Quebec shouldn't separate from Canada

[JEmMOWlY]

Hi,
I'm living in Montreal. I'm not going to talk about seperation or who is right or who is wrong.
But I think a national unity means that one should know its own country well. Quebec may have a different culture, different foods, different movies musics... That's right. And honestly Franco Canadian singers are recognized more than Anglo Canadian singers in the french communities than anglos in english communities.
The two parts of this country has a lack of connection and communication. I'm not even a quebecois or anything and I'm not supporting sovergnity but quebec has its own values, own culture . By culture I don't mean language but music and arts. How many of you had heard of Celine Dion before she started singing in English. Have you ever heard Corneille? Linda Lemay? ... and many others.These people are representing this country outside Canada and I don't think they ever got appreciated by any Canadians outside of Quebec.

Bottom line is, get to know your country. Having two languages in one country is the coolest thing in the world.to Quebecors: I know some of you think that as many people speak English it's gonna get faster to destroy French. No! being bilingual just gonna put you one step ahead then France.
Others: Other than complanining about having French words on everything you buy, why don't you ever attempt to learn French. English may be the most recognized language in the world but you're Canadian and you should learn French too. Because this maple leaf symbolizes both languages. And this what makes us different from the Americans.

Just get to know Quebec. Not only its politics but its music its recognition. Same for Quebecoises, get to know other parts. Once you like each other and start learning about others, sovernigty won't bother you that much.

 

[JEmMOWlY]

TO UBERGOD?

What do u mean missing it or not missing it? A country that can't keep itself as a whole means that this country has a lot of way to go! It doesn't matter if Quebec, BC, or Nova Scotia gets sepearted. It doesn't matter if you miss it or not. This is just not right!

 

[BlueCrusader]

The reason why Quebec wants to seperate from Canada is because they feel that their culture is being jeporadized by their Anglophone neighbours. THis is an attempt to keep Quebec, well, Quebec. I think it's silly that certain Quebecers would want this because if they indeed seperated from Canada, then the general Canadian student wouldn't have to learn French anymore. Also, Quebec will be an isolated French community. In order to communicate with their neighbours, Quebec students would have to learn English. Quebec's attempt to preserve its culture will ultimately backfire if its separation is imposed.

 

[Knightman]

Constitution Act, 1867.

Four Provinces 5. Canada shall be divided into Four Provinces, named Ontario, Quebec, Nova Scotia, and New Brunswick

Source:
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/const/c1867_e.html#executive

Canada was designed around these four provinces in 1867. The act set in place a federal governing structure modeled after the British parliamentary system and under the guidance of the Queen of England.

A very brief history lesson but what is the bottom line of this, the PROVINCES banded together to create the country of Canada and the Provinces should still have a great deal of power in determining their own coarse. Quebec is the only one that has fought to keep the original arrangement. The other provinces have gradually had their powers and authority degraded by an ever growing, power hungry federal government. The two world wars saw an increase in federal taxation levels and since that time the federal government have clawed more and more out of the provinces which actually make up the population of this country. The federal government has NO land area or population of its own to govern. Over the coarse of our history we have let the federal government increase its powers regardless of what political party banner flew over Ottawa.

If we wish to repair some of the very basic problems in this country the first place to look and look hard is the structure of our federal government, it is there to service and serve the provinces that make up this country not the other way around.

This thread is simply an extension of the same discussions that take place on many forum boards and the same things are repeated over and over again but very few have actually come up with a solid coarse of action to actually bring about changes we seem dumbfounded to actually figure our way to a better system. Why. because in all federal elections the political hopefuls show up at our doors attempting to promote their particular brand of politics and requesting your support we do nothing but listen and then a percentage of us wander to the polling booths and mark a few X's the wheel goes around again and only the some issues are dealt with and they attempt to patch up other issues by throwing out our tax dollars in an attempt to deal with much bigger problems. It is a reactionary cycle , ineffective and self serving, not in the best interests of Canada.

It is very easy to criticise and complain but it seems very difficult to see the solutions and bring them into affect.

As many of you know I have proposed a solution package, certainly not perfect, but it was meant as a starting place for discussion and many of you have added excellent ideas into the mix, let us not give up. We, meaning those of us interested enough and knowledgeable enough to actually come to these forum boards to discuss these matters are the ones that should be leading the parade towards real and positive change.

(Shamus11, I need a classic parade poem here).

Mabey the trick is to put together a proposal, everyone print out tons of copies all over Canada, in every province in Canada send a copy to your federal MP and this next election hand it to every candidate that shows up at the door.

((We really do not care what your party has to say or thinks it will do, if you want to get elected and keep your seat in the House of Commons this is what you will be doing. You have five years, get on it. By the way I only vote for independent candidates))

If we do not do something just short of an all out revolution we have no hope of turning Canada around.

Think People.................

 

[no1important]

RE: Quebec shouldn't sepa

Would you as a resident of the Lower mainland necessarily "miss" Prince George or Vancouver Island is they suddenly ceased to be part of BC? Probably not

I would. But maybe I am the exception? I love going to the Island to fish and just spend a weekend and go to the horse races or take in the sights of Victoria.

I also like Prince George, I think it is a nice city and has good fishing and camping around there.

I like to travel BC a lot and I have been all through this province and there is nowhere on the planet that compares to beautiful BC. The kootney's, Vancouver Island and the Gulf Islands are a couple of my favourite places. As is Babine lake.

DasFX you should come out here. Believe me there is lots to see and do and not just fishing, but winery tours, sight seeing, nature trips, rafting on the Thompson and Fraser is something else, skiing etc.

Each province is special in its own way and we should all work together to make Canada the greatest country on the planet instead of all this petty fighting that seems to go on between people of diferent provinces.

 

[bluealberta]

Re: RE: Quebec shouldn't separate from Canada

Hi,
I'm living in Montreal. I'm not going to talk about seperation or who is right or who is wrong.
But I think a national unity means that one should know its own country well. Quebec may have a different culture, different foods, different movies musics... That's right. And honestly Franco Canadian singers are recognized more than Anglo Canadian singers in the french communities than anglos in english communities.
The two parts of this country has a lack of connection and communication. I'm not even a quebecois or anything and I'm not supporting sovergnity but quebec has its own values, own culture . By culture I don't mean language but music and arts. How many of you had heard of Celine Dion before she started singing in English. Have you ever heard Corneille? Linda Lemay? ... and many others.These people are representing this country outside Canada and I don't think they ever got appreciated by any Canadians outside of Quebec.

Bottom line is, get to know your country. Having two languages in one country is the coolest thing in the world.to Quebecors: I know some of you think that as many people speak English it's gonna get faster to destroy French. No! being bilingual just gonna put you one step ahead then France.
Others: Other than complanining about having French words on everything you buy, why don't you ever attempt to learn French. English may be the most recognized language in the world but you're Canadian and you should learn French too. Because this maple leaf symbolizes both languages. And this what makes us different from the Americans.

Just get to know Quebec. Not only its politics but its music its recognition. Same for Quebecoises, get to know other parts. Once you like each other and start learning about others, sovernigty won't bother you that much.

I used to think like that, and took three years of French in High School, and could actually carry on a fairly decent conversation if I had to and the french speaking person spoke slow enough :wink:
The problem was that as I did not have the opportunity to use it, I lost the skill, and as I got older, it really did not seem worthwhile to upgrade, for the same reason: I would not use it. And I was right. Years later, I still would not use it.

The real issue some have is the perception, right or wrong, that french is being "shoved down our throats". The other issue relates to your language laws, and maybe that is just perception too. Hearing things like no English signs is disturbing, just as it would be disturbing to you if Alberta all of a sudden said no French signs in any commercial establishment. The most absurd thing I heard was an English couple from Manitoba moved to Quebec, and wanted to put their kids in English school, but because the kids had been in French immersion classes in Manitoba, they were classified as French, and had no choice but to enroll in a french school. As this was reported in the news, I admit that the whole story may not have been told, but regardless, there is another perception.

Anyway,while having and knowing two languages may be desireable, the reality is somewhat different, in that knowing and using are not necessarily compatible.

 

[Cathou]

Re: RE: Quebec shouldn't separate from Canada

... Hearing things like no English signs is disturbing, just as it would be disturbing to you if Alberta all of a sudden said no French signs in any commercial establishment...

come on, that thing is indecently exagerated. l'office de la langue française have what ? 3 inspectors for the province in whole ? lot's of buisness still have outdoor english sign, in the chinese part of thecity they even have streets with chinese only sign. Westmount even have english only road signalisation...

 

[bluealberta]

Re: RE: Quebec shouldn't separate from Canada

... Hearing things like no English signs is disturbing, just as it would be disturbing to you if Alberta all of a sudden said no French signs in any commercial establishment...

come on, that thing is indecently exagerated. l'office de la langue française have what ? 3 inspectors for the province in whole ? lot's of buisness still have outdoor english sign, in the chinese part of thecity they even have streets with chinese only sign. Westmount even have english only road signalisation...

Like I said, I think that the news reports were probably inaccurate, not that that is a surprise. The issue though is that is what is perceived, whether it is true or not. If it is not true, then it is up to Quebecois to alter the perception, just as it is up to Albertans to alter the perception that we are all wealthy, drive expensive cars, and live in expensive houses, and that the oil just flows from the ground into piplelines. In a lot of ways, Quebec and Alberta have many of the same issues, which is why, deep down, you will find a grudging respect for Quebecers from Albertans.

 

[canadapledge]

How do you see relation between Canadian Bill of Rights and Separatism? Can you be free in independent Quebec, Alberta, BC? Would you sacrifice your political freedom for National idea of Quebec or Alberta?
www.pledgecanada.com

 

[Cathou]

Re: RE: Quebec shouldn't separate from Canada

How do you see relation between Canadian Bill of Rights and Separatism? Can you be free in independent Quebec, Alberta, BC? Would you sacrifice your political freedom for National idea of Quebec or Alberta?
www.pledgecanada.com

i think that an independant quebec would adopt a constitution that give the same right that the charter. you wont have to sacrifice polital freedom for a national idea, but rather build around that freedom

 

[Nascar_James]

Re: RE: Quebec shouldn't separate from Canada

Hi,
I'm living in Montreal. I'm not going to talk about seperation or who is right or who is wrong.
But I think a national unity means that one should know its own country well. Quebec may have a different culture, different foods, different movies musics... That's right. And honestly Franco Canadian singers are recognized more than Anglo Canadian singers in the french communities than anglos in english communities.
The two parts of this country has a lack of connection and communication. I'm not even a quebecois or anything and I'm not supporting sovergnity but quebec has its own values, own culture . By culture I don't mean language but music and arts. How many of you had heard of Celine Dion before she started singing in English. Have you ever heard Corneille? Linda Lemay? ... and many others.These people are representing this country outside Canada and I don't think they ever got appreciated by any Canadians outside of Quebec.

Bottom line is, get to know your country. Having two languages in one country is the coolest thing in the world.to Quebecors: I know some of you think that as many people speak English it's gonna get faster to destroy French. No! being bilingual just gonna put you one step ahead then France.
Others: Other than complanining about having French words on everything you buy, why don't you ever attempt to learn French. English may be the most recognized language in the world but you're Canadian and you should learn French too. Because this maple leaf symbolizes both languages. And this what makes us different from the Americans.

Just get to know Quebec. Not only its politics but its music its recognition. Same for Quebecoises, get to know other parts. Once you like each other and start learning about others, sovernigty won't bother you that much.

I used to think like that, and took three years of French in High School, and could actually carry on a fairly decent conversation if I had to and the french speaking person spoke slow enough :wink:
The problem was that as I did not have the opportunity to use it, I lost the skill, and as I got older, it really did not seem worthwhile to upgrade, for the same reason: I would not use it. And I was right. Years later, I still would not use it.

The real issue some have is the perception, right or wrong, that french is being "shoved down our throats". The other issue relates to your language laws, and maybe that is just perception too. Hearing things like no English signs is disturbing, just as it would be disturbing to you if Alberta all of a sudden said no French signs in any commercial establishment. The most absurd thing I heard was an English couple from Manitoba moved to Quebec, and wanted to put their kids in English school, but because the kids had been in French immersion classes in Manitoba, they were classified as French, and had no choice but to enroll in a french school. As this was reported in the news, I admit that the whole story may not have been told, but regardless, there is another perception.

Anyway,while having and knowing two languages may be desireable, the reality is somewhat different, in that knowing and using are not necessarily compatible.

You are absolutely correct in what you heard in the news in that there is systematic discrimination against English speakers in Quebec. Even the United Nations ruled that restricting English on outdoor signs is discrimination against English speakers. When you discriminate against a community who are English speakers by ancestry, not by choice of their own, that in turn paramounts to rasism. So in effect, by restricting the English speakers in not allowing them to put up English only signs for their establisment/business, that is a violation of the civil rights of the affected citizen.

This discrimination has never affected me personally. I have lived in Montreal for over 3.5 decades (city of birth) and have always used English (no exception) in my day to day life. I could not use French even if I wanted to since I was educated in English like were so many generations of folks living in Montreal. Lots of them like myself could only speak English. Why learn French when English has always been a strong and popular language in Montreal, particularly before the 1980's. I had moved to the US in the late 90's, but not because of language (I would have easily been able to raise my kids in the West Island no problem), it was more for a conservative and traditional type lifestyle that I wanted.

 

[Cathou]

Re: RE: Quebec shouldn't separate from Canada

This discrimination has never affected me personally. I have lived in Montreal for over 3.5 decades (city of birth) and have always used English (no exception) in my day to day life. I could not use French even if I wanted to since I was educated in English like were so many generations of folks living in Montreal. Lots of them like myself could only speak English. Why learn French when English has always been a strong and popular language in Montreal, particularly before the 1980's. I had moved to the US in the late 90's, but not because of language (I would have easily been able to raise my kids in the West Island no problem), it was more for a conservative and traditional type lifestyle that I wanted.

that's why i think englishs are very treated here. i mean, any anglophone could get east of west island, and have a decent service in english, but usually, dont try to get french services there. i've seen too many time anglophones who talk to me only in english when they know french very well. at least most, not all but most francophone will try to respond in english to someone who talk to them in english if they can

 

[bluealberta]

Re: RE: Quebec shouldn't separate from Canada

This discrimination has never affected me personally. I have lived in Montreal for over 3.5 decades (city of birth) and have always used English (no exception) in my day to day life. I could not use French even if I wanted to since I was educated in English like were so many generations of folks living in Montreal. Lots of them like myself could only speak English. Why learn French when English has always been a strong and popular language in Montreal, particularly before the 1980's. I had moved to the US in the late 90's, but not because of language (I would have easily been able to raise my kids in the West Island no problem), it was more for a conservative and traditional type lifestyle that I wanted.

that's why i think englishs are very treated here. i mean, any anglophone could get east of west island, and have a decent service in english, but usually, dont try to get french services there. i've seen too many time anglophones who talk to me only in english when they know french very well. at least most, not all but most francophone will try to respond in english to someone who talk to them in english if they can

The reality, Cat, is that English is the language of the world, and is becoming more and more so. I dont know if this has changed, and someone please provide an update, but a few years ago there was an issue regarding air traffic controllers and pilots in Quebec, where French was supposed to be spoken, even though English is the recognised language. This caused a safety issue at the time. If it changed, good, because a local political language issue should not and cannot endanger the lives of innocent people.

While I certainly understand some of Quebecs issues, it still does not seem logical to separate from a country that provides at least some protection and consideration for the french canadian culture. By separating, and becoming an island of french in an ocean of English north america, would seem to be very counter productive.

On the other hand, I have thought for many years that the separation issue in Quebec is a mild form of extortion from the rest of Canada, which also causes resentment in the ROC simply because it has worked. I wish that the Alberta government would play the same card, quite frankly.

 

[Said1]

Re: RE: Quebec shouldn't separate from Canada

On the other hand, I have thought for many years that the separation issue in Quebec is a mild form of extortion from the rest of Canada, which also causes resentment in the ROC simply because it has worked. I wish that the Alberta government would play the same card, quite frankly.

LOL. If you can't beat'em join'em, eh? What's worse than a whinny Easterner? A whinny Westerner. Ha, I kill me!

 

[Nascar_James]

Re: RE: Quebec shouldn't separate from Canada

This discrimination has never affected me personally. I have lived in Montreal for over 3.5 decades (city of birth) and have always used English (no exception) in my day to day life. I could not use French even if I wanted to since I was educated in English like were so many generations of folks living in Montreal. Lots of them like myself could only speak English. Why learn French when English has always been a strong and popular language in Montreal, particularly before the 1980's. I had moved to the US in the late 90's, but not because of language (I would have easily been able to raise my kids in the West Island no problem), it was more for a conservative and traditional type lifestyle that I wanted.

that's why i think englishs are very treated here. i mean, any anglophone could get east of west island, and have a decent service in english, but usually, dont try to get french services there. i've seen too many time anglophones who talk to me only in english when they know french very well. at least most, not all but most francophone will try to respond in english to someone who talk to them in english if they can

Why shouldn't they be well treated? They are the ones who practically built the city!

The street names in the downtown area of Montreal reflect the folks that built the city ... examples ... Sherbrooke, Dorchester (now called Rene Leveque), St-James (now called St,Jaques), Craig (now called St.Antoine), McGill College, City Councillors, Mayor, McTavish, Metcalfe, Bishop, Crescent, Drummond, Towers, Hope, Tupper, Simpson, Mackay, Atwater, Phillips Square, Victoria Square, Mountain (now called de Montagne), Burnside (now called de Maissoneuve), St. Mark (now called St.Marc), Peel, Union, ... etc).

I wouldn't be surprised if within the next 50 or so years, the French Speakers try to re-write history again and rename all the remaining English street names in downtown Montreal to French ones. Notice I said French speakers, not seperatists, cause the Federalist French speakers are just as gulity as are the Seperatists.

 

[canadapledge]

You should know French people better, they are lovers not fighters. Hitler took Frence in couple of weeks, Quebec never supported England in the war. In Canada French took over government, bunch of lasy asses are ruling our country. Canada is not about minorities building their little China, Frence, Israil, Russian. Canada is about united minorities with National Idea of Freedom!

 

[Nascar_James]

Re: RE: Quebec shouldn't separate from Canada

You should know French people better, they are lovers not fighters. Hitler took Frence in couple of weeks, Quebec never supported England in the war. In Canada French took over government, bunch of lasy asses are ruling our country. Canada is not about minorities building their little China, Frence, Israil, Russian. Canada is about united minorities with National Idea of Freedom!

We seem to forget who won the war on the Plains of Abraham

 

[Numure]

Re: RE: Quebec shouldn't separate from Canada

This discrimination has never affected me personally. I have lived in Montreal for over 3.5 decades (city of birth) and have always used English (no exception) in my day to day life. I could not use French even if I wanted to since I was educated in English like were so many generations of folks living in Montreal. Lots of them like myself could only speak English. Why learn French when English has always been a strong and popular language in Montreal, particularly before the 1980's. I had moved to the US in the late 90's, but not because of language (I would have easily been able to raise my kids in the West Island no problem), it was more for a conservative and traditional type lifestyle that I wanted.

that's why i think englishs are very treated here. i mean, any anglophone could get east of west island, and have a decent service in english, but usually, dont try to get french services there. i've seen too many time anglophones who talk to me only in english when they know french very well. at least most, not all but most francophone will try to respond in english to someone who talk to them in english if they can

Why shouldn't they be well treated? They are the ones who practically built the city!

The street names in the downtown area of Montreal reflect the folks that built the city ... examples ... Sherbrooke, Dorchester (now called Rene Leveque), St-James (now called St,Jaques), Craig (now called St.Antoine), McGill College, City Councillors, Mayor, McTavish, Metcalfe, Bishop, Crescent, Drummond, Towers, Hope, Tupper, Simpson, Mackay, Atwater, Phillips Square, Victoria Square, Mountain (now called de Montagne), Burnside (now called de Maissoneuve), St. Mark (now called St.Marc), Peel, Union, ... etc).

I wouldn't be surprised if within the next 50 or so years, the French Speakers try to re-write history again and rename all the remaining English street names in downtown Montreal to French ones. Notice I said French speakers, not seperatists, cause the Federalist French speakers are just as gulity as are the Seperatists.

Montreal was built by the French and invaded by the anglophones. Spoils of War. They changed everything to their liking. Don't fooled. The History of Canada, and Québec, didnt start in 1763.

 

[Numure]

Re: RE: Quebec shouldn't separate from Canada

You should know French people better, they are lovers not fighters. Hitler took Frence in couple of weeks, Quebec never supported England in the war. In Canada French took over government, bunch of lasy asses are ruling our country. Canada is not about minorities building their little China, Frence, Israil, Russian. Canada is about united minorities with National Idea of Freedom!

We seem to forget who won the war on the Plains of Abraham

Too bad you arnt back thgen huh? Today is today. Now we hold the power in this province. We will shape it to our liking. Not happy, go back to britain where your ancesters came from.

 

[Nascar_James]

Re: RE: Quebec shouldn't separate from Canada

You should know French people better, they are lovers not fighters. Hitler took Frence in couple of weeks, Quebec never supported England in the war. In Canada French took over government, bunch of lasy asses are ruling our country. Canada is not about minorities building their little China, Frence, Israil, Russian. Canada is about united minorities with National Idea of Freedom!

We seem to forget who won the war on the Plains of Abraham

Too bad you arnt back thgen huh? Today is today. Now we hold the power in this province. We will shape it to our liking. Not happy, go back to britain where your ancesters came from.

Oh Really?

Well in that case, as a gentleman in Texas once said ... "We can just take your sorry asses and ship them back to France"