Quit picking on the Shiny Pony

[Colpy]

I appreciate you pushing your agenda where you presume to show some contradiction between the Liberal Party of 2001 and today's Liberal Party. Notwithstanding your mega-reach, it's clear you have quite the skewed understanding of R2P and its origins.The 2001 ICISS process/report was the result of an international commission initiated by the Goverment of Canada (not the Liberal Party of Canada) in response to 1999/2000 initiatives made by then UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan. Of the 12 international members of that ICISS commmision, there were 2 Canadians... by the by, one of those two was Michael Ignatieff. In any case, there is a long protacted path between that 2001 ICISS commission report and the adoption... but still ongoing debate concerning R2P, within the UN.

!

You really are a Liberal!!

Your response to the Liberal promotion of R2P now is "But....... but .......but......... We didn't really MEAN it!,and besides, it wasn't just us"....when YES, the Liberal Party of Canada WAS both the gov't of Canada and the driving force behind R2P.

And YES, you didn't really mean it.....you Liberals are simply ball-less scum..............poor D'Allaire fell for it all.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

And YES, you didn't really mean it.....you Liberals are simply ball-less scum.

Well, I certainly hope half of them are!

 

[Colpy]

apparently not... you can't seem to accept his principled stand so you go off on a slagging mission... and good on ya for dragging gun control into the mix!

You have reading comprehension problems??

I said I do like Irwin Cotler, and praised his actions as a principled Liberal (a VERY rare beast)

Then I pointed out where he has been wrong, and said those errors have degraded (not eliminated) my respect for him, which was clearly pointed out at the first of the post.

If you think pointing out errors are a "slagging mission" perhaps you should withdraw from debate before you hurt yourself.

 

[Corduroy]

Well, I certainly hope half of them are!

We hope, but probably not.

 

[waldo]

You really are a Liberal!!

Your response to the Liberal promotion of R2P now is "But....... but .......but......... We didn't really MEAN it!,and besides, it wasn't just us"....when YES, the Liberal Party of Canada WAS both the gov't of Canada and the driving force behind R2P.

And YES, you didn't really mean it.....you Liberals are simply ball-less scum..............poor D'Allaire fell for it all.

like I said... your agenda! Like I said, you clearly don't understand R2P or its origins. Again, the ICISS was an international commission... with 2 of the 12 members Canadian. As I said, there's been a long protracted... and convoluted... path from the 2001 ICISS commission report and the standing of R2P (still debated) within the UN today. Fitting your agenda you presume to suggest some contradiction between the refusal of the Opposition parties to support Harper's war and positions on R2P. Do you ever engage in differing viewpoint discussion without resorting to your vitriol/insult? Is this your read-reach when you're so flustered, as you clearly are?

You have reading comprehension problems??

I said I do like Irwin Cotler, and praised his actions as a principled Liberal (a VERY rare beast)

Then I pointed out where he has been wrong, and said those errors have degraded (not eliminated) my respect for him, which was clearly pointed out at the first of the post.

If you think pointing out errors are a "slagging mission" perhaps you should withdraw from debate before you hurt yourself.

this latest post simply reinforces what I said. You choose to not accept Cotler can have, can take, a principled stance... one that differs from you. Instead you choose to denigrate him to the point of emphasizing you have less respect for him... effectively less respect for him... and his principled stance.

 

[Colpy]

like I said... your agenda! Like I said, you clearly don't understand R2P or its origins. Again, the ICISS was an international commission... with 2 of the 12 members Canadian. As I said, there's been a long protracted... and convoluted... path from the 2001 ICISS commission report and the standing of R2P (still debated) within the UN today. Fitting your agenda you presume to suggest some contradiction between the refusal of the Opposition parties to support Harper's war and positions on R2P. Do you ever engage in differing viewpoint discussion without resorting to your vitriol/insult? Is this your read-reach when you're so flustered, as you clearly are?

.

Sonny, your ability to avoid reality is most impressive.

Who created the ICISS?

It was created in 2000 by the Liberal gov't of Canada.

Why did they do so?

They did so specifically to bring R2P to the attention of the world, and to make it an international commitment.

Reality is a wonderful thing. You should try engaging with it some time.

this latest post simply reinforces what I said. You choose to not accept Cotler can have, can take, a principled stance... one that differs from you. Instead you choose to denigrate him to the point of emphasizing you have less respect for him... effectively less respect for him... and his principled stance.

You DO have Reading Comprehension problems.

I said I respect Cotler. The only reason I would say that is that he does take principled stands, and unlike most other Liberals, actually understands that people can disagree with him and still be "real" Canadians.

That does not mean that he sits at the right hand of God and is infallible

Let me make it easy for you.

See Mr. Cotler.

See Mr. Cotler speak. honestly.

See Colpy.

See Colpy like Mr. Cotler.

See Mr. Cotler be wrong.

See Colpy say Mr. Cotler is wrong.

See Colpy still like Mr. Cotler.

Got it now?

 

[CDNBear]

you can claim to discard whatever makes you feel better... none of your selective fantasy reading takes away anything from what I quoted or from what Cotler intended in his writing.!

...

Sonny, your ability to avoid reality is most impressive.

I'm glad I'm not the only one to notice that.

 

[SLM]

Let me make it easy for you.

See Mr. Cotler.

See Mr. Cotler speak. honestly.

See Colpy.

See Colpy like Mr. Cotler.

See Mr. Cotler be wrong.

See Colpy say Mr. Cotler is wrong.

See Colpy still like Mr. Cotler.

Got it now?

Oh Colpy, a valiant attempt but I think the first grade level that you're attempting may need to be dumbed down a shade or two.

Perhaps something with pictures?

 

[DaSleeper]

Ideologues like Waldo have a very narrow field of view......

 

[Locutus]

 

[waldo]

Sonny, your ability to avoid reality is most impressive.

Who created the ICISS?

It was created in 2000 by the Liberal gov't of Canada.

Why did they do so?

They did so specifically to bring R2P to the attention of the world, and to make it an international commitment.

Reality is a wonderful thing. You should try engaging with it some time.

like I said, like I'll keep saying, you don't know jack about the origins of R2P. Conceptually it began to be talked of after 94 Rwanda; and again, the 2001 ICISS International commission was a direct result of prior 1999 and 2000 initiatives on R2P by former UN Secretary Kofi Annan. Quit your blustering and check your history! Notwithstanding, of course, the commission simply authored a report; it took another decade before R2P began to be solidified within the UN, despite it still being debated within the UN today. By the by, good on ya for coming around and distinguishing between the Liberal Party and the Government of Canada in your most sketchy R2P history revisionism.

You DO have Reading Comprehension problems.

no - I work with what you give me. As I said, you can't accept he took a principled stand, you don't accept his principled stand... apparently, as he doesn't agree with YOU, he's wrong... and as you say, as I said, his principled stand has you degrading any (supposed) respect you had for Cotler. As you said, specifically said:

... and he is absolutely wrong on ISIS and the proper role for Canada in the R2P. This has degraded my respect for him.

gee, you went a long way to reinforce you apparently don't realize your own words have consequence! Carry on.

Ideologues like Waldo have a very narrow field of view......

do you have anything more than a drive-by slag?

Oh Colpy, a valiant attempt but I think the first grade level that you're attempting may need to be dumbed down a shade or two.

Perhaps something with pictures?

you're not as funny/clever as you think you are

 

[Colpy]

like I said, like I'll keep saying, you don't know jack about the origins of R2P. Conceptually it began to be talked of after 94 Rwanda; and again, the 2001 ICISS International commission was a direct result of prior 1999 and 2000 initiatives on R2P by former UN Secretary Kofi Annan. Quit your blustering and check your history! Notwithstanding, of course, the commission simply authored a report; it took another decade before R2P began to be solidified within the UN, despite it still being debated within the UN today. By the by, good on ya for coming around and distinguishing between the Liberal Party and the Government of Canada in your most sketchy R2P history revisionism.

Take your own advice:


The Canadian government established the International Commission on Intervention and State Sovereignty (ICISS) in September 2000 to answer exactly this question. In February 2001, at the third round table meeting of the ICISS in London, Gareth Evans, Mohamed Sahnoun and Michael Ignatieff suggested the phrase "responsibility to protect" as a way to avoid the "right to intervene" or "obligation to intervene" doctrines and yet keep a degree of duty to act to resolve humanitarian crises.[14]
In 2001, ICISS released a report titled ‘The Responsibility to Protect’. In a radical reformulation of the meaning of state sovereignty, the report argued that sovereignty not only entailed rights, but also responsibilities, specifically a state’s responsibility to protect its people from major violations of human rights. This idea rested on earlier work by Francis Deng and Roberta Cohen....."

Responsibility to protect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

no - I work with what you give me.

Actually, it becomes ever clearer that you are intellectually incapable of "working" with anything outside of your own delusions.

 

[waldo]

Take your own advice:
Responsibility to protect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Actually, it becomes ever clearer that you are intellectually incapable of "working" with anything outside of your own delusions.

oh great! Another wiki-whiz kid! And more of your go-to insult stream. Nothing in that wiki write-up counters anything I've said on the origins of R2P. As I said, your words have consequence, particularly when you presume to quote out of context:

The Canadian government established theInternational Commission on Intervention and State Sovereignty (ICISS) in September 2000 to answer exactly this question.

uhhh... answer what question(s)??? You mean like, as I said, questions/statements related to R2P posed by former UN Secretary Kofi Annan in 1999/2000... you mean like questions/statements related to R2P posed by Annan and others, questions that originate back as far as 94 Rwanda? Questions/statements... like those, hey?

I guess one could have an image throwdown!

 

[gerryh]

what it comes down to, is CANADA formed ICISS and commissioned the R2P. The Liberals were in power with Chretien at the Helm.


As for Colpy's contentions concerning Liberal abandonment........ Chretien and the Liberal party made it quite clear what the Party would support. They did not support the u.s. coalition's unprovoked attack on Iraq, but had no problem with the Nato answer to 9/11. At this time, yes, I would say that the Liberal party under Trudeau is acting more like the pansy a$$ed NDP rather than the proud Liberal Party I grew up with.

 

[DaSleeper]

do you have anything more than a drive-by slag?

That's all narrow-minded ideologues deserve.....
You are in no way interested in discussion... just pontification!


You just poo poo every other opinion you come across


This forum has a good search engine......I looked and can't find a single post of yours where you agree with something someone else said...
That is not debate!

 

[waldo]

what it comes down to, is CANADA formed ICISS and commissioned the R2P. The Liberals were in power with Chretien at the Helm.

the point was ICISS didn't form from a vacumn... R2P (sometimes in variant names) was discussed from the point of 94 Rwanda on; again, ICISS was a direct result of R2P questions/statements... challenge, no less, from former UN Secretary Kofi Annan in 1999 & 2000.

As for Colpy's contentions concerning Liberal abandonment........ Chretien and the Liberal party made it quite clear what the Party would support. They did not support the u.s. coalition's unprovoked attack on Iraq, but had no problem with the Nato answer to 9/11. At this time, yes, I would say that the Liberal party under Trudeau is acting more like the pansy a$$ed NDP rather than the proud Liberal Party I grew up with.

both Opposition parties have clearly laid out the problems with Harper's war... and how he refused to be transparent and forthcoming in specifics/details related to the "immediate" and relatively longer-term roles for Canada. None of that has anything directly to do with any presumptive response to R2P... notwithstanding R2P doesn't presume on military action as the first line or isolated line of recourse; nor does it require any nation to assume a combat role in that 'responsibility'. If you want to speak of sanctioned involvement, is the U.S. asking it's Iraqi puppet to request assistance... sanctioned involvment? Is this end-around to bomb Syria... sanctioned involvment?

This forum has a good search engine......I looked and can't find a single post of yours where you agree with something someone else said...

I appreciate you're clearly uneasy with opinion/statement that differs from your personal comfort level.

 

[DaSleeper]

I appreciate you're clearly uneasy with opinion/statement that differs from your personal comfort level.

You're very good at projecting your own shortcomings on others!

 

[gerryh]

both Opposition parties have clearly laid out the problems with Harper's war... and how he refused to be transparent and forthcoming in specifics/details related to the "immediate" and relatively longer-term roles for Canada. .

Both opposition party's? Oh, you mean the NDP and Justin with his head up their a$$.




As for transparency, It's a military operation, dumba$$. The Chretien Liberals weren't anymore "transparent" when it came to Canada's exact roll in Afghanistan. Or are you of the opinion. like the NDP and obviously Justin, that the boys that we send over there aren't worth the security?

 

[Colpy]

oh great! Another wiki-whiz kid! And more of your go-to insult stream. Nothing in that wiki write-up counters anything I've said on the origins of R2P. As I said, your words have consequence, particularly when you presume to quote out of context:

If you think this is an academic exercise with strict source rules, then you are even more of an imbecile than I thought. And that is not an easy level to reach.

You REALLY need to take a course in Reading Comprehension, if you can deal with it.

And yep, I'm slagging you, because you are an arrogant, idiotic ar$ehole that deserves no respect.

I thought I should tell you I'm slagging you, as you don't have the intellect to figure it out on your own.....as shown by your belief that I was slagging Irwin Cotler.

uhhh... answer what question(s)??? You mean like, as I said, questions/statements related to R2P posed by former UN Secretary Kofi Annan in 1999/2000... you mean like questions/statements related to R2P posed by Annan and others, questions that originate back as far as 94 Rwanda? Questions/statements... like those, hey?

Kofi Annan??

You mean the guy RESPONSIBLE for letting the Rwandan genocide happen?

When he visited Rwanda, the people lined the streets.....and as his motorcade approached, they pointedly turned their backs on him, as he had on them.

R2P was NOT inspired by the UN and Annan, but by Canada and D'Allaire.

Idiot.

Both you and Annan.

 

[gerryh]

If you think this is an academic exercise with strict source rules, then you are even more of an imbecile than I thought. And that is not an easy level to reach.

You REALLY need to take a course in Reading Comprehension, if you can deal with it.

And yep, I'm slagging you, because you are an arrogant, idiotic ar$ehole that deserves no respect.

I thought I should tell you I'm slagging you, as you don't have the intellect to figure it out on your own.....as shown by your belief that I was slagging Irwin Cotler.



Kofi Annan??

You mean the guy RESPONSIBLE for letting the Rwandan genocide happen?

When he visited Rwanda, the people lined the streets.....and as his motorcade approached, they pointedly turned their backs on him, as he had on them.

R2P was NOT inspired by the UN and Annan, but by Canada and D'Allaire.

Idiot.

Both you and Annan.

ROFLMFAO..... you do know that you're wasting your time.