opinion must be, out of curiosity, how about telling what your opinion is on this…whatever this is?

yeah, Sir Chirpsalot!

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Instead of telling others what their opinion must be, out of curiosity, how about telling what your opinion is on this…whatever this is?

Until somebody comes up with a prima facie case that a law was broken, it's just political bad-mouthing. I thought you might have gathered that from my repeated questions about exactly what was done, and whether what was done broke an actual law.

Clear enough?

 

[Ron in Regina]

Until somebody comes up with a prima facie case that a law was broken, it's just political bad-mouthing. I thought you might have gathered that from my repeated questions about exactly what was done, and whether what was done broke an actual law.

Clear enough?

I wasn’t trying to be a dick. I was actually asking what your opinion on the topic was. Oh well. I’ll come back to this when I have more time in the evening.

 

[55Mercury]

yeah, Sir Chirpsalot!

it's great when we can be dicks without even trying!

;?)

 

[Ron in Regina]

Until somebody comes up with a prima facie case that a law was broken, it's just political bad-mouthing. I thought you might have gathered that from my repeated questions about exactly what was done, and whether what was done broke an actual law.

Clear enough?

We get our news from the newspapers. Currently there is no published prima facie case, so we’re all just trying to share information, or at least I am.

If there wasn’t a fire behind this smoke, they probably wouldn’t be discussing expelling Chinese diplomats over this.

Canada summons China’s ambassador as it considers expelling diplomats over targeting of MP — The Globe and Mail

‘All options are on the table,’ said Foreign Affairs Minister Mélanie Joly, who also warned of potential retaliation from Beijing

apple.news

Canada has summoned China’s ambassador over revelations Beijing was targeting Conservative MP Michael Chong and his family, Foreign Affairs Minister Mélanie Joly says.

She told MPs on the Commons foreign affairs committee that the Canadian government is also taking stock of what blowback it would face were it to expel any Chinese diplomats.

Ms. Joly said Canada is still mulling how to respond.

“What we’re doing right now as a government is we’re assessing the consequences that we’ll be facing in case of diplomatic expulsion,” she said.

She said David Morrison, the deputy minister of foreign affairs, was meeting with Chinese envoy Cong Peiwu Thursday morning on the matter.

Ms. Joly warned MPs that Beijing will strike back if Canada acts, etc…