Panhandlers

[Dreadful Nonsense]

I don't think legalizing heroin and cocaine is the way to go.

Can you reference the lax drug laws in Switzerland? I'm not familiar with them. In fact, I thought Switzerland was uber strict about that sort of thing.

I agree with you on the legalizing it thing .

If you read unforgiven's post it's what he is saying isn't it.

Maybe you ask him for the final solution in writing:roll:

I saw a documentary on heroin in switzerland. It's very much out in the open and heroin addicts fill the city parks where dealing and shooting is done openly .
Maybe their heroin laws on the books and what they do in practice are two different things.But from what the cbc potrayed it pretty much is let them do their own thing.


These drugs are a scourge on society and the user.Waiting a lifetime for maybe a user to clean up:roll:
It's a lil hard on us don't you think.

But then again where is all this heroin from afghanistan going to be used huh....

I won't repeat here what the dons said on the subject in the godfather movies, concerning their thoughts on the black population useing it.

Maybe our governments just look at drug users as a nessesary hazard to the allowance of drug production.Maybe they view them as just animals anyway.

But they are allowing it...don't kid yerself.
How rampnat is money counterfiting, .... no where near drug trafficking.

And like thats just printing money...it's easy for some to do ....
But it is frowned upon by governments so it's not prevelant in the criminal world....

 

[Ariadne]

I agree with you on the legalizing it thing .

If you read unforgiven's post it's what he is saying isn't it.

Maybe you ask him for the final solution in writing:roll:

I saw a documentary on heroin in switzerland. It's very much out in the open and heroin addicts fill the city parks where dealing and shooting is done openly .
Maybe their heroin laws on the books and what they do in practice are two different things.But from what the cbc portrayed it pretty much is let them do their own thing.


These drugs are a scourge on society and the user.Waiting a lifetime for maybe a user to clean up:roll:
It's a lil hard on us don't you think.

But then again where is all this heroin from afghanistan going to be used huh....

I won't repeat here what the dons said on the subject in the godfather movies, concerning their thoughts on the black population using it.

Maybe our governments just look at drug users as a necessary hazard to the allowance of drug production.Maybe they view them as just animals anyway.

But they are allowing it...don't kid yerself.
How rampant is money counterfeiting, .... no where near drug trafficking.

And like thats just printing money...it's easy for some to do ....
But it is frowned upon by governments so it's not prevalant in the criminal world....

I've been away for a bit and don't have time to read 5 pages, but I always read the first post.
I guess I'll research drug use in Switzerland.

Drug users are not a hazard of drug producers. Drug users are a hazard of the breakdown of society. People fall out of the private circle, out of the loop, out of sight, out of society, and make the wrong coping choices. It happens, but I doubt it has anything to do with drug availability. In fact, there could be enough drugs in the world to drug everyone, but not everyone chooses to use ... so wouldn't that imply that availability has nothing to do with it?

Counterfeiting money is definitely a bit more challenging. You'd think that with all this fancy technology out and about ... with pd somethings and ... that someone could figure out how to print money but nope, they keep going for the untraceable drugs. Go figure.

 

[Kreskin]

Heroin and cocaine addictions are no more curable than pedophilia. It can be managed under the right conditions but they're addictions for life. If pedophilia was caused by a pill do you think we'd hang those who sold it? We would in a heartbeat. How can we take a relaxed approach to the process of people selling drugs that rip apart individuals, families and entire neighbourhoods? As one guy in a Vancouver Eastside video said, if people make the right choices they can get out but they're in no condition to make right choices so they almost never do. Mothers abandon their children in search of their next high. We're to just accept the fact that some are prepared to poison our youth, parents and entire neighbourhoods for profit, and the cost for doing that is a counselling session or a few months in jail? Distributors of this junk need to be removed from society at any financial cost.

BTW, one of these days I'm going to form an opinion on this. ;-)

 

[Unforgiven]

I've been away for a bit and don't have time to read 5 pages, but I always read the first post.
I guess I'll research drug use in Switzerland.

Drug users are not a hazard of drug producers. Drug users are a hazard of the breakdown of society. People fall out of the private circle, out of the loop, out of sight, out of society, and make the wrong coping choices. It happens, but I doubt it has anything to do with drug availability. In fact, there could be enough drugs in the world to drug everyone, but not everyone chooses to use ... so wouldn't that imply that availability has nothing to do with it?

Counterfeiting money is definitely a bit more challenging. You'd think that with all this fancy technology out and about ... with pd somethings and ... that someone could figure out how to print money but nope, they keep going for the untraceable drugs. Go figure.

I see you've met Dave. Sorry, he's a troll that followed a group of us here after he ruined and continues to ruin another message board. While he's on a tight leash here, he still looks for ways to lash out at those who constantly kicked his butt whenever he would try and post crap like he has here. It's only a matter of time before the cross dressing, alcohol and drug abusing, welfare bum gets the punt from this board too.

You should ask me what it is I think rather than listen to Doctor pseudo intellect troll if you want the straight goods.

I have no wish to legalize illicit drugs at all. The topic was panhandlers which touched off a discussion about the impact drug addiction has on the homeless problem and more to the point, East Hastings st. in Vancouver's east side and efforts in harm reduction there.

The premise that the best and only solution is to throw people in jail for life who has sold drugs has been debated and mostly no one has really changed their mind on that.

There is a comparison between states that take a very hard view of drugs and drug addicts and those who attempt to accept that there will always be a drug problem, reduce the harm associated with that addiction and look for methods of getting people in crisis turned around so that they can return to as much of a productive life as manageable. At best that can be viewed as decriminalization. Which if you understand the law, is much different than legalization.

Just understand that Doc Dred here has had a long and deeply festering hatred of me from some deep and creepy idea that I should stick up for him no matter how stupid he gets. An abuse of alcohol and prescription drugs have taken a toll on him I think. He's also a chronic compulsive liar.

 

[Unforgiven]

Heroin and cocaine addictions are no more curable than pedophilia. It can be managed under the right conditions but they're addictions for life. If pedophilia was caused by a pill do you think we'd hang those who sold it? We would in a heartbeat. How can we take a relaxed approach to the process of people selling drugs that rip apart individuals, families and entire neighbourhoods? As one guy in a Vancouver Eastside video said, if people make the right choices they can get out but they're in no condition to make right choices so they almost never do. Mothers abandon their children in search of their next high. We're to just accept the fact that some are prepared to poison our youth, parents and entire neighbourhoods for profit, and the cost for doing that is a counselling session or a few months in jail? Distributors of this junk need to be removed from society at any financial cost.

BTW, one of these days I'm going to form an opinion on this. ;-)

Right, they're addictions for life and they can be managed under the right circumstances. Drug addiction isn't pedophilia and you should stop the attempts at transference. We don't have pedophiles in Canada so we don't hang people who sell drugs. You do understand that don't you?

It's part of the problem to tell lies like drugs rip apart families. It does that no more than alcohol, actually less than alcohol. Not to mention the few hundred other things that rip apart families more than all illicit drugs combined.

Remember when I asked you to back that crap up?

People make the wrong choices all the time. Street racing, poor choice of spouse, wrong investment scheme and so on. You can't lock everyone up. Hell Mother's abandon babies for a good sale on at the mall. Should we lock up all those people who own a business?

There has been a war on drugs since the 70s. There are more drugs now then ever. The heavy handed approach hasn't worked and it's an indication of mental illness to honestly think that something that has consistently failed time and time again will work this time.

Maybe what you want to do Kreskin, is knock off watching these videos that get you so angry. Then maybe you can make a choice as to which side of this issue to come down on.

 

[Kreskin]

Are you suggesting heroin addicts are cured once they they attend rehab? I personally know a male friend who was left with a 13 month old baby (about 2 months ago) when the mother went to the eastside and hasn't come back. We know she's alive but the addiction to hard drugs has not only screwed herself up but also the future of her child, not to mention the difficulty the guy is having trying to be Mr Single Mom and work as a carpenter. (Is that called backing up my crap, or do you need some airy fairy stoner to explain the benefits of heroin to make you happy). She's been to rehab a number of times, and has lost her other 3 children permanently during her other episodes. People don't abandon their babies to street race or shop at the mall. Equating as such is pure scattlogy. Are the distributors of this drug disappointed by her and her family's situation? No, they quite count on people like her (and people like you defending them) to become so hopelessly addicted that they'll do anything to buy more. They're in the business of destroying lives (something you refer to as choices), and appeasers like you continue to make bogus excuses for their ability to walk the streets and do it over and over. There hasn't been a war on drugs. It's not even mentioned in the criminal code. That's some war. It's time we cut through the bs of pro-poisoners and started a real war against these disgusting criminals (sellers).

 

[Unforgiven]

Are you suggesting heroin addicts are cured once they they attend rehab? I personally know a male friend who was left with a 13 month old baby (about 2 months ago) when the mother went to the eastside and hasn't come back. We know she's alive but the addiction to hard drugs has not only screwed herself up but also the future of her child, not to mention the difficulty the guy is having trying to be Mr Single Mom and work as a carpenter. (Is that called backing up my crap, or do you need some airy fairy stoner to explain the benefits of heroin to make you happy). She's been to rehab a number of times, and has lost her other 3 children permanently during her other episodes. People don't abandon their babies to street race or shop at the mall. Equating as such is pure scattlogy. Are the distributors of this drug disappointed by her and her family's situation? No, they quite count on people like her (and people like you defending them) to become so hopelessly addicted that they'll do anything to buy more. They're in the business of destroying lives (something you refer to as choices), and appeasers like you continue to make bogus excuses for their ability to walk the streets and do it over and over. There hasn't been a war on drugs. It's not even mentioned in the criminal code. That's some war. It's time we cut through the bs of pro-poisoners and started a real war against these disgusting criminals (sellers).

Nope I'm saying that addicts are in recovery once they stop using. I did mention that I don't like to use friends as a base for an argument. I've got a friend who has worked as a legal assistant for 12 years while addicted to heroin and coke. So I guess that counters your friend's story. Now what?

No you haven't backed up anything at all yet. IF you think that backing up a position is telling me what allegedly happened to your friend, then you should ask someone to explain this whole "proof" thingy to you.

Like I said at the start, you don't know anything about addiction Kreskin, and as you've shown here, you don't know anything about the supply chain of hard drugs. That the best you can come up with as a resolution is to kill drug dealers, who since you haven't the first clue, are drug addicts themselves, I suspect you have some undisclosed hate on for drug addicts and choose to use this discussion as a way to express your desire to kill off a bunch of people you don't know the first thing about. That's pretty sick man. Eugenics kind of sick.

God only knows who you would turn that on once you've killed off people who use drugs.

 

[Kreskin]

I didn't once say that users of these "products" should be killed off. I have repeatedly referred to the sellers of this crap being removed from our streets for considerable lengths of time. The issue is addiction, and the consequences of this addiction. No one chooses to become an addict, but profiteers choose to create addicts knowing their actions ruin lives. I personally don't care what social or medical excuse they have for starting a 16 year old on heroin. The fact they do is enough for me to remove them from society so they are not once again in a position to ruin the next life and family. Terrorists and murderers have all sorts of excuses too. Excuses aren't good enough, and it's time we sent the message that excuses don't cut it.

 

[Twila]

the facts on illegal drugs
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/crime.htm

I wonder how the stats will look if they took into account all the legal drugs (prescription) that is abused and the consequences of those.....

 

[#juan]

Hold on a tick brother rabbit.
Alcohol? Who is talking about alcohol? You might want to toss in cigarette smoking too while you're at it. ;-)

Let's get real here, all illicit drugs in North America kill 17000, per year est. 2000, down 3000 from 1990.
Source: Journal of the American Medical Association, March 10, 2004, Vol. 291, No. 10, pp. 1238, 1241.

Add to the 9/11 the people in Afghanistan that have been killed during the over throwing of the Taliban as well. Not Iraq because everyone and his dog knows that had nothing to do with 9/11 or terrorism.

I'd like to point out as well that the US has a much tougher method of dealing with drug offenders and a recidivism rate much higher than Canada and a much larger problem too. If in fact getting tough worked, then that would not be the case at all.

If you want to limit this to just illicit drugs that is fine. Alcohol was mentioned earlier. I'll even accept your number of 17,000. Kreskin stated that the drug problem dwarfed 9/11 and it does.

 

[Avro]

I'm not talking about cannibis. I'm talking about the lax mentality around all drugs in general. Hell we provide accomodations and healthcare professionals for them to shoot up. That isn't liberal? The Netherlands is no more liberal than we are when it comes to hard drugs.

Drug use overall is lower in drug lax countries like Canada and the Netherlands compared to the United States and it's so called war on drugs.

Are you suggesting we go down the same route as them?

Try again.

 

[Unforgiven]

If you want to limit this to just illicit drugs that is fine. Alcohol was mentioned earlier. I'll even accept your number of 17,000. Kreskin stated that the drug problem dwarfed 9/11 and it does.

I think we need to puts some labels on things here then because I sure don't see it.

Start with what you mean by the drug problem dwarfing the ripples caused by the attack on 9/11. Define the drug problem and define as well 9/11.

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

the post is the thing unf..not this personnal chit....for the record .I'm not on welfare....never have been....

now as per your posts you tell us what your solution is all about,you DEMAND others to tell you their's.

unf's posts that led me to believe he wants heroin and cocaine legalised.

Drug addicts are manageable and what's more, under the right care, they can become productive again to the point of supporting themselves with but a few services to care for the things like drugs, medical and counseling. While that may run into the tens of thousands per year, it isn't even close to what it costs to keep someone in a prison cell for the same year

So repeating the phrase, lock them up and throw away the key, and Drugs are bad, doesn't do anything at all. Cripes Half a million people a year are arrested for pot alone. Do you think you can't buy pot from any high school in any city in Canada? Come on Kreskin, think it over. The war on drugs was lost. Long time ago. It's over, let it go

Consider what it is that ruins someones life when drugs become a problem. It's the high cost of the drug. The stigma attached to a criminal conviction. Where will someone work with a record? Nothing but low end low pay jobs.
People don't suffer addiction for fun.

And now clearly unf writes:

The only way to stop that is to take control of the market. Like Gas, would you pay a buck a litre of you could buy it down town for 7 cents a litre? There would be no gas stations in sight in less than a year. Once done then you can control and regulate that market until it is under control like alcohol. While there are still alcoholics, there are facilities to deal with that. Though always given short shrift.

The only way to stop that is to take control of the market. Like Gas, would you pay a buck a litre of you could buy it down town for 7 cents a litre? There would be no gas stations in sight in less than a year. Once done then you can control and regulate that market until it is under control like alcohol. While there are still alcoholics, there are facilities to deal with that. Though always given short shrift.

So thats the reason i posted my post saying you want heroin and cocaine to be legalised.....i know i threw your fighting and name calling to a short end by posting that you want it legalised, sorry for interfereing with your fun.

 

[#juan]

I think we need to puts some labels on things here then because I sure don't see it.

Start with what you mean by the drug problem dwarfing the ripples caused by the attack on 9/11. Define the drug problem and define as well 9/11.

Nowhere did I even say "ripples". 9/11 killed something over 3,000 people. Drugs kill many times that every year. The bombing of Afghanistan, and the invasion and occupation of Iraq, and subsequent deaths were the actions of a president and his administration who don't have a clue what they are doing. Another president might have done something entirely different.

 

[Unforgiven]

Drinking already or something? That last post isn't even coherent. Saying I want drugs like heroin, crack and crystal meth legalized is a failure on your part to form your own opinion, and explain it. Business as usual.

There is a lot of ground between life in prison or the death sentence, and selling crack and smack in the liquor store.

Go get a job moocher. Oh yeah I forgot, you're in therapy. :roll:

 

[Unforgiven]

Nowhere did I even say "ripples". 9/11 killed something over 3,000 people. Drugs kill many times that every year. The bombing of Afghanistan, and the invasion and occupation of Iraq, and subsequent deaths were the actions of a president and his administration who don't have a clue what they are doing. Another president might have done something entirely different.

And so are 17,000 deaths a year. Most are preventable but for the war on drugs and treating it like a crime instead of an illness. Just look at the countries with a reduction of harm approach to illicit drugs and you can see that.

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

As per this post here :

The only way to stop that is to take control of the market. Like Gas, would you pay a buck a litre of you could buy it down town for 7 cents a litre? There would be no gas stations in sight in less than a year. Once done then you can control and regulate that market until it is under control like alcohol. While there are still alcoholics, there are facilities to deal with that. Though always given short shrift.

Heroin and cocaine are far far far more addicting that alcohol....You flamed someone for not knowing a thing about addiction.....

It takes years to actually become addicted to alcohol before one can no longer function without it.
Heroin,17 days.
Cocaine I have no idea for i loathe the product. For me it's an insane thing to use, never liked it, done prolly 5 times in entire life when i was an alcoholic drug addict.

My own views on tobacco. From 13 to 37 i smoked. usually 2 large king pacs a day of du maurier reg strenght.....when i quit...it was like 3 days of obvious weirdness, still could function though. Then it became a character thing...I realised it was a killer and no longer craved it....

So whats with the make it a controlled substance and watch and see what it does to society....it's not alcohol..at all...period...weed is not alcohol....I can, as an alcoholic, drink a couple of glasses of wine over the course of a meal and leave it at that...all i get is this healthy feeling that i'm not 52...LOL.

I am an aclcoholic and did not touch a drop for about 11 years.

I always desried to be a normal person with alcohol and now i am....I have booze in the house and go weeks without touching a drop.....sometimes months and then it's 3 to 4 ounces of Glenlivet over the course of an evening.....Hell last New years had a party at me house and drank 3 glasses of wine at dinner and then about half a 26 er of glenlivet.....no problem...woke up feeling like 110 and remebered that joy...lol....didn't touch anything for a week till we went visiting family.....
I do have to take note of the amount i drink and realize what it is to me, for i am an alcoholic...I am not the same as other people that are normal drinkers...there is ALWAYS a task at hand....but i would not be able to control my percocette and barbituate addiction as easily..given a a jar of those babies and i would be lost.....


Can you do this with Heroin....no fukcing way...it's not the same thing....you shoot the stuff nod out into total never never land and come back and have to wait to be semi normal.....
Weed ...does anyone smoke it to not get high and just be social like toasting with a glass of wine....is that really what you do...be honest...ok even weak weed one toke and yer high...specially if it's the first of the day......not the same thing as aclcohol...be honest....

or tobacco and coffee for that matter....

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

Drinking already or something? That last post isn't even coherent. Saying I want drugs like heroin, crack and crystal meth legalized is a failure on your part to form your own opinion, and explain it. Business as usual.

There is a lot of ground between life in prison or the death sentence, and selling crack and smack in the liquor store.

Go get a job moocher. Oh yeah I forgot, you're in therapy. :roll:

Well i dunno unf all i did was quote you.....

so you gonna make clear your stance on the solution or just continue to troll the thread.

 

[Unforgiven]

As per this post here :

Heroin and cocaine are far far far more addicting that alcohol....You flamed someone for not knowing a thing about addiction.....

It takes years to actually become addicted to alcohol before one can no longer function without it.
Heroin,17 days.
Cocaine I have no idea for i loathe the product. For me it's an insane thing to use, never liked it, done prolly 5 times in entire life when i was an alcoholic drug addict.

My own views on tobacco. From 13 to 37 i smoked. usually 2 large king pacs a day of du maurier reg strenght.....when i quit...it was like 3 days of obvious weirdness, still could function though. Then it became a character thing...I realised it was a killer and no longer craved it....

So whats with the make it a controlled substance and watch and see what it does to society....it's not alcohol..at all...period...weed is not alcohol....I can, as an alcoholic, drink a couple of glasses of wine over the course of a meal and leave it at that...all i get is this healthy feeling that i'm not 52...LOL.

I am an aclcoholic and did not touch a drop for about 11 years.

I always desried to be a normal person with alcohol and now i am....I have booze in the house and go weeks without touching a drop.....sometimes months and then it's 3 to 4 ounces of Glenlivet over the course of an evening.....Hell last New years had a party at me house and drank 3 glasses of wine at dinner and then about half a 26 er of glenlivet.....no problem...woke up feeling like 110 and remebered that joy...lol....didn't touch anything for a week till we went visiting family.....
I do have to take note of the amount i drink and realize what it is to me, for i am an alcoholic...I am not the same as other people that are normal drinkers...there is ALWAYS a task at hand....but i would not be able to control my percocette and barbituate addiction as easily..given a a jar of those babies and i would be lost.....


Can you do this with Heroin....no fukcing way...it's not the same thing....you shoot the stuff nod out into total never never land and come back and have to wait to be semi normal.....
Weed ...does anyone smoke it to not get high and just be social like toasting with a glass of wine....is that really what you do...be honest...ok even weak weed one toke and yer high...specially if it's the first of the day......not the same thing as aclcohol...be honest....

or tobacco and coffee for that matter....

Yet look at all the alcoholics. I mean the alcoholics who can't have 3 or 4 Glenlivet and then that it so they get this like happy feeling. Plus that it takes so long to become an alcoholic, teens can still get there before they hit their twenties.

But it's not about Your views on tobacco, your alcoholism, your drug problem, or your weird sex/booze/drug life on some pontoon boat.

It's about how to treat addicts to get the best result.

But I don't think you can handle that concept with your sole intent here to bait me into another flame war, kill yet another thread and hijack the thread.

Why don't you go tell us all about your dream of the Sea Ray somewhere.

:tard:

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

8O

Yet look at all the alcoholics. I mean the alcoholics who can't have 3 or 4 Glenlivet and then that it so they get this like happy feeling. Plus that it takes so long to become an alcoholic, teens can still get there before they hit their twenties.

But it's not about Your views on tobacco, your alcoholism, your drug problem, or your weird sex/booze/drug life on some pontoon boat.

It's about how to treat addicts to get the best result.

But I don't think you can handle that concept with your sole intent here to bait me into another flame war, kill yet another thread and hijack the thread.

Why don't you go tell us all about your dream of the Sea Ray somewhere.

:tard:

8O