Quebec shouldn't separate from Canada

[no1important]

RE: Quebec shouldn't sepa

And yes, a country named Québec would be very like Sweden, Norway etc...
And the separatist political movement, BQ and PQ, is not hiding that they are influenced by their models.

I think the "third world" argument is very unrealistic. Quebec would most likely be a country comparable to northern European countries like Sweden, Norway, Danemark etc. It's not like we would close our doors to the rest of the world you know..

What resources do you have? You got a deal to steal power (and money) from NFLD, you guys get huge sums of money from the feds via transfer payments and other forms. You guys can not do it on your own.

There is french culture in areas all over Canada, we are forced to have french on all the goods we buy, but you guys call out the language police if English is on anything in Quebec.

You guys do not want to leave as you can never manage on your own, your just "black mailing" the feds, and it always works.

Fact is I am 37 and Quebec will never seperate in my lifetime. So get used to it.

Maybe you should start treating the rest of Canada like friends instead of always viewing us as evil enemies. It is us that has been supporting Quebec and Quebec companies for as long as I can remember. But that is fine. You guys are Canadians and we support you (transfer payments). Quebec is just a distinct society as Natives and Acadians etc... Were all Canadians first and we should work together to make Canada a better place for everyone.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

First of all, "Québec" and "Québécois" needs "é"'s, whether you speak french or not.

Sorry dude, I've got no accent e gout on my keyboard... :wink:

Now as to the Quebec separation issue. I've heard those same arguments all my life, both for and against separation...

However, one thing that the Quebecois have never had the courtesy of providing is a comprehensive list of grievances that would necessitate their secession from the confederacy.

Generally, after hours of discussion, it boils down to the simple fact that the Quebecois view themselves as different...well that doesn't quite cut it...all provinces have differences, and yet they are able to get along...the First Nations people are distinct, and yet they are able to, for the most part, get along with the rest of Canada...

So, for the Quebecois here, that feel that separation from Canada is the only option, perhaps you could provide a list of actual grievances, and we can discuss each point in turn...

Thank you, and have a nice day... 8)

 

[cub1c]

Re: RE: Quebec shouldn't sepa

I think the "third world" argument is very unrealistic. Quebec would most likely be a country comparable to northern European countries like Sweden, Norway, Danemark etc. It's not like we would close our doors to the rest of the world you know..

What resources do you have?

...we are forced to have french on all the goods we buy...

...your just "black mailing" the feds...

...Quebec will never seperate in my lifetime. So get used to it.

...always viewing us as evil enemies.

...It is us that has been supporting Quebec.[/quote]

With these really contestable arguments you provide (close to non-sense stupidity, which doesnt deserve an awnser), is the best example of why the independance of Québec will be dealt within our province and nowhere else.

 

[cub1c]

First of all, "Québec" and "Québécois" needs "é"'s, whether you speak french or not.

Sorry dude, I've got no accent e gout on my keyboard... :wink:

Its allright

As for the greviance, please take a look at the history of the independance movement, you will see plenty! I know it's hard to find those things in English (duh!), so I'll do some research for you.

It's not a matter of what we can't do within Canada, it's a matter of what we could do outside.

cub1c's dreaming.......
free school system (at least having this as a goal)...REALLY strict rules agaisnt pollution (at least following Kyoto!)...wind energy around the country (its proven we have a BIG wind ressource)...kissing wal-marts ass goodbye...business not being allowed more rights than a citizen...promoting really hard responsible consuming (which is already becoming a trend)...marijuana would have been legal 30 years ago when it was time (maybe we would'nt be stock with Hell's Angels in our backyard today)...voting age would be 16...
stopping being Georgies follower (even if you pretend not to be)...hey look! Paul's waving us hello from good old Texas! Having a women as a Prime Minister?

And it would really amaze me that the majority of Canada views us as friends. If people think that way, its probably that they have been in coma for a long time, or simply hyprocrits.

But hey, I'm not pointing my finger at anybody here because you're all mature and intelligent people. But don't tell me you don't know some.

You know what they say about dumb frenchies.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

You know what they say about dumb frenchies.

Probably much the same thing they say about dumb anglos... 8)

 

[cub1c]

You know what they say about dumb frenchies.

Probably much the same thing they say about dumb anglos... 8)

You would really be suprised how being bilangual(? haha) is seen as a quality.

On another note, do you know what a French-only speaking feels like in Québec?

 

[Vanni Fucci]

No sorry, I've only known bi-lingual people from Quebec...

 

[cub1c]

I know, that's why it's seen as a major problem.

 

[jackd]

Fucci:

perhaps you could provide a list of actual grievances, and we can discuss each point in turn...

Does this forum allows for a 7 pages answer to your question?

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Ok, that may be so cub1c, but how can one know what the problem is, unless it's been voiced to us...whether it be in french, which we can then translate, or whether it be translated to english and then presented, the issues need to be discussed rationally.

I keep reading about how Quebec feels snubbed by the feds, but I personally don't see it...and I would welcome the chance to know the issues, from a francophone perspective, that have them so upset...

 

[cub1c]

Don't underestimate us, it's very well documented..... in French haha.

 

[cub1c]

It's not about how francophones feels, it's about how Quebecers feels. And I must say that lots of anglophone Quebecers shares the same goals, values and culture of francophone Quebecers, but those who don't are really tearing our province appart because they are still stuck in the language debate.

 

[cub1c]

If you want to know the real issue, I'm there.

My parents are francophone quebecers, went to school in French, live in French, mostly French only speaking friends, learned English through school, the Simpsons and the Internet. I think I'm a pretty good voice.

Even if I understand what you are saying Vanni Fucci, but what if we put it the other way?

Let's say, instead of telling us to integrate the rest of the Canada, why don't integrate the rest of the Canada into Quebec? Sounds utopian.

I don't think Canada is ready to declare French the only official language of the country.

 

[shamus11]

I get the feeling as a result of the Gomery inquiry, that Quebec will have referendum number three within a few years.

Chretien's Clarity Act will be put to the test.

Politicians do not act, they react.

We live in interesting times.

 

[cub1c]

If a Canada, a civilized and advance country, can't accept the wish of independance of their own citizens, it gives out a really poor message to parts of the world that are ready to fight and die for theirs.

 

[cub1c]

Re: RE: Quebec shouldn't separate from Canada

Thanks shamus11 for point out that Gomery commission, which is broadcast each day, all day, by one of our French CNN (LCN), and followed from the beginning to the end by an average of 150,000 people. But that inquiry should have his own thread.

We live in interesting times.

That is so true.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

But that's exactly where you lose me cub1c...why would francophones want to impose french as the only official language...in Canada, both french and english are equally recognized as the official languages...I have not heard that the federal government has designs to abolish french as one of the official languages, have you?

According to this site:

The British did restrict the french language at various times throughout Canada's history, but that was during a time when British colonialism was imposing all sorts of restrictions on a lot of things...

The Constitution Act of 1982, and Sections 16-22 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees that french has equal recognition as english within Canada...so how is it that francophones feel that their identity is being threatened? If they are able to speak either language, not both, but either, how is this unfair to the francophone community?

The francophones on the other hand, with Bill 101 have imposed the french language on those who may not necessarily know, or want to learn how to speak and read it. I see this as having no value in protecting cultural identity, but that it is merely a tactic used to snub the federal government. The fact that they invoked the Notwithstanding clause to pass this piece of legislation would seem to support that viewpoint.

I've not had the privalege to read, or hear how the federal government has tried to marginalize the cultural identity of Quebecers...

The author of this faq makes many such unsubstantiated claims...

 

[Vanni Fucci]

...another question I have is what would happen to those, both francophones, and anglophones, that do not want to separate from Canada. Would a sovereign republic of Quebec deport them, or force them into linguistic compliance?

Many of the people that do not want to separate have businesses, and homes there. Would the Quebec government, relocate and compensate the federalists?

 

[cub1c]

Please don't do the feds game of putting your heads in the sand.

Writing on papers that French and English are equals is ("/$*.

By stating that Québec 's official language are English and French, it is clearly saying this to newcomers: you can learn French or English, or both, but because you are in North America, you should learn English.

The francophones on the other hand, with Bill 101 have imposed the french language on those who may not necessarily know, or want to learn how to speak and read it. I see this as having no value in protecting cultural identity

Stating clearly that Québec is French, so that newcomers learns our language to communicate with us so we can both benefit from both culture is having no value in protecting cultural identity?

It is already happening and it causes a great effect to Quebecers, but not enough. Not like it should be.

I've not had the privalege to read, or hear how the federal government has tried to marginalize the cultural identity of Quebecers...

It is because you can't see or hear it, you just feel it.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Please don't do the feds game of putting your heads in the sand.

I'm not putting anything in the sand, cub1c...I'm trying to empathize with the plight of the Quebecois...but I gotta be honest with you here...what I'm feeling so far is that all separtists want to do is abolish english as a language in your province, and force the anglophones out...and that pisses me off, because Canada is not about that...and like it or not, you are still a Canadian citizen, and enjoy many benefits because of it, but you, like every other Canadian, are bound by the obligations of that citizenship...