Pondering Failure in Iraq

[tamarin]

http://www.bushflash.com/thanks.html

I know this has probably been posted before but it's always enjoyable. Gets to the quick of what's occurred.

 

[#juan]

Tamarin

If it had been posted before, I missed it. Thank you.

 

[MikeyDB]

How long will it take for somone to offer the opinion that this piece of film/documentary is obviously the manipulation of fact by Liberal left wing pacifist corrupt governments...no wait that's not what I meant to say...

 

[talloola]

[




Post invasion, civil war Iraq is now far more dangerous than it ever was under Hussein.

BUT, in a much different way, now they are threatening each other, before HE was threatening
them.

So I fail to see how anyone can claim Iraqis are better off as a result of the US led invasion. In fact, George Bush Jr. is responsible for pretty much the same scale of Iraqi deaths as Saddam Hussein.

That is probably close to right, but it could have been better if the U.S. had of planned and executed
the invasion properly, from day one, it was plain to see that the planning was very poor, not enough
troups, no policing, no security. If they had of done it correctly, they could have settled things very
quickly, restored facilities to the people faster, made people feel secure, then the government
would have had a population that was more satisfied and comfortable, BUT they did it all wrong,
and that was very apparant very early on.

Explain to me again how Bush has improved Iraq....
He has made Iraq a "horrible" place to live.

There was no need to invade Iraq
That's absolutely right, what ever happened to finishing the job in Afghanistan, and allowing the
United Nations, along with everyone else deside how to deal with Iraq.
There was no "threat" to the U.S. from Iraq, at all.

 

[L Gilbert]

No. It was simply more stable under Hussein, not safe. Just ask anyone who managed to live after opposing Hussein. People were tortured and killed on the basis of rumors. That's not dangerous?
At any rate, the whole thing was none of the States' business. Shoulda kept their beaks outta there.

 

[thomaska]

[




Post invasion, civil war Iraq is now far more dangerous than it ever was under Hussein.

BUT, in a much different way, now they are threatening each other, before HE was threatening
them.

So I fail to see how anyone can claim Iraqis are better off as a result of the US led invasion. In fact, George Bush Jr. is responsible for pretty much the same scale of Iraqi deaths as Saddam Hussein.

That is probably close to right, but it could have been better if the U.S. had of planned and executed
the invasion properly, from day one, it was plain to see that the planning was very poor, not enough
troups, no policing, no security. If they had of done it correctly, they could have settled things very
quickly, restored facilities to the people faster, made people feel secure, then the government
would have had a population that was more satisfied and comfortable, BUT they did it all wrong,
and that was very apparant very early on.

Explain to me again how Bush has improved Iraq....
He has made Iraq a "horrible" place to live.

There was no need to invade Iraq
That's absolutely right, what ever happened to finishing the job in Afghanistan, and allowing the
United Nations, along with everyone else deside how to deal with Iraq.
There was no "threat" to the U.S. from Iraq, at all.

<snicker> What was that plan the U.N. was on?....oh yes the "pass resolution after endless resolution until Saddam finally dies from old age plan, and Koffi Annan's son can't get anymore money from food for oil" plan... Yes that was working great.

 

[talloola]

<snicker> What was that plan the U.N. was on?....oh yes the "pass resolution after endless resolution until Saddam finally dies from old age plan, and Koffi Annan's son can't get anymore money from food for oil" plan... Yes that was working great

When the people were searching for WMD's in Iraq, they looked for quite some time, still not finding
anything, the U.S. would not wait for the finish of this search, as they allready had their troups waiting
to invade, it was the right time of the year, they didn't want to invade too late in the spring. It was
really very wrong. They accused Hussein of hiding the weapons. Hussein was also very stupid about
the situation, as his ego would not let him try to reason with anyone, he was so arrogant, which didn't
help his situation. But, it didn't matter, the u.s. was going into Iraq irrespective of what happened with
the search. or anything else for the matter, they had made up their minds, long before that.

But, noone found anything, that isn't what the U.S. wanted, they were so sure some would be found,
which would validate his invasion. BUT there was none. They had no reason to invade, they were
going to do it, no matter what, that isn't right, it is wrong.

 

[gopher]

```noone found anything, that isn't what the U.S. wanted, they were so sure some would be found,
which would validate his invasion. BUT there was none. They had no reason to invade, they were
going to do it, no matter what, that isn't right, it is wrong.```

Hans Blix told the entire world that none would be found. The reason why he knew it is because he was the one who conducted the inspections which were 95 % complete when Bush began his criminal invasion.

To blame Saddam for the war and the subsequent deaths and destruction is silly beyond all belief. The blame goes exclusively to Bush and at some point, whether anyone likes it or not, he must be held accountable for his crimes.

 

[MikeyDB]

Would you feel that way if they'd slaughtered your family and been responsible for oppressive regimes that kept you poor and ignorant...

Choose a nation that behaves responsibly and doesn't kill hundreds of thousands on a whim....conduct missile attacks and espionage on anyone it chooses, manufactures a crisis so war-proffiteering is possible for the select few while thousands pay the price in blood for your profits...

Such BULL!

 

[MikeyDB]

Americans can't admit to their own nature in the face of evidence available since they became a nation....

America is a bully and a lout, an adolescent society with virtually no impulse controls and an arrogance well beyond the pale of any other nation on this planet.

The people of America have been led down the garden path by the wealthy and the crooked for years...just like Canada and many other nations...

The difference is that if you're an American, EVEN WHEN YOU"RE WRONG YOU CLAIM YOU'RE RIGHT....

A society that does something instead of passive comment and observation Curiosity???????

There is no nation on earth at the moment with the chutzpah and the means to push the world into another conflagration in the name of "doing something..." than America... is that whay you're so happy about Curiosity......

 

[Albertabound]

Explain again why this invasion was necessary. Seems to me Iraq wasn't a threat to anyone and if Iraqis went about their business and didn't try to overthrow Hussein, they were relatively safe. Iraq and low crime rates and there weren't any suicide bombers, car bombs, assassinations, raping, looting... going on. Iraq was relatively quiet and peaceful, except for attacks by American and British warplanes

Earth_as_One ....you have it exactly right. Anyone that thinks this war was just then I believe you should sign up be the first one over there. None of what is happening there now was happening under Saddam's rule. Yes he ruled the country as a tyrant, and that is why there has not been civil war under his reign. Now you have removed the one thing people feared in that country and all hell has broken loose.

Say what you will about the man he kept control over the country.

It is the US gov't that kept it in poverty with their sanctions

And if you think all is just because Saddam killed so many people then it is time that the Americans are brought to justice for all of their atrocities.


6,000,000 people have died due to the operations of the CIA

 

[earth_as_one]

No. It was simply more stable under Hussein, not safe. Just ask anyone who managed to live after opposing Hussein. People were tortured and killed on the basis of rumors. That's not dangerous?
At any rate, the whole thing was none of the States' business. Shoulda kept their beaks outta there.

Here's a newsflash:

People are still being tortured and killed in Iraq based on rumours.

....four drunken Americans took a 17-year-old female prisoner from her cell and forced her to expose her breasts and kissed her.

In another documented incident, troops are alleged to have smeared mud on the detained 17-year-old son of an Iraqi general and forced his father to watch him shiver in the cold.
Brig Gen Karpinski, who was in charge at Abu Ghraib from July to November 2003, said she often visited the prison's youngest inmates.
She said in her interview that she thought one boy "looked like he was eight years old".
"He told me he was almost 12," she said. "He told me his brother was there with him, but he really wanted to see his mother, could he please call his mother. He was crying." She said the military began holding children and women at Abu Ghraib from mid-2003...

....Brig Gen Karpinski said US commanders were reluctant to release detainees, an attitude she called "releasophobia".

In her interview, she said Maj Gen Walter Wodjakowski, then the second most senior army general in Iraq, told her in the summer of 2003 not to release more prisoners, even if they were innocent.
"I don't care if we're holding 15,000 innocent civilians," she said Maj Gen Wodjakowski told her. "We're winning the war." The ACLU has sued US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld on behalf of four Iraqis and four Afghans who say they were tortured in US facilities....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4339511.stm

Israel trains US assassination squads in Iraq

[FONT=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]Julian Borger in Washington
Tuesday December 9, 2003
The Guardian
[/FONT]
Israeli advisers are helping train US special forces in aggressive counter-insurgency operations in Iraq, including the use of assassination squads against guerrilla leaders, US intelligence and military sources said yesterday...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1102940,00.html

Bodies of 40 torture victims found in Baghdad



[FONT=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]Staff and agencies
Thursday September 28, 2006
Guardian Unlimited

[/FONT]The bodies of 40 men have been found dumped in the streets of Baghdad over the past 24 hours, Iraqi police said today. The men - who all appeared to be victims of sectarian death squads - showed signs of having been tortured. They had been shot and had their hands and feet were bound...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1882949,00.html

How likely is it that American specialists are responsible for some of the tortured and executed?