Putting things into perspective - ( READ!! )

[notsoproud2]

Perhaps you saw a need for the U.S. to be there and, if so, you need to lay claim to that.

How do you propose the U.S. should have ceased "looking the other way" then?

Not placing sanctions on the Iraqi people would have been a start.

There were no sanctions on food and medicine.

In the beginning the U.S. sanctioned everything. They probably will now lie and say they didn't. I have seen with my own eyes, and may still have in my papers somewhere (hope the new KGB doesn't show up today) a copy of the actual UN report on the sanctions. A few other countries brought up the fact that it would be inhumane to deny food and medicine. However, the consensus at the meeting was to resign, go away and think about it and then come back for another meeting to discuss it further. Eventually they did allow food and medicine, but not before the sanctions took their toll. As I recall, other humanitarian issues were raised by 2 other countries who later ended up being sanctioned themselves.

Interestingly, that particular resolution is #666. Today if you search the internet for resolution 666, you will find a message stating something to the effect that although many people inquire about it, there never was a resolution 666.

I should see if I still have it. If so, I should probably hide it or burn it. Better to be called a liar than a dead or imprisoned liar.

-- First, they came for the muslims...

 

[Detroit]

Hi! Detroit

You asked readers to take a "second" to put things in perspective.

Well, we Canadians are pretty swift. We only needed half-a-second.

Within half-a-second, I easily recognized that the US killed more than 250 thousand Iraqi citizens during 12 years of sanctions.

Calm

Please elaborate. Please provide links.

Years ago I visited many websites and followed the sanctions. I saved one picture - which I will always keep - it's titled "Kamal Dying." Kamal was a teenager dying of starvation, sickness and lack of medicines. Medicines we take for granted in this country could have saved his life and the lives of countless others like him. Kamal is one of the reasons why every time I see such things as hot dog eating contests, they make me sick!

Now most people in America blame this on Saddam Hussein. They love to talk about how he had his palaces and all kinds of luxuries. They go on and on about his riches and the riches of his sons. All I can say to these people is "get the beam out of your own eye!"

Let me ask you this... If you saw a child here in America who was being starved, whose responsibility would it be to see that the child is fed?

I don't have any links for you now, but if you really wanted to know, you would do a search. It's all out there, every sad, horrific part.

Who would of thunk it? No proff to back up your outlandish statements!! You were so quick to respond with "America killed 250,000 blah blah". Let's just say IF America did kill 250,000 in order to free a country it's worth it. You are so quick to jump on the USA but say nothing about the 6000,000+ Saddam killed!! You are made of out glass and I can see inside of you, your blood pumps of anti-Americanism.

Now off to the kid straving. I say it's the parents fault. It's the parents responsibility to feed their child not Saddam's!!

It's funny how ON EARTH can you blame America for starvation in another country? Did we tell them to stop farming?

 

[Twila]

Why is it that there is a 5 page thread about if Bush order an Israeli flag to be place on some terrorist to try to gain information in order to save US soldiers but yet I don't see any threads about of the insurgents are booby-trapping dead bodies!!

It might be that since the US can leave Iraq and the insurgents can't people have more sympathy with the oppressed rather then the oppressors. I'm gathering that sympathy lies with the babies and children who had no choice in their birth state where as the soldiers were not born soldiers. they made a choice.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Who would of thunk it? No proff to back up your outlandish statements!! You were so quick to respond with "America killed 250,000 blah blah". Let's just say IF America did kill 250,000 in order to free a country it's worth it. You are so quick to jump on the USA but say nothing about the 6000,000+ Saddam killed!! You are made of out glass and I can see inside of you, your blood pumps of anti-Americanism.

It's anti-American to challenge policies that lead to the death of innocent civilians, Detroit? Grow up. It isn't anti-American to challenge such policies when the US uses them, just as it isn't anti-British or anti-French to criticise them when they use similar policies.

You like to toss out the fact that Saddam was a monster. Nobody here is arguing that. He is your monster though...brought to power with covert CIA backing and made strong through years of US support and protection. That support was occurring while he was committing atrocities and your government knew about it, even protected Saddam from international condemnation and possible sanctions.

Now off to the kid straving. I say it's the parents fault. It's the parents responsibility to feed their child not Saddam's!!

Ah, the neo-conservative creedo of refusing to take responsibility for the end results of your actions. The Republican inability to show compassion unless there's a buck to be made.

 

[Rick van Opbergen]

You were so quick to respond with "America killed 250,000 blah blah". Let's just say IF America did kill 250,000 in order to free a country it's worth it. You are so quick to jump on the USA but say nothing about the 6000,000+ Saddam killed!!

So as long as Saddam killed more Iraqis than the US army did, it's fine? Tell that to the people who have lost relatives or friends on the hands of the US army. And why should people be so pushed to say that Saddam killed so many people? We all know that the Saddam regime did that! But we are not planning to use it as an excuse for those Iraqi civilians who died because of the actions of the US army.

 

[notsoproud2]

Hi! Detroit

You asked readers to take a "second" to put things in perspective.

Well, we Canadians are pretty swift. We only needed half-a-second.

Within half-a-second, I easily recognized that the US killed more than 250 thousand Iraqi citizens during 12 years of sanctions.

Calm

Please elaborate. Please provide links.

Years ago I visited many websites and followed the sanctions. I saved one picture - which I will always keep - it's titled "Kamal Dying." Kamal was a teenager dying of starvation, sickness and lack of medicines. Medicines we take for granted in this country could have saved his life and the lives of countless others like him. Kamal is one of the reasons why every time I see such things as hot dog eating contests, they make me sick!

Now most people in America blame this on Saddam Hussein. They love to talk about how he had his palaces and all kinds of luxuries. They go on and on about his riches and the riches of his sons. All I can say to these people is "get the beam out of your own eye!"

Let me ask you this... If you saw a child here in America who was being starved, whose responsibility would it be to see that the child is fed?

I don't have any links for you now, but if you really wanted to know, you would do a search. It's all out there, every sad, horrific part.

Who would of thunk it? No proff to back up your outlandish statements!! You were so quick to respond with "America killed 250,000 blah blah". Let's just say IF America did kill 250,000 in order to free a country it's worth it. You are so quick to jump on the USA but say nothing about the 6000,000+ Saddam killed!! You are made of out glass and I can see inside of you, your blood pumps of anti-Americanism.

Now off to the kid straving. I say it's the parents fault. It's the parents responsibility to feed their child not Saddam's!!

It's funny how ON EARTH can you blame America for starvation in another country? Did we tell them to stop farming?

You're way off base. You are stating I said something when I didn't. I never mentioned any 250,000 anything. It appears you are the one who is too quick to respond without checking your facts.

Sir, I am sorry to see that you just plain don't get it. Sadly, many Americans don't. I am not talking about fault; I am talking about responsibility, something which you don't seem to comprehend. I am talking about true humanity. It is not just a parent's responsibility; it is a human responsibility.

No, I am not anti-American. I held that song by Lee Greenwood, "God bless the USA," close to my heart the very first time he sang it, not just after 9/11. I love my country, which is why I am so concerned for it. At the rate we are going, it's just a matter of time before we do get knocked down - if not by foreigners, perhaps by Jesus himself. I don't know if you believe in God or not, but those who do must know God can't be pleased with this. This nation has gone too far, and our sons and daughters are dying every day. Iraqi citizens are dying every day. If someone came over here and took over, made you show papers, put you out of your homes, killed your family around you, bombing buildings no matter who's inside just to get to one man, you would fight back, too. I am convinced most Americans would take up arms and fight if put in the same predicament the Iraqis are in. The war in Iraq has created thousands of Bin Ladens. Many more people in the world hate us than did before this War of the Bush. The number of terrorists has increased. George W. Bush has actually created terrorists.

I am not anti-American. I am anti-War. I am anti-torture. I am anti-starvation. I am anti-humiliation of a people and a religion - even if I disagree with its beliefs.

I could definitely find the links for you, but I know better. It would be nothing more than a waste of my time. That's why I said if you wanted to know the truth you would search for it yourself. You are apparently a brainwashed Bush robot, and there is nothing I could say or do to get you to see the truth. I really do not mean any disrespect in that statement; I am merely saying I believe you are deceived. I believe anyone who thinks George Warmonger Bush is a man of God, an honest man, is deceived. Anytime you have poor black and hispanic people in America who have never voted republican in their lives walking around talking such nonsense as "a vote against Bush is a vote against God," I can assure you they have been brainwashed. They bought the bridge he, Rove and Cheney sold. Anytime you have people saying things like "...now that we have God in the white house..." Well, Heaven help us.

 

[Twila]

IF America did kill 250,000 in order to free a country it's worth it

I'm sure that Saddam had justification too. IT's all relative to who's being killed and who's doing the killing.
Saddam had US blessing, and the US has who's blessing?

 

[Detroit]

You're way off base. You are stating I said something when I didn't. I never mentioned any 250,000 anything. It appears you are the one who is too quick to respond without checking your facts.

Sir, I am sorry to see that you just plain don't get it. Sadly, many Americans don't. I am not talking about fault; I am talking about responsibility, something which you don't seem to comprehend. I am talking about true humanity. It is not just a parent's responsibility; it is a human responsibility.

No, you are wrong. How is it Americas responsibility tp make sure eveyone has food? Maybe you are the one that doesn't get it. I, as an American would rather have my tax dollars improving American instead of giving it to people that want me dead. This humanity you speak of........ it's a mirage. Why isn't anyone donating money to the starving people in Africa or talking about the killings in the Sudan?

No, I am not anti-American. I held that song by Lee Greenwood, "God bless the USA," close to my heart the very first time he sang it, not just after 9/11. I love my country, which is why I am so concerned for it. At the rate we are going, it's just a matter of time before we do get knocked down - if not by foreigners, perhaps by Jesus himself. I don't know if you believe in God or not, but those who do must know God can't be pleased with this. This nation has gone too far, and our sons and daughters are dying every day. Iraqi citizens are dying every day. If someone came over here and took over, made you show papers, put you out of your homes, killed your family around you, bombing buildings no matter who's inside just to get to one man, you would fight back, too. I am convinced most Americans would take up arms and fight if put in the same predicament the Iraqis are in. The war in Iraq has created thousands of Bin Ladens. Many more people in the world hate us than did before this War of the Bush. The number of terrorists has increased. George W. Bush has actually created terrorists.

Now you are speaking for God? How can you say God can't be pleased with this? Did he tell you that? Everything you've said is just your opinion, I think America hasn't gone far enough. North Korea, Iran etc. We shall not stop until we've killed all of those terrorist who want to destroy America.

I am not anti-American. I am anti-War. I am anti-torture. I am anti-starvation. I am anti-humiliation of a people and a religion - even if I disagree with its beliefs.

Well I'm American and I'm pro-War, I'm anti-torture ( you don't know the defintion of torture, America doesn't use torture), I'm not anti or pro starvation. Stop having kids if you don't have enough food to feed them. I'm pro-humiliation if it saves LIFES!

I could definitely find the links for you, but I know better. It would be nothing more than a waste of my time. That's why I said if you wanted to know the truth you would search for it yourself. You are apparently a brainwashed Bush robot, and there is nothing I could say or do to get you to see the truth. I really do not mean any disrespect in that statement; I am merely saying I believe you are deceived. I believe anyone who thinks George Warmonger Bush is a man of God, an honest man, is deceived. Anytime you have poor black and hispanic people in America who have never voted republican in their lives walking around talking such nonsense as "a vote against Bush is a vote against God," I can assure you they have been brainwashed. They bought the bridge he, Rove and Cheney sold. Anytime you have people saying things like "...now that we have God in the white house..." Well, Heaven help us.[/quote]

Please post the links. I did a search on Google and wasn't able to find anything. I'm brainwashed by Bush? Bush is killing America with his dumb tax cuts and borrowing money, creating Trillions in debt. Trust me, I'm not deceived, I have my views and you have yours. I live in Detroit where the population is 87% African American and 9% Mexican American and I've NEVER EVER heard anyone say a vote agianst Bush is a vote agiasnt God. I've also never heard anyone say that God is in the White House. Where are you getting these quote from?

 

[Reverend Blair]

You're way off base. You are stating I said something when I didn't. I never mentioned any 250,000 anything. It appears you are the one who is too quick to respond without checking your facts.

It's right there in your post, Detroit.

Well I'm American and I'm pro-War, I'm anti-torture ( you don't know the defintion of torture, America doesn't use torture), I'm not anti or pro starvation.

I know the definition of torture very well. America does, in fact, use torture as a matter of course.

Stop having kids if you don't have enough food to feed them.

Republicans keep cutting aid to foreign family planning and insisting on abstinence as the only means of both birth control and AIDS prevention. It's been happening since Reagan was in the White House.

I'm pro-humiliation if it saves LIFES!

It doesn't save lives, it creates terrorists who go on to take lives.

I'm brainwashed by Bush?

Apparently.

I live in Detroit where the population is 87% African American and 9% Mexican American and I've NEVER EVER heard anyone say a vote agianst Bush is a vote agiasnt God. I've also never heard anyone say that God is in the White House. Where are you getting these quote from?

I saw both those statements made in the run-up to your last election. So did millions of others. That you managed to miss them shows your own lack of initiative.

 

[Rick van Opbergen]

You're way off base. You are stating I said something when I didn't. I never mentioned any 250,000 anything. It appears you are the one who is too quick to respond without checking your facts.

It's right there in your post, Detroit.

Just wanted to say it was not Detroit but notsoproud2 who said that Rev For the rest: continue!

 

[Detroit]

You're way off base. You are stating I said something when I didn't. I never mentioned any 250,000 anything. It appears you are the one who is too quick to respond without checking your facts.

It's right there in your post, Detroit. Wrong guy

Well I'm American and I'm pro-War, I'm anti-torture ( you don't know the defintion of torture, America doesn't use torture), I'm not anti or pro starvation.

I know the definition of torture very well. America does, in fact, use torture as a matter of course.

You don't know what torture is. Making someone wear a hood of their face isn't torture, wraping someone in a flag is not torture.

Stop having kids if you don't have enough food to feed them.

Republicans keep cutting aid to foreign family planning and insisting on abstinence as the only means of both birth control and AIDS prevention. It's been happening since Reagan was in the White House.

Once again, America has to provide aid?????????????? WTF!!!!!!!! Why on Earth does America have to give birth control to those people? Where is it written?? American gives the most aid in THE WORLD!! Every YEAR! When America cut back on aid why didn't CANADA step in and pick up the slack?? Everyone already has BIRTH control! Just pull your dick out when you are about to cum.

I'm pro-humiliation if it saves LIFES!

It doesn't save lives, it creates terrorists who go on to take lives.

This can be disputed forever. There is no facts to support claim

I'm brainwashed by Bush?

Apparently.

No sir, I hate Bush. Read above.

I live in Detroit where the population is 87% African American and 9% Mexican American and I've NEVER EVER heard anyone say a vote agianst Bush is a vote agiasnt God. I've also never heard anyone say that God is in the White House. Where are you getting these quote from?

I saw both those statements made in the run-up to your last election. So did millions of others. That you managed to miss them shows your own lack of initiative.

No, you did read what he said. He said and I quote ["Anytime you have poor black and hispanic people in America who have never voted republican in their lives walking around talking such nonsense as "a vote against Bush is a vote against God,"] And I replied I'm black and I live in the blackest city in America and I've never heard anyone say that. Then you followed up with, you saw tons of people saying that ( I'm presuming white people ). Got it? Good

 

[Rick van Opbergen]

Once again, America has to provide aid?????????????? WTF!!!!!!!! Why on Earth does America have to give birth control to those people? Where is it written??

The US signed Agenda 21 (Rio de Janeiro, 1992), which said that the world richest countries should spend 0.7% of their GDP to foreign aid. The US is only spending 0.15%. Canada by the way is also below the 0.7% line.

American gives the most aid in THE WORLD!!

It depends which standard you use. Relatively speaking: definitely not (see above).

Just pull your dick out when you are about to cum.

Have you ever gotten any form of sexual education? Everybody knows that "pulling your dick out" (coitus interuptus) is not very reliable as a form of birth controll (ever heard of pre-cum?)

 

[Detroit]

American gives the most aid in THE WORLD!!

It depends which standard you use. Relatively speaking: definitely not (see above).

I'm talking about the bottom line. The most MONEY overall! With your logic Vanuatu can give only 2 million in aid all year but will rank over the US in giving aid. USA gives BILLIONS, don't forget that.

Just pull your dick out when you are about to cum.

Have you ever gotten any form of sexual education? Everybody knows that "pulling your dick out" (coitus interuptus) is not very reliable as a form of birth controll (ever heard of pre-cum?)[/quote]

Withdrawal is 81-96 percent effective as birth control, depending on how perfectly it is done

http://www.teenwire.com/index.asp?taStrona=http://www.teenwire.com/ask/as_archive_bc.asp

http://www.teenwire.com/index.asp?taStrona=http://www.teenwire.com/ask/as_archive_bc.asp

LINKS!!!!!!! Something you never gave me

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Putting things into p

Actually I saw a Hispanic man say something similar, and I saw black people say something similar, and I saw white people say something similar. I even saw an ex-Canadian say something similar and was incredibly happy that he was no longer living in my country.

It was a well-covered story before and after your last election. I don't know how you managed to miss it.

Once again, America has to provide aid?????????????? WTF!!!!!!!! Why on Earth does America have to give birth control to those people? Where is it written?? American gives the most aid in THE WORLD!! Every YEAR! When America cut back on aid why didn't CANADA step in and pick up the slack?? Everyone already has BIRTH control! Just pull your dick out when you are about to cum.

All of the wealthy nations should be providing aid. The goal is 0.7% of GDP. Canada gives about a dismal 0.25% most years. The US gives a paltrey 0.14% and ties much of it to trade and privatisation schemes that keep the poor nations poor. Sweden is about the best at around 0.5% of GDP. If you'd done your research you'd know that.

You should also study some biology and learn a little bit about birth control. Pulling out is the second least reliable method, one step above the rhythm method. Who the hell do you think you are, the Pope?

You don't know what torture is. Making someone wear a hood of their face isn't torture, wraping someone in a flag is not torture.

Anally raping somebody with a glow-stick or a broom is torture, stress positions are torture, sleep deprivation is torture, sexual and religious humiliation are torture. Get it yet?

This can be disputed forever. There is no facts to support claim

There are psychiatric and sociological studies, some of them commissioned by your government, that support that claim fully.

You've been brainwashed by Bush and the radical right press that has taken over the media in your country. I suggest that you at least attempt to learn a little bit. You have access to the internet, you live in a major city where you can buy magazines that aren't controlled by Republicans, you have access to books by people like Noam Chomsky. You aren't just brainwashed, you volunteered to be brain-washed.

 

[Detroit]

Once again, America has to provide aid?????????????? WTF!!!!!!!! Why on Earth does America have to give birth control to those people? Where is it written??

The US signed Agenda 21 (Rio de Janeiro, 1992), which said that the world richest countries should spend 0.7% of their GDP to foreign aid. The US is only spending 0.15%. Canada by the way is also below the 0.7% line.

See that word? We aren't obligated!! When will you understand that? You should be happy for what amount we give.

 

[Rick van Opbergen]

I'm talking about the bottom line. The most MONEY overall! With your logic Vanuatu can give only 2 million in aid all year but will rank over the US in giving aid. USA gives BILLIONS, don't forget that.

Sure it gives billions, but it's still not meeting the number it said it would give. Agreed?

Withdrawal is 81-96 percent effective as birth control, depending on how perfectly it is done.

Roughly speaking, maybe 1 out of 6 times coitus interuptus is used it can not prevent a pregnancy. I don't call that number very encouraging for people who have unprotected sex with HIV/AIDS patients. Sexologists stress this too, and they rather want people to use a condom (to prevent pregnancies and STD's) and the pill (to prevent pregnancies). I didn't (and don't) feel the need to post any links for this, because this is generally accepted and teach widely at schools (at least, on this part of the ocean).

 

[Twila]

Should/Shall

aux.v. past tense should (shd)
Used before a verb in the infinitive to show:
Something that will take place or exist in the future: We shall arrive tomorrow.
Something, such as an order, promise, requirement, or obligation: You shall leave now. He shall answer for his misdeeds. The penalty shall not exceed two years in prison.
The will to do something or have something take place: I shall go out if I feel like it.
Something that is inevitable: That day shall come.
Archaic.
To be able to.
To have to; must.

hmmm. Nothing to say it means non obligatory.

 

[Rick van Opbergen]

Sweden is about the best at around 0.5% of GDP.

Hey, we Dutchies give 0.8% of our GDP. Thought that to be worth mentioning

See that word? We aren't obligated!! When will you understand that? You should be happy for what amount we give.

Then why did the US sign the agreement in the first place? You know, for such a wealthy country as the US, 0.7% of the GDP should not cause such a huge problem. There are Western European countries who have met this goal (unlike Rev says :wink: ), and of all OECD countries, for what I know, the US scores worst after Japan (if I recall it correctly).

 

[Detroit]

See that word? We aren't obligated!! When will you understand that? You should be happy for what amount we give.

Then why did the US sign the agreement in the first place? You know, for such a wealthy country as the US, 0.7% of the GDP should not cause such a huge problem. There are Western European countries who have met this goal (unlike Rev says :wink: ), and of all OECD countries, for what I know, the US scores worst after Japan (if I recall it correctly).[/quote]

Then why aren't you crying about Japan? They are in dead last and they have a big GDP

 

[Rick van Opbergen]

Well I would if I was not replying to you Detroit, about your comments about US foreign aid. First you start the discussion, now you want me to focus on Japan ... please make up your mind