Peter McKay , Foriegn Minister

[Colpy]

Re: RE: Peter McKay , Foriegn

Collective punishment is perfectly fair when there is collective guilt.

And there's the hard edge of it.

Just foir clarification's sake- does this mean that the "terror attacks" of 9/11 were somewhat justified??? That would seem to be the case, and the US getting bombed into the stone age would also be justified, with regards to their current geo-criminal actions, no??

Touche

Good point, except exactly what indignities had the USA imposed on the Muslim world?

Going to war to defend Muslim Saudi Arabia and push the forces of secular Iraq out of Muslim Kuwait?

Going to war to defend Muslims in the Balkans?

Making a number of Muslim nations rich by paying whatever price the OPEC cartel demanded for oil?

Bringing Arab and Israeli together in the search for Middle East peace?

Eactly what "geo-criminal actions" (pre-2001) are we talking about here?

 

[Colpy]

Colpy, that is silly. As for resistance in Germany, many did what they could to eliminate Hitler all the while protecting themselves from the Nazis. Also, Hitler wooed the Germans with threats of Communism and terrorism just like Bushy (who was also appointed by the way). And, nations are not responsibel for the actions of those that lead. I never voted for Harper and he doesn't rule on behalf of me. He is the antithesis of my beliefs. That is just plain stupid to say that I am responsible for Harper's actions -- everyone here with a brain would agree.

First of all you are wrong about resistence in Germany. It was tiny, consisting only of a few Stalinist saboteurs, a tiny cadre of military officers, a religious resistence that really only hid a very few Jews, and a student resistence that managed to write some grafitti before being caught and executed. That is it. Yes, the German people were responsible............either by active participation, by complacency, or by cowardice.

Yes, Stephen Harper has only a minority government, but he represents ALL of us and we are all responsible for him being in office. So you can't stand him, and he is the antithesis of everything you believe........what are you DOING about it?

I would bet NOTHING. Perhaps you manage to drag yourself out to vote, and then consider yourself to have done your civic duty............baloney.

Do you belong to a political party? Do you work for a party or NGO that strives to change Canadian society? Do you contribute? Are you ACTIVE in Canadian political life?

If not, your complacency has helped Harper be elected.

As a member of the Conservative Party, I thank you.

But YOU are as responsible for the way he represents Canada as I am.

 

[Caleb-Dain Matton]

Re: RE: Peter McKay , Foriegn Minister

[ Yes, the German people were responsible............either by active participation, by complacency, or by cowardice.

Do you suggest then, that if citizens of a country are adverse to it's minority leader that it's citizens have a right to forcibly remove the government? I would love to!

Do you belong to a political party? Do you work for a party or NGO that strives to change Canadian society? Do you contribute? Are you ACTIVE in Canadian political life?

I am a card-carrying member of two fringe parties. I have protested peacefully and violently against both the Liberal Party and the Conservative Party. I have held a sign up to Harper's face. I write various letters to various dailies. I have held meetings on political matters.

If not, your complacency has helped Harper be elected.

As a member of the Conservative Party, I thank you.

But YOU are as responsible for the way he represents Canada as I am.

So, I have not been complacent in the least to that bastard we are talking of. So, the blood that Harper is spilling around the world is only dirtying up the hands of the like of you -- you should be ashamed.

 

[Colpy]

Do you suggest then, that if citizens of a country are adverse to it's minority leader that it's citizens have a right to forcibly remove the government? I would love to!

I would suggest that should a government cross the line into tyranny and oppression that it is the solemn DUTY of the people to oppose it in any way possible.

Harper has done no such thing. As it stands, the only options for legitimate dissent are the usual......exercising free speech, and getting involved (as you are) in politics.

I am a card-carrying member of two fringe parties. I have protested peacefully and violently against both the Liberal Party and the Conservative Party. I have held a sign up to Harper's face. I write various letters to various dailies. I have held meetings on political matters.

Good stuff! Except for the "violently" bit, but as I don't know specifics, I can't take you to task for that. I notice you admit your membership is in "fringe" parties. The very definition of that means you and your colleagues are in a tiny minority............keep on working, but majority rules legitimately.

So, I have not been complacent in the least to that bastard we are talking of. So, the blood that Harper is spilling around the world is only dirtying up the hands of the like of you -- you should be ashamed.

Exactly WHAT innocent blood is Harper spilling? Yes we are in Afghanistan, trying to pull that nation ot of the clutches of a bunch of killers roughly the equivalent of the Nazi SA. Good for us.

I am not ashamed......I am proud to be Canadian.

So much more proud in the last 6 months.

 

[FiveParadox]

Re: Peter MacKay, Foreign Minister

I would just like to note that The Right Honourable Stephen Harper, P.C., M.P., the Member for Calgary Southwest and the Prime Minister of Canada, does not represent me. The Crown of Canada represents me. I am sure that there are members of the Conservative Party of Canada who would concur; he represents Canada abroad, but this is as a representative of the Crown, and not as a Conservative.

I opposed the election of the present Government of Canada, and I have continued to oppose a majority of the practices of this Twenty-eighth Ministry of Canada. I voted, but that alone (in my view) should not be the extent of one's action for one's preferred party, if one indeed does not deem the present Government to be favourable. I have a continued dialogue with several members of the House of Commons and the Senate of Canada (both Grits and Tories), expressing my concerns, and I am quite honest as to my party membership (however, I have found that when one presents one's views with a reasonable tone and respect, even if from an opposing party, representatives from any party tend to respond with sincerity and reason).

As for the notion of an oppressive Government some time in the future (and unlike some of the comments above, the present Government has not, to date, oppressed the people), it is established that the Governor General of Canada has a duty to exercise whatever powers may be at her disposal to oppress a Government, where such a Government would attempt to oppress Canadians or act in an unlawful manner. We have checks imposed on Governments, and I wouldn't worry too much about the Tories oppressing Canadians without opposition.

 

[Said1]

Re: RE: Peter McKay , Foriegn Minister

Far from being some sort of national disgrace, the Foreign Minister has shown himself capable and every time he speaks this canadian stands up a little more straight.
Beats the hell out of "A proof is a proof. What kind of a proof? It's a proof. A proof is a proof. And when you have a good proof, it's because it's proven"

Or my personal favorite "I can't know everthing about everything all the time....est te, tabournack!". Ok, I added the est te, tabournack.

 

[Karlin]

I don't have anything to add .

Does that help?