Pondering Failure in Iraq

[Curiosity]

http://www.aei.org/publications/pubID.25407,filter.all/pub_detail.asp



The Consequences of Failure in Iraq

http://javascript<b></b>:emailThis()They Would Be Awful. But Failure Can Still Be Averted.
By Reuel Marc GerechtPosted: Monday, January 8, 2007

ARTICLESThe Weekly Standard Publication Date: January 15, 2007

What would be the consequences of an American withdrawal from Iraq? Trying to wrap one's mind around the ramifications of a failed Iraq--of an enormous, quite possibly genocidal, Sunni-Shiite clash exploding around American convoys fleeing south--is daunting. In part, this is why few have spent much time talking about what might happen to Iraq, the region, and the United States if the government in Baghdad and its army collapsed into Sunni and Shiite militias waging a battle to the death. Among its many omissions, the Iraq Study Group's stillborn report lacked any sustained description of the probable and possible consequences of a shattered Iraq.

Reuel Marc Gerecht
Before embarking on such an inquiry, a few remarks are in order about American attitudes and about the continuing reasons for hope in Iraq. Americans, for whom foreign policy has always been loaded with moral imperatives and ethical restraints, don't like staring into a bloody moral abyss that we largely dug. The growing bipartisan endeavor to blame the mess in Iraq on the Iraqis is, among other things, a human reaction to screen out all ugly incoming data. For most of Washington, if not the country, Iraq is already Vietnam--no possibility of success, thousands of wasted lives, a grim conviction that it would be best to let the ungrateful, pitiless foreigners take their country back. As the pro-war New York Times columnist Thomas Friedman wrote recently: "Adding more troops makes sense only if it's to buy more time for positive trends that have already begun to appear on the horizon. I don't see them."

article continues (really long)....

 

[tamarin]

Defeat in Iraq will be an American foreign policy disaster. The big fish are still out there. If Iraq is unwinnable and descends into total sectarian chaos, the US will, of course, have to shoulder the blame. And it is a weight that will make it excruciatingly difficult to confront the real enemies circling this adventurist disaster, Iran and North Korea. And increasingly America's old adversaries who have been busily undermining it while sharing its bed - Russia and China.

 

[L Gilbert]

Well said, Tamarin.

That means I agree.

 

[gopher]

As everybody who has remarked on the war objectively knows, Bush's war has already been lost. You simply cannot win a war without support from a nation's majority. With the possible exception of people in Kurdistan, nobody inside of Iraq supports Bush. Nobody.

NeoKKKons such such AEI and Weekly Standard keep supporting Bush's war but that's because they want to maintain their war profiteering. Impose a 100 % excess profits tax and their support will go to hell which is precisely where those criminal traitors belong.

 

[talloola]

Well, they are where they are, and so much blood has been shed. I am so dissapointed with George Bush,

what a shabby president he is, and what a mess he has his country in now. But, at this point in time, I

think they should do what they should have done in the beginning. Send in many more troops, and make

sure, along with the Iraqi government, that the country will be settled, and their military strengthened,

and the u.s. will "support", after they are not fighting any longer, and stay around for undetermined

time, till any threat from Iran has diminished greatly. The. U.S. is responsible for the mess, and they

can't just leave them at this point. 3000 u.s. troops have died, thousands more wounded, so there has

to be some sort of satisfying end to this huge problem, these troops died for their country, so if there

is a way to improve the situation to a point where Iraq can become an independent nation, with some

hope for their future, then it should be done.

 

[MikeyDB]

Hey Hey Hey NOW!

I saw it on CNN so it's got to be true...

Beneath a huge banner strung across the bridge of a U.S. aircraft carrier that read "Mission Accomplished" Mr. Bush declared an end to hostilities in Iraq...it's over....we won....ticker-tape parades and champagne all around....

 

[MikeyDB]

Another American president...Johnson as I recall declared on television "America wins the wars it fights make no mistake.."

Course that was VietNam and we all know what a trouncing we gave them little yellow boogers now don't we.....

Them American presidents have all the straight goods on everything from how to run a world to eating pretzels and riding bicycles...

 

[MikeyDB]

I know there's a few Americans here abouts so I'm hoping y'all can tell me when exactly as a child you went into hospital to have your frontal lobotomies....

 

[L Gilbert]

If I remember correctly, Canadians whupped the yanks a couple or three times. (Long time ago )

 

[Curiosity]

Look at it positively folks..... the U.S. aims to please Canada with yet another failure for you to crow about....jeez I dislike the remarks here....you all sound so bloody righteous....

 

[tamarin]

Canadians can crow all they want but they'd easily be overrun if the US wasn't there to save them. I wouldn't doubt the least countries such as Russia or China have contingency plans for a Canadian invasion. It would be a cakewalk. All that's needed is a weak, vacillating US. With every new American foreign policy disaster, the possibility of the giant losing its will and focus becomes more real.
We have a great deal invested in the US winning in Iraq.

 

[MikeyDB]

Maybe in your mind Tamarin but that's an opinion...which yes you're certainly entitled to hold.

We've been subjected to the new spin that doesn't call war war we now call it "pre-emptive defence", and if it's good enough for the United States and Canada why isn't it good enough for Iraq vs. Kuwait....?

The Japanese as it turns out didn't procecute war on the United States they were simply acting defensively in a pre-emptive manner. If it works in rationalizing thousands of people killed by bombings and missile strikes why not the whole history of human warfare...er pre-emptive defence..?

 

[jimmoyer]

Aaaaaarrrrrrrrrgh.

The hubris of the holier than thou Canadian MikeyDB !!

I think we Americans are in the throes of a Graduate Level Course in HYPOCRISY.

Would that others be so lucky ?

As commentary on this thread shows, there are some people who are much
more energized by United States getting a deserved and justified Black Eye
than they really care about Iraq getting a new chance.

Iraq, is a phoenix, struggling to rise from the ashes, ashes the US help create. Not like
Saddam had anything to do with it. Taunt the big guy, then cry foul.

But neither does the World really care about Iraq in all its self righteousness.

The Bush Administration certainly didn't think too far into this deal, did they ?
So what kind of care was that ?

But nor does the world really care.

Notice its absence of guts.

Kind of any irony that.

 

[tamarin]

The Japanese defensive? No! Japan attacked Pearl Harbour to further its ambition to overrun all the islands of its new Pacific fiefdom. A smart strategic move. To inhibit interference in its imperialistic venture.

 

[MikeyDB]

Hey Jim I didn't ask that America invade Iraq on a pretext complete with lies and if you're happy to package it up as pre-emptive defense...swell.

If you think I've been harsh on the U.S. for its legacy of death and destruction around the world, you're right, I've never been a fan of mayhem under the umbrella of a self righteous Munroe Doctrine or walk softly and carry a big stick mentality....whether that's Russia France, Britain or the United States of America. If you don't like the criticism stay the **** off these threads and pile more sand around your head.

 

[jimmoyer]

I was staying with your thinking all the way MikeyDB until you ended with, "If you don't like the criticism stay the **** off these threads and pile more sand around your head."

LOL !!!

Life on the beach.

Sand.

The Visual.

LOL !!

Does your girlfriend say you get cuter the angrier you get ???

 

[missile]

After noting that the US is only holding parts of Bagdad, the airport, and some smaller areas, there is no question that the "mission' is a total failure & was doomed from the very beginning. I notice, too, that our govt. claims it can win in Afghanistan! Only in their dreams!!

 

[Curiosity]

I apologize to the membership for posting the article....

It would seem the U.S. are disallowed from error by their northern cousins - and while I entertain the fantasy that we are interchangeable as nations, both having each other's existence, health and wealth
at a common level of protective caring.... it would seem over the past say ten years since I have been
a surpised viewer of Canadian unedited thought - Canadians really do not like the people to the south..
even to the point I carefully step around using the word "American" for that has also been criticized
roundly.

It think it is a small kind of attitude.... more like the Europeans are always playing but they are old and failing nations.... perhaps Canada wishes the United States to fail as well......

The U.S. will never have that Euro attitude - that selfish for me kind of crap - and it is why I choose to
live and participate in whatever dreams each succeeding U.S. government has and leads me into. For participation is welcomed and sought - each of us having a voice either locally or nationally.

I enjoy the feeling of belonging to a nation who choose action (whether right or wrong) instead of passive critique.

 

[jimmoyer]

To leave and let Afghanistan and Iraq fester is a problem that won't leave us alone.

Failed State Theory has a new corrollary:
al Qaeda looks for such failed states to be a safe haven.

Missle and MikeyDB, as right as both of you are in your condemnations, your solution of leaving
begs you to consider a more ugly scenario.

 

[Curiosity]

JimMoyer

Doesn't matter what the critique is about the U.S. - there is always something wrong - too patriotic - too loud - too pushy - takes advantage of the world -

The commentary whether rational or not is deeply personal and does absolutely nothing in the way of constructive dialogue other than to vent.

It's like some bloody bad marriage.... from which we can't seem to extricate. Sad part is I think some thrive on keeping it that way rather than finding common solutions....