Plan to deny care to obese patients/smokers put on hold

[JLM]

What about the ones who don't do anything but go to the doc for anything including a hang-nail? The waiting rooms should be filled with alternative treatment books so the patients might find the solution while waiting for something way more expensive. Take away the shareholder part of big pharma and the cost of treatments bottoms out, where it should be as health is pretty close to being an essential service.

I think everyone should shoulder the responsibility to enhance their own health, while at the same time being able to recognize when they've reached the point where professional help is needed. I would guess people who run to emergency or the doc's office for hang nails and snotty noses may have other health problems, possibly located above the neck.

 

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

Fatty food and cigs are legal. Doctors can't and should not choose who they help and who they don't.

 

[damngrumpy]

In our family I have seen first hand the effects of COPD from smoking
People are in denial until the heavy hand of fate comes knocking on the
door. Don't kid yourself the excuse "I"m the only one effected" Is not the
case. Just going shopping means getting the oxygen tanks and walker
and well you get what I mean There is the lost opportunities to do things
with grand kids and more
People have to understand the consequences before they engage in the
social pastimes that may well kill them

 

[JLM]

Fatty food and cigs are legal. Doctors can't and should not choose who they help and who they don't.

No- there's a tactful way to do it. "If you follow my instructions and take your medication, I think I can help you, if not, perhaps you can find another doctor." If the patient doesn't take the hint the doctor could be stuck with him/her.

 

[Danbones]

Really? My father worked in the field behind horses and the dust from the black dirt had bacteria in it that ended up in his lungs. It eventually caused his death and yes he did smoke.
Wouldn't asthma attacks be the first stage of interference with a person's breathing ability? Anything that interferes with the red blood cells will have the same effect on everybody, the brain sees a lower 02 content and corrects it but in some cases the ability of the cell to carry 02 is reduced and the brain doesn't pick that part up so no adapting is done and the side effects appear without any obvious cause.

You should be able to predict a person's breathing performance using data from altitude sickness studies as they seem to have a certain height where that is likely to happen for most people. After that height each stage has certain signs and the cure is to apply the treatment in a better safe than sorry mode. The cure is lower altitude (more air pressure) or increase the 02 intake for as long as it takes. That last part might be the solution to other products that result in the body getting less than optimal 02. Fixing that is relatively cheap.

everybody gets cancer all the time, it depends on your immune system which is where the real assaults are taking place

for buddy with the misleading graphs above:
Dr. Khansarinia hopes to reverse this stigma, especially as the rate of lung cancer in non-smokers and women is on the rise. “It’s a very interesting notion that the rate of death by lung cancer in the United State is rising,” he says.

“It’s a frightening number because it is estimated over 160,000 people will die of lung cancer in the United States. It’s 28 percent of all cancer deaths.” While lung cancer cases are on the rise among women and non-smokers, it appears to have plateaued in men.Lung cancer on the rise: why it’s not only a “smoker’s diseaseâ€�.
please note those graphs don't parallel smoking stats do they, and they don't tell the whole story, do they?
back to the OP:
Doctors not attending to people based on a reason like smoking causes cancer which has been shown even by the graphs posted above to be factually incorrect is to admit the doctors don't have a clue
its just about profits

No- there's a tactful way to do it. "If you follow my instructions and take your medication, I think I can help you, if not, perhaps you can find another doctor." If the patient doesn't take the hint the doctor could be stuck with him/her.

a doctor will tell you butter is bad and Margerine is good
meanwhile margerine will KILL YOU
every cancer patient is worth a couple million dollars to the system
doctors don't do prevention very well

 

[JLM]

a doctor will tell you butter is bad and Margerine is good
meanwhile margerine will KILL YOU

No- I've been eating it for over 70 years and I haven't been killed. Lots of stuff will kill you if used to extreme, most stuff is perfectly safe if used in moderation. Even with tobacco for many people I've known it seems to take 30 - 40 smokes a day for 30 - 40 years. Lack of exercise is likely the biggest killer.

 

[Danbones]

Heart disease was rare in developed nations at the turn of the century. Between 1920 and 1960, the incidence of heart disease rose precipitously to become the number one killer. During the same period butter consumption plummeted from eighteen pounds per person per year to four.

It doesn’t take a Ph.D. in statistics to conclude that butter is not a cause. Actually butter contains many nutrients that protect us from heart disease.
https://healthimpactnews.com/2013/t...-replacing-butter-with-margarine-in-our-diet/

Russian roulette doesn't kill everyone who picks up the gun
what would be the fun if it did?

Here is what you are actually eating
"Why You Should Avoid Margarine, Shortening and Spreads

There are a myriad of unhealthy components to margarine and other butter imposters, including:

Trans fats: These unnatural fats in margarine, shortenings and spreads are formed during the process of hydrogenation, which turns liquid vegetable oils into a solid fat. Trans fats contribute to heart disease, cancer, bone problems, hormonal imbalance and skin disease; infertility, difficulties in pregnancy and problems with lactation; and low birth weight, growth problems and learning disabilities in children. A U.S. government panel of scientists determined that man-made trans fats are unsafe at any level. (Small amounts of natural trans fats occur in butter and other animal fats, but these are not harmful.)
Free radicals: Free radicals and other toxic breakdown products are the result of high temperature industrial processing of vegetable oils. They contribute to numerous health problems, including cancer and heart disease.
Synthetic vitamins: Synthetic vitamin A and other vitamins are added to margarine and spreads. These often have an opposite (and detrimental) effect compared to the natural vitamins in butter.
Emulsifiers and preservatives: Numerous additives of questionable safety are added to margarines and spreads. Most vegetable shortening is stabilized with preservatives like BHT.
Hexane and other solvents: Used in the extraction process, these industrial chemicals can have toxic effects.
Bleach: The natural color of partially hydrogenated vegetable oil is grey so manufacturers bleach it to make it white. Yellow coloring is then added to margarine and spreads.
Artificial flavors: These help mask the terrible taste and odor of partially hydrogenated oils, and provide a fake butter taste.
Mono- and di-glycerides: These contain trans fats that manufacturers do not have to list on the label. They are used in high amounts in so-called “low-trans” spreads.
Soy protein isolate: This highly processed powder is added to “low-trans” spreads to give them body. It can contribute to thyroid dysfunction, digestive disorders and many other health problems.
Sterols: Often added to spreads to give them cholesterol-lowering qualities, these estrogen compounds can cause endocrine problems; in animals these sterols contribute to sexual inversion.
There Is NO Substitute For Butter"

enjoy

 

[JLM]

Heart disease was rare in developed nations at the turn of the century. Between 1920 and 1960, the incidence of heart disease rose precipitously to become the number one killer.

Up until the turn of the 20th century most labour was done manually. By 1960 we pretty well had a machine for everything. Also it was during this time frame that processed food started to become the rule rather than the exception. Look at your average grocery store- one complete aisle is generally dedicated to sugar saturated pop, mostly Coke and Pepsi - that f**king sh*t will kill a dog. The other side of the aisle is dedicated to salt laden chips and sugar laden candy. It ain't rocket science. If you want to eat sweet sh*t, eat honey. You'll live longer.

 

[Danbones]

well, that is the secret
its what YOU decide to do
you have to do your own due diligence

I can say this
I have just proved them all wrong on two subjects and solved for cures from Nutritional sources
my Doctors DO NOT HAVE A CLUE.
they are asking me what to do

So sorry, I now have ZERO faith in their system, and when this gets out, after the gigantic WTF!!!??! most people won't anymore either

 

[JLM]

well, that is the secret
its what YOU decide to do
you have to do your own due diligence

I can say this
I have just proved them all wrong on two subjects and solved for cures from Nutritional sources
my Doctors DO NOT HAVE A CLUE.
they are asking me what to do

So sorry, I now have ZERO faith in their system, and when this gets out, after the gigantic WTF!!!??! most people won't anymore either

I guess I've been lucky that I've always had excellent doctors and they've saved "my bacon" a couple of times. As they are very busy people looking after the really sick, I think person should do all they can for themselves. I get pissed off at people who whine about doctors...............sure there's a few that aren't good, but they are the minority! It's like any profession, there's a bad apple in every barrel. P.S. Doctors aren't nutritionalists necessarily.

 

[Danbones]

the Doctors are exilent
its the system
Study Exposes Corruption of U.S. Health Care, How Big Pharma Manufactures Consumer Demand
Read more at Study Exposes Corruption of U.S. Health Care, How Big Pharma Manufactures Consumer Demand

"Western medicine has some good points, for sure, and is great in an emergency, but it’s high time people realized that today’s mainstream medicine (western medicine or allopathy), with its focus on drugs, radiation and surgery, is at its foundation a Rockefeller creation. ...

...Despite the dominance of western medicine nowadays, even just 100 years ago the situation was very different, so it’s worthwhile casting our minds back to how the we got to this place. How did western medicine and the giant conglomerate of multinational pharmaceutical corporations (“Big Pharma”) become the mainstream medical system in the US and other first world nations?

...so he hired a man called Abraham Flexner to submit a report to Congress in 1910. This report “concluded” that there were too many doctors and medical schools in America, and that all the natural healing modalities which had existed for hundreds or thousands of years were unscientific quackery. "
Western Medicine is Rockefeller Medicine – All The Way

As I said, I just proved that TWICE here in the real world using ancient medical knowledge which turned out to be correct while currently ALL the DOCTORS on the planet are WRONG
PROVED...with PROOF the doctors can't deny because its their machinery and diagnostics and I told them what I was going to do before I did and provided the resources to justify it.

and I did it with food and vitamins specifically
at a savings of HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of DOLLARS

 

[davesmom]

In our family I have seen first hand the effects of COPD from smoking
People are in denial until the heavy hand of fate comes knocking on the
door. Don't kid yourself the excuse "I"m the only one effected" Is not the
case. Just going shopping means getting the oxygen tanks and walker
and well you get what I mean There is the lost opportunities to do things
with grand kids and more
People have to understand the consequences before they engage in the
social pastimes that may well kill them

Don't blame smoking exclusively! The air we have to breath is toxic from all kinds of fumes. Taking smoking out of the picture is like trying to empty the ocean with a teaspoon.
I know scores of people who have COPD, are dependent on puffers and medication and have had nothing to do with cigarette smoke.


Back in the day when nearly everyone smoked, there were not the high rates of asthma, cancers, heart attacks and stokes among young people that there are today. That's because the REAL causes of pollution didn't exist.


When people get serious enough about air pollution to limit their choices and usage of vehicles, stop the crazy manufacture of throw-away products and stop using plastics for everything, start producing and eating healthy foods and clear water, I'll start taking anti-smokers seriously.
It's easy to blame smoking for all ills; it takes the focus off the real polluters.

 

[Machjo]

What I just love, is the hypocrites that endorse legalizing pot, and wanting to allow it anywhere and everywhere, but those that smoke cigarettes are no better than the devil.

Can you point to one example?

I for one am undecided on whether I support legalizing pot, but I think we should toughen advertising and promotion laws surrounding tobacco and apply the same laws to pot.

You want to smoke, be a good patriot and smoke in private so as to set a good example to the next generation of Canadians in public.

Yes, I do see it as a patriotic duty.

What I find most offensive is walking behind a fvcking human chimney downtown. Worse yet, when I'm passing by a bus stop being used as a friggin smoke factory! It's bad enough with tobacco. Now we'll have to breathe in marijuana soot too. Effin disrespectful druggies.

 

[Ludlow]

Well I don't like to get too personal but I was a cig smoker for a long time. I stopped about 7 years ago. Lately my right leg has been hurting among other health issues. Been hurting for about a year and a half. Did the MRI , x-rays , epidural on the S1. One doctors appt after another. The .Spine Specialists sent me to their pain managment office in the Capital city. I was just expecting an interview and prescription but the Lady had me get undressed and put the gown on. In comes the doctor and she proceeds to examine me. Reflexes, range of motion, etc. etc. She then tells me she is concerned about the swelling in my right leg and orders a sonogram stat at the hospital we go to. I go to radiology and get the ultrasound underway on my leg and the technician asks me at least 4 times how much I smoke. I told her I didn't smoke but it kinda got me concerned. At any rate they tell me to get dressed but do not leave. The assistant comes back and lets me know I have a pretty large DVT. She then sends me to the ER. ...On blood thinner medicine now and probably will be from now on. There are several factors involved in DVT'S, but I believe had I never smoked cigarettes, it would not have developed. That's what I believe.

 

[JLM]

Well I don't like to get too personal but I was a cig smoker for a long time. I stopped about 7 years ago. Lately my right leg has been hurting among other health issues. Been hurting for about a year and a half. Did the MRI , x-rays , epidural on the S1. One doctors appt after another. The .Spine Specialists sent me to their pain managment office in the Capital city. I was just expecting an interview and prescription but the Lady had me get undressed and put the gown on.

Did you manage to get her undressed?

Can you point to one example?

I for one am undecided on whether I support legalizing pot, but I think we should toughen advertising and promotion laws surrounding tobacco and apply the same laws to pot.

You want to smoke, be a good patriot and smoke in private so as to set a good example to the next generation of Canadians in public.

Yes, I do see it as a patriotic duty.

What I find most offensive is walking behind a fvcking human chimney downtown. Worse yet, when I'm passing by a bus stop being used as a friggin smoke factory! It's bad enough with tobacco. Now we'll have to breathe in marijuana soot too. Effin disrespectful druggies.

I for one am VERY decided - legalize it for medicinal use ONLY.

 

[Ludlow]

Did you manage to get her undressed?




I for one am VERY decided - legalize it for medicinal use ONLY.

She's a feisty lady and a very caring physician. You can see the concern on her face as she checks you out. I told her that the neurosurgeon reviewed my MRI and said the spine looked okay. She sternly said I will review it myself. I really like her. She has me scheduled for an EMG in a couple weeks because of the numbness I have. Not really looking forward to that test.

I've lot's of family members who died young. They were all heavy smokers. My family that were non smokers lived longer healthier lives. You can draw your own conclusions.

 

[JLM]

She's a feisty lady and a very caring physician. You can see the concern on her face as she checks you out. I told her that the neurosurgeon reviewed my MRI and said the spine looked okay. She sternly said I will review it myself. I really like her. She has me scheduled for an EMG in a couple weeks because of the numbness I have. Not really looking forward to that test.

I've lot's of family members who died young. They were all heavy smokers. My family that were non smokers lived longer healthier lives. You can draw your own conclusions.

Makes perfect sense to me................Oxygen = Life!

 

[MHz]

I think everyone should shoulder the responsibility to enhance their own health, while at the same time being able to recognize when they've reached the point where professional help is needed. I would guess people who run to emergency or the doc's office for hang nails and snotty noses may have other health problems, possibly located above the neck.

Some people don't care that much, however they might start if the suicide pill was suddenly on their option list. If it's free they really want you gone.

 

[JLM]

Some people don't care that much, however they might start if the suicide pill was suddenly on their option list. If it's free they really want you gone.

I don't think we're quite at that point yet, although I have no doubt we are getting close. If people don't smarten up we'll be right out of money for ANY health care.

 

[MHz]

My dream of the Last Ride Water Park and Crematorium might have a place in economy that is at rock bottom. How many homeless would take the pill, not very many. How many university grads that are unemployed and $100,000 in debt or they just lost all the family wealth when the market went tits up would take the pill?