Pope visits Africa, reaffirms ban on condoms

[karrie]

Firstly, no one can ensure that another person is a strict adherent to a stack of rules. No one!

And, your position "Follow the rules or beat it" is a conservative perspective on human institutions. Many prefer to work within an organization to effect change rather than be winnowed out!

Yeah Spade, I'm familiar with the notion of sticking around and effecting change from within. I'm a Catholic in support of gay marriage incase you're curious, and have debated them on MANY issues from celibacy, to birth control AND the condom issue.

What bothers me is people looking at it from the outside, lobbing in pedophile jokes, and pretending that THEY, from OUTSIDE the church, should be the ones who decide how it runs. Are you Catholic? When's the last time you sat down to argue with your parish priest about these doctrines?

 

[karrie]

So, why bother with religion in the first place unless you are trying to hide your perversion behind the mask of religion.

Just because perverts hide in religion doesn't make all religious people perverts. That is a stretch.

*shrugs* you're the one who implied it with your question, not me. If it was a stretch, I appreciate your admitting so.

 

[karrie]

Maybe he didn't know that, Z.

It's been said in a couple posts now. It seems like some are choosing to ignore it.

 

[TenPenny]

Again, he likely got HIV because he was having sex, right?

I'm surprised that you made that leap. So now we've determined that all HIV carriers got HIV by having sex with someone other than their spouses, and that the Pope is, in fact, always right.

 

[L Gilbert]

It's been said in a couple posts now. It seems like some are choosing to ignore it.

lol I must admit that I don't read ALL the posts in a thread either. lol

 

[L Gilbert]

I'm surprised that you made that leap. So now we've determined that all HIV carriers got HIV by having sex with someone other than their spouses, and that the Pope is, in fact, always right.

A friend of mine got HIV and subsequently died of AIDS from having sex with a blood transfusion after breaking a window which caused a breach in his brachial artery.

 

[karrie]

I'm surprised that you made that leap. So now we've determined that all HIV carriers got HIV by having sex with someone other than their spouses, and that the Pope is, in fact, always right.

statistically speaking, what's the most likely way he got HIV? My post said it was LIKELY through sexual transmission, not guaranteed.

And BTW, if you contract HIV, the church has no qualms with you using protection to prevent spreading it.

Protecting life and health is a mandate of the church.

But, because they preach both faithful committed sex, and procreation within marriage, in an IDEAL situation, they discourage condom use. This is a stance the media loves to twist (and the church admittedly fails to adequately educate on), to mean that they forbid condoms in their entirety. Which is bull.

 

[Zzarchov]

I'm surprised that you made that leap. So now we've determined that all HIV carriers got HIV by having sex with someone other than their spouses, and that the Pope is, in fact, always right.

Well if he didn't get it from having sex, then how is a condom going to protect him from getting it?

Wearing a condom while getting a blood transfusion isn't going to protect you from much now is it?


Or do you mean the wife should get to use a condom to protect herself from her husband? Because she can in Catholic doctrine.

 

[Brancoo]

From what I have seen in this subject since all of this came out in the news is that the people in Africa who are suffering the most from AIDS/HIV are poor and do not have a lot of education and resources to them. Just telling these people no, isn't going to solve the problem. Isn't it the United States who have a really high % of youths who not only had sex, but also are pregnant or caught an STD? There's a lot of argument down there between sexual education & distribution of condoms and those who want to promote abstinence. Clearly the abstinence plan doesn't seem to be working very well and nobody is listening to the churches because if they were wouldn't the rates be dropping? I would compare the effects of abstinence in developed countries and compare those results to results in Africa. If it is not working well in developed countries what sort of chance does this idea have in Africa?

 

[L Gilbert]

Well if he didn't get it from having sex, then how is a condom going to protect him from getting it?

Wearing a condom while getting a blood transfusion isn't going to protect you from much now is it?


Or do you mean the wife should get to use a condom to protect herself from her husband? Because she can in Catholic doctrine.

The source of the AIDS was not specified yet one poster leaped to the ASSumption that the guy in a story got it from having extramarital sex. At least that's the way I understand the issue.

 

[Cliffy]

Where did the catholic church get the idea the all sex must be within a committed marriage and only be entered into (pun intended) for procreation purposes? There is nothing in the bible about that, or for celibacy for priests or that only men can be priests.

Most of their doctrines are purely political and sexist in nature. All are designed to control the masses and have nothing to do with god or spirituality.

 

[L Gilbert]

........If it is not working well in developed countries what sort of chance does this idea have in Africa?

A worse chance.

We found that simply telling a child "no" concerning some wish or other doesn't work well with most kids. Explaining the issue did.
But then the various faiths rely too heavily on just stating things without elucidating.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Now a real nasty bastard would say that not using condoms in Africa would eventually solve that continents' overpopulation problem. So, I won't say it.

Nuggler, does Africa have a population problem? I don’t think so, I think you are confusing Africa with Asia. Population density in Africa is quite low. And it is getting lower with the AIDS epidemic.

 

[L Gilbert]

Now a real nasty bastard would say that not using condoms in Africa would eventually solve that continents' overpopulation problem. So, I won't say it.

Nuggler, does Africa have a population problem? I don’t think so, I think you are confusing Africa with Asia. Population density in Africa is quite low. And it is getting lower with the AIDS epidemic.

That depends upon the context. Considering how much food is grown in regions of Africa, the population there IS too great.

 

[karrie]

The source of the AIDS was not specified yet one poster leaped to the ASSumption that the guy in a story got it from having extramarital sex. At least that's the way I understand the issue.

Ass huh? Nice Les. Now, have you followed why we were talking about extramarital sex and not blood transfusions? And that the poster used the qualifying term of LIKELY, didn't just ASSume all AIDS are spread through sex? Hm?

 

[Spade]

And she does according to church doctrine, you are just choosing to ignore that point.

Alright. Tell me what the Church's position is on birth control for Canadian Catholics.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

prove god doesn't exist.........

That's why I'm agnostic. Atheism is also a belief system.

Sorry, earth_as_one, but an Atheist doesn’t have to prove anything. Logically it is impossible to prove a negative, so it is impossible to prove that God doesn’t exist.

Try proving that Santa Claus doesn’t exist, or that you haven’t been to Ulan Bator, Mongolia in the past 10 years (I assume you haven’t). You cannot.

The proof of burden is upon those who claim that God exists, not upon those who say that he/she doesn’t.

 

[L Gilbert]

Ass huh? Nice Les. Now, have you followed why we were talking about extramarital sex and not blood transfusions? And that the poster used the qualifying term of LIKELY, didn't just ASSume all AIDS are spread through sex? Hm?

Calm down, Karrie. I read where you used the term "likely", but there was someone that jumped with both feet squarely into the middle of ASSumption before you.
At any rate, I don't think the pope has any call to be telling anyone that isn't Catholic how they should conduct themselves. And as I said before, the various faiths rely too much on just stating things without explanation or evidence.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

That depends upon the context. Considering how much food is grown in regions of Africa, the population there IS too great.

That only means that Africa has food shortage, not a surplus of population. Population density in Africa is lower than that in Europe.

Asia has a population problem. Population density in Asia is very high. Food shortage in Asia is because of too many people, in Africa it is because of too little food.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Agnostic is atheist with a trumped up insurance plan.

Petros, i like to think of an Atheist as an out of closet gay, and Agnostic as a still in the closet gay.