Putting things into perspective - ( READ!! )
- Thread starter Detroit
- Start date
The way i see it, ousting Saddam was a good thing. He was a very bad man who did lots of bad things to his people and would have done bad things to other peoples people if he had the chance. However the US invaded Iraq under false pretenses and without international support. In my books thats problematic. Iraq did not have WMD and had not had WMD for quite some time. It could not make nuclear weapons and realistically chemical/biological weapons are more weapons of mass disruption then weapons of mass destruction (US Anthrax killed few but shut down lots). Anyway, moving on, there were no Iraqi links to Sept 11 and no links to terror what so ever. Saddam knew that if he did squat the US would be on him in a second. Unlike N Korea whom we know has chemical/biological weapons and Iran that does have a nuclear program, Iraq had nothing, but was a big "easy" target. The US couldn't attack N Korea because of its close ties to China, so instead it chose old fall guy Saddam (They got the benefits of uniting the country under a republican leader in times of war, and possible future access to oil in one fell swoop). That seems to be why the US went to war in the first place, not for security... for money and that is not a good reason to go to war . End of argument that has been done to death but never seems to sink in.
Why is that you are afraid to use the same name in more than one place, Wing? Why are you afraid to reveal who you really are?
Hey, are you still gonna come to Winnipeg and show me your gun? Maybe you want to threaten to beat me up again. Like a decrepit old bitch like you could could manage to do anything but run away.
Crawl back into your hole, you old Nazi f***.
Saddam must of been a bad guy ....
When I see pictures of injured soldiers, it only speaks to the fact that Bush would do the same to his citizens as Saddam is accused of doing to his.
Why else would a government do this to it's own citizens?
Why else would America take on additional debt of 600 billion?
Just look at how many of young American citizens are being wounded because America decided to become a Mother Theresa?
Just look at the cost to their own soldiers and ask if America has any conscience at all?
Iraq war veterans face long-lasting mental health issues, official says
By Alison Young
September 28, 2004
http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/news/special_packages/9783554.htm
Military Personnel Wounded in Iraq & Afghanistan:
A Photo Gallery
December 20, 2004
http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/wounded/gallery.htm
Of 168,000 service members who had served in Iraq and been discharged as of July 22, about 28,000 had sought medical care from the VA, according to the department's most recent statistics. Of those, about 5,400 had mental health issues and nearly one-in-three of those suffered from PTSD, which can include debilitating flashbacks, nightmares, anxiety and uncontrollable anger.
http://www.freep.com/news/nw/troop29e_20040929.htm
Depleted uranium: Dirty bombs, dirty missiles, dirty bullets.
In a group of 251 soldiers from a study group in Mississippi who had all had normal babies before the Gulf War, 67 percent of their post-war babies were born with severe birth defects.
http://www.sfbayview.com/081804/Depleteduranium081804.shtml
When I see pictures of injured soldiers, it only speaks to the fact that Bush would do the same to his citizens as Saddam is accused of doing to his.
Why else would a government do this to it's own citizens?
Why else would America take on additional debt of 600 billion?
Just look at how many of young American citizens are being wounded because America decided to become a Mother Theresa?
Just look at the cost to their own soldiers and ask if America has any conscience at all?
Iraq war veterans face long-lasting mental health issues, official says
By Alison Young
September 28, 2004
http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/news/special_packages/9783554.htm
Military Personnel Wounded in Iraq & Afghanistan:
A Photo Gallery
December 20, 2004
http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/wounded/gallery.htm
Of 168,000 service members who had served in Iraq and been discharged as of July 22, about 28,000 had sought medical care from the VA, according to the department's most recent statistics. Of those, about 5,400 had mental health issues and nearly one-in-three of those suffered from PTSD, which can include debilitating flashbacks, nightmares, anxiety and uncontrollable anger.
http://www.freep.com/news/nw/troop29e_20040929.htm
Depleted uranium: Dirty bombs, dirty missiles, dirty bullets.
In a group of 251 soldiers from a study group in Mississippi who had all had normal babies before the Gulf War, 67 percent of their post-war babies were born with severe birth defects.
http://www.sfbayview.com/081804/Depleteduranium081804.shtml
Detroit, since when do I agree with terrorists? At least, if I have to follow your line of thinking, you're either with us (read: Bush) or against us, I must be strapping explosives on my body at the moment :wink: But seriously: why is everything such a black and white situation Detroit? Why don't you acknowledge that there are people who do not support the Iraq war nor support Saddam Hussein?
RE: Putting things into p
That's one of those malicious fallacies the far right likes to promote on this continent, Rick. If you don't back George Bush, you're a terrorist supporter. If you criticise any US government policies, you are anti-American. If you support human rights, you are a communist. If you support equal rights for gays, you hate children and families. If you support the separation of church and state, you are anti-Christian. If you support democracy, you are anti-democracy.
I know it doesn't make any sense, but that's their philosophy in a nutshell.
That's one of those malicious fallacies the far right likes to promote on this continent, Rick. If you don't back George Bush, you're a terrorist supporter. If you criticise any US government policies, you are anti-American. If you support human rights, you are a communist. If you support equal rights for gays, you hate children and families. If you support the separation of church and state, you are anti-Christian. If you support democracy, you are anti-democracy.
I know it doesn't make any sense, but that's their philosophy in a nutshell.
Re: RE: Putting things into p
You got it. And now with the Patriot Act and the ability to label citizens as enemy combatants, if you aren't with him... I hate to think about the possibilities.
Reverend Blair said:
You got it. And now with the Patriot Act and the ability to label citizens as enemy combatants, if you aren't with him... I hate to think about the possibilities.
Welcome notsoproud2. You must be one of those "other" half of americans. You know the ones that are rational and open minded and can think for themselves. Nice to have you here.
Detroit said:
Years ago I visited many websites and followed the sanctions. I saved one picture - which I will always keep - it's titled "Kamal Dying." Kamal was a teenager dying of starvation, sickness and lack of medicines. Medicines we take for granted in this country could have saved his life and the lives of countless others like him. Kamal is one of the reasons why every time I see such things as hot dog eating contests, they make me sick!
Now most people in America blame this on Saddam Hussein. They love to talk about how he had his palaces and all kinds of luxuries. They go on and on about his riches and the riches of his sons. All I can say to these people is "get the beam out of your own eye!"
Let me ask you this... If you saw a child here in America who was being starved, whose responsibility would it be to see that the child is fed?
I don't have any links for you now, but if you really wanted to know, you would do a search. It's all out there, every sad, horrific part.
Luke 6:35-38
35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.
(KJV)
Thanks for the welcome.peapod said:
Yes, it is sad to see so many people here have been brainwashed and bushwhacked. If I were a physician, I'd be searching for a cure.
notsoproud2 said:
:?: :?: :?:
So what beam?. If you can't blame the guy who stole tens of billions of dollars that were meant for buying food and medicine for Kamal and people like him, who do you blame? Your logic seems disjointed.
Saddam's "Palaces" were more like cities, with his "quarters" all decked out in Gold and Marble. The wealth funneled into these places was obscene even by Rockefeller standards. Didn't the marines find like $800 MILLION in CASH when they went in? How many people can you get food and medicine for with that?
Well, following your logic, I guess it's Al Qaeda's responsibility. Or anyone you don't like that you want to blame for bad things, I guess.
Just the Facts said:
No, sir, it's your responsibility, and it's my responsibility.
Saddam will have to answer for Saddam - what he did or didh't do - as will we all. And anyway, even if a person doesn't believe that, how can any real human being stand back and watch such atrocities and feel no responsibility?
If I saw your child in need, I could reason that there are people with more than me and they should be the ones who help. Shoot, let Oprah do it. I'm trying to tell you that it doesn't matter what someone else has, what someone else does or doesn't do, what anyone else should do. Each of us has a responsibility to aid our fellow man. When you see a need and don't respond, you are just as much at fault. What I'm saying is I believe the United States is just as responsible as Saddam for these deaths, maybe even more because they looked the other way. When you can spend billions of dollars on a mission to Mars, millions on paybacks to Haliburton and the likes, when people are being paid millions of dollars to run around on a field throwing a ball and patting each other on the behind, when hundreds of thousands of dollars are being paid out to people to stand in front of a camera and tell lies, while babies are starving and dying, people don't have clean drinking water, well justify it in your own mind, but you will never convince me.
notsoproud2 said:
So you're saying the U.S. did the right thing going into Iraq. That's an interesting viewpoint and one sure to stimulate quite a response here.
Just the Facts said:
Please don't put words in my mouth; I have too many of my own.
Perhaps you saw a need for the U.S. to be there and, if so, you need to lay claim to that.
My position is: it's a horrible shame, and I keep waiting for all of Bush's bots to wake up and turn human again. I hear all this talk about people getting their heads cut off and how wonderful America is to be there to stop these awful terrorists. How many Americans got their heads cut off in Iraq before Bush's war?
Paranoid Dot Calm said:
I doubt the U.S. is in Iraq because it wants to be a "Mother Teresa." It all boils down to two things, really. "My Daddy" and "that oil." I think this "J.R. Ewing II" who is now in the white house spent a lot of time on his ranch in Texas steamin' over the fact that some brown-faced foreigner had the gall to try to have his daddy 'kilt'. He was determined to get his revenge - and if any of you are familiar with "Dallas" (now renamed "Crawford"), you know J.R. always gets his revenge.
So he sent his gang over there for payback, and naturally they started out by carefully guarding the oil fields. It seems most people have forgotten how all those museum artifacts got up and walked away. Many of them walked a very long way... all the way to the U.S.A.
RE: Putting things into p
Removing the sanctions when it became apparent they weren't having the desired effect but were having a devastating effect on the Iraqi people would have been a good second choice as well.
Removing the sanctions when it became apparent they weren't having the desired effect but were having a devastating effect on the Iraqi people would have been a good second choice as well.