Panhandlers

[Unforgiven]

I suppose using the same logic as the drug issue you might want to legalize murder and rape, however you'll have a far bigger murder and rape problem than there is now.

People aren't living in the streets because of marijuana. What has caused places like the downtown eastside of Vancouver to disintegrate is meth, cocaine and heroin, and the unofficial, and at times even official, condoned possession and use of them (shooting galleries). The lack of penalty for producing and pushing death products in our streets; methampetamines included (a maximum 10 year sentence under the CDSA). When was the last time anyone served a maximum sentence? Sellers know that the return far exceeds the risk. The present-day do-nothing approach has not worked. Anyone caught producing meth should be gone for life, no parole for 25. We wouldn't treat a terrorist building explosives any different, even though terrorists don't cause the degree of problems that drug traffickers do. The intent of traffickers is to get people hopelessly addicted to life and family-ruining drugs for material gain. It's utter nonsense that we don't prosecute them like we would any other terrorists.

Sure we should treat everyone like a murderer rapist. Clearly some 15 year old selling meth to his friend in school should be sent down for 25 years to life. Not to mention housed in population with the worst of the worst. That why when they get out at 40 or 45 years of age they will be so messed up, like your basic Charles Manson that they can really do some crime. Like Murder and Rape.

"Shooting Galleries" also known as safe injection sites, that have been running in Vancouver's east side have been a great success according to the Canadian Medical Association Journal, in reducing the HIV infection rate among addicts using the site as well as helping to get more junkies out of the grip of their addiction, not to mention preventing deaths by over dosing.

http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2006/11/20/injection-study.html

By far the vast majority of people who traffic drugs are users themselves. They do it to support their habit. The person you're thinking of is far removed from the person selling drugs on the street. As I've mentioned, if you really want to go and get the bad guys, then gather your army and head to the countries that produce heroin and cocaine and have yourself another war. Just like the last wars that Nixon, Reagan and Bush have waged on those drugs. Sorry did someone say record crop of heroin this year out of Afghanistan?
Go yell at the ****ing wind Kreskin and see if that gets it to stop blowing.

453 addicted over dosed at the clinic. That is 453 people who didn't die because medical help was there on the spot.

Just as an experiment, on one of your days off, dress up as though you are looking for work, and make yourself a phony resume. In whatever field you like, mention though, that you have been incarcerated for 10 years due to your heroin addiction and see which employers call you in for an interview.

Please post the results here if you will.
Dumping someone in jail for a long term, punishing them for that time and then dumping them on the streets and expecting them to get a good job and become a productive member of society is just plain stupid.

You can't beat goodness into someone I'm afraid.
As for the do nothing approach, nothing more than rhetoric.

 

[Kreskin]

I'm all for blowing the crap out out drug producing regions. I highly recommend using more military resources to carpet bomb the likes of Columbian drug fields.

When I drove through the eastside the other evening I saw a woman crouched in a doorway shooting up. It was plain to see she was all for the shooting gallery and HIV safeguards..don't they all think so rationally when addicted to hardcore drugs?

One of these days you should fly out the eastside and see for yourself what is actually going on. Your fantasy dreamworld is not coming to fruition. It's an appalling mess of nutcases created by useless do-good drug programs and the do-nothing justice system. It's obvious that was has been tried to-date has not worked one iota. If it's been awhile since you've been there I recommend you come out right away to see the disgusting and exponentially increasing mess created by liberal drug laws.

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

But I'd like to hear how you are going to stop the supply. I'd like to point out the record crop of poppies in Afghanistan this year despite military efforts to eradicate the crop.

There is only a few isolated exchange growing poppies for other crops..USA is profitting from the poppy production and the stats are still 70% of the world production pre invasion of Afhagnistan and now 85% production under the protection and distribution of the USA..there is no dent in the production..It's not the first time Yankee traders dealt in opium.

 

[Unforgiven]

I'm all for blowing the crap out out drug producing regions. I highly recommend using more military resources to carpet bomb the likes of Columbian drug fields.

When I drove through the eastside the other evening I saw a woman crouched in a doorway shooting up. It was plain to see she was all for the shooting gallery and HIV safeguards..don't they all think so rationally when addicted to hardcore drugs?

One of these days you should fly out the eastside and see for yourself what is actually going on. Your fantasy dreamworld is not coming to fruition. It's an appalling mess of nutcases created by useless do-good drug programs and the do-nothing justice system. It's obvious that was has been tried to-date has not worked one iota. If it's been awhile since you've been there I recommend you come out right away to see the disgusting and exponentially increasing mess created by liberal drug laws.

Then prepare to accept the responsibility for people who've lost their families to carpet bombing to visit terrorism upon you and your loved one's in the form of 9/11 attacks.

Not to mention keep your guard up because once we lock up the drug addicts, homeless, vagrants, and petty criminals, we can start on the lazy, low producers and mouthy complainers. Finally we can just get on with locking up those who speak against the system, might cause problems and those we just don't like the looks of. You fit in there somewhere.

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

I'm all for blowing the crap out out drug producing regions. I highly recommend using more military resources to carpet bomb the likes of Columbian drug fields.

When I drove through the eastside the other evening I saw a woman crouched in a doorway shooting up. It was plain to see she was all for the shooting gallery and HIV safeguards..don't they all think so rationally when addicted to hardcore drugs?

One of these days you should fly out the eastside and see for yourself what is actually going on. Your fantasy dreamworld is not coming to fruition. It's an appalling mess of nutcases created by useless do-good drug programs and the do-nothing justice system. It's obvious that was has been tried to-date has not worked one iota. If it's been awhile since you've been there I recommend you come out right away to see the disgusting and exponentially increasing mess created by liberal drug laws.

sigh...If the governments wanted the production to be eradicated do you honestly think you would have areas the size of small countries producing it....

Middle class thinking. sorry...time to wake up about whats really happening....

britain was partially built on the opium trade.People were knighted for chrissakes sakes....Yankee traders got in on it as well near the end of the hay day....

85% of the herioin in Canada is coming from poppies grown where Our soldiers hand out chocolate to kids harvesting the stuff.....


it's hilarious to think you think our governments really care...

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

PSST the Taliban no longer profit from opium...do you honestly think that uncle sam is going to allow their NO.1 enmey to profit from something there soldiers watch travel by, by the truckload to pakistan and Iran....

:lol: yer kidding yerselves....

 

[Kreskin]

Then prepare to accept the responsibility for people who've lost their families to carpet bombing to visit terrorism upon you and your loved one's in the form of 9/11 attacks.

Not to mention keep your guard up because once we lock up the drug addicts, homeless, vagrants, and petty criminals, we can start on the lazy, low producers and mouthy complainers. Finally we can just get on with locking up those who speak against the system, might cause problems and those we just don't like the looks of. You fit in there somewhere.

A petty problem? It's the biggest problem we have. It's as bad as it gets. Compared to this, 9-11 doesn't even register as a problem.

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

I think begging has been part of the human condition since we started.
There are a plethora of reasons for it. My brother begs due to schizophrenia...he uses no drugs or alcohol, but to see him you would think so.
If he was forced to take his drugs he prolly would own a house and cottage by now.....He was great working with autistic kids and that was his calling......sigh.

I think hard core drug users just don't give a chit....About them selves or anyone for that matter....what ever put them there....I've used heroin.
Never allowed myself to get hooked though..I knew the implications for that sort of habit would turn me criminal..I mean you really have to have some sort of death wish and not really give a chit..



although i did do a stint in addiction research foundation for addictions .to be honest ...drowning myself in prescription drugs and alcohol for years.....not really a productive person would you not say....hell i should have been jailed and taught a hardcore lesson....

I have no use for addicts of any kind...wasters......been there....not there now.....Hardcore drug dealers need to be really locked up in a bad situation....ok the kid is 15 and he decides to deal crystal....sorry dude for the sake of society yer going to the big bad house....

Jailed for life ,,nah.....jailed in hardcore prison where it's hard to survive ..why not....
For some of us you need the heavy hand of the law to come down on you to straighten out...only problem is we don't have the heavy law to come on down for criminals in club fed.

but some kid offering to annoy you with making yer window a little dirtier for a handout...come on....toss him'her a loonie at least before he wrecks yer window....if you can afford it.....then a quarter...if you can't hand out 5 or 6 quarters in a day during a walk about downtown you could use a handout too...lol

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

although i did do a stint in addiction research foundation for addictions .to be honest ...drowning myself in prescription drugs and alcohol for years.....not really a productive person would you not say....hell i should have been jailed and taught a hardcore lesson....

well i actually did not do anything crimianl so hardcore jail would not be an option....but i don't see hardcore jail time as something bad.....
for me..i worked things out myself.....the reasons are well known here why i would choose trying to live in a coma.....but still ..i never stole a dime , or hurt someone in my life to better myself or fulfill my needs.......Buit thats me...anyone hurting society should pay...big time....end of story...but i also really believe our governments are just being lieilng hypocrites about the opium trade...my sources are Afghanies that saw trucks going by soldiers and are convinced the usa is the new drug overloard in afghanistan.

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

Kreskin

Drug dealing governments and middle class thinking.
I used your post to make a point...i'm sure you see my point...and yet i resort to my own concept of middle class thinking to jail drug dealers....


just reflecting on the post.lol

 

[Twila]

my daughters father is a heroin addict. Has been doing time since he was 18yrs old and stabbed somebody who'd raped a friend. He's now doing federal time. Tried to run over a cop. He has ruined his liver and requires dialysis which he can only get on this side of the fence by staying clean. So he's committed a crime that's netted him 2yrs over and gets dialysis regularily and still gets high.

He will never be clean. He is a product of his environment. He only succeeds while in jail (is artistic, creative and is able to maintain a semblence of a schedule). He now can only survive in jail. For a drug dealer doing time in jail is a vacation period. Time to reflect, and meet new contacts.

If anyone here thinks prison is the best place for dealers they know neither the correctional system nor drug dealer mentality.

It's not about the supply. It's about the mental state that invites addiction.

Again, I ask, why is it that North America is having such a hard time with drug addiction? The Netherlands have no where near the crime, addiction, nor disease problems that we have here. I provided the link in a earlier post

 

[Kreskin]

The Netherlands legalized cocaine and heroin? I don't think so.

 

[Unforgiven]

A petty problem? It's the biggest problem we have. It's as bad as it gets. Compared to this, 9-11 doesn't even register as a problem.

By all means show me.

 

[#juan]

Alcohol and illicit drugs claim approximately half a million people every year in North America. 9/11 claimed what, 3500? This is surprising but I think it is right.

 

[Avro]

I'm all for blowing the crap out out drug producing regions. I highly recommend using more military resources to carpet bomb the likes of Columbian drug fields.

When I drove through the eastside the other evening I saw a woman crouched in a doorway shooting up. It was plain to see she was all for the shooting gallery and HIV safeguards..don't they all think so rationally when addicted to hardcore drugs?

One of these days you should fly out the eastside and see for yourself what is actually going on. Your fantasy dreamworld is not coming to fruition. It's an appalling mess of nutcases created by useless do-good drug programs and the do-nothing justice system. It's obvious that was has been tried to-date has not worked one iota. If it's been awhile since you've been there I recommend you come out right away to see the disgusting and exponentially increasing mess created by liberal drug laws.

Liberal drug laws? The laws aren't liberal enough.

Why is it cannibis use is more than double in the strict drug control country of the U.S. (12.3%) than that of the liberal drug policy country of the Netherlands(5.24%).

Try again.

 

[Kreskin]

Liberal drug laws? The laws aren't liberal enough.

Why is it cannibis use is more than double in the strict drug control country of the U.S. (12.3%) than that of the liberal drug policy country of the Netherlands(5.24%).

Try again.

I'm not talking about cannibis. I'm talking about the lax mentality around all drugs in general. Hell we provide accomodations and healthcare professionals for them to shoot up. That isn't liberal? The Netherlands is no more liberal than we are when it comes to hard drugs.

 

[Ariadne]

snip

It's an appalling mess of nutcases created by useless do-good drug programs and the do-nothing justice system. It's obvious that was has been tried to-date has not worked one iota. If it's been awhile since you've been there I recommend you come out right away to see the disgusting and exponentially increasing mess created by liberal drug laws.

I think that social service programs are often too eager to throw money at a problem without carefully exploring the implementation. It's almost an unnecessary urgency to have the program "now" whereas a 2 or 5 year study of how similar programs have had successes in other countries, like the Netherlands, would assist in ensuring the success of the program. It's unfortunate, but IMO, it seems to be the way things are often done. Conversely, when organizations do want to do assessments and studies, people complain that the problem is now and research only wastes valuable time and resources. I suppose a final problem is that research money is often wasted on theoretical nonsense, expensive travels, and other frivolous money wasters. Solution? Better overall management of resources to ensure appropriate studies are envisioned, developed, followed through, and then implemented. What has happened in Vancouver is certainly not a model that other cities would want to follow, but they could sure learn about what not to do.

You know what might help is a re-structuring of the organization. For example, administrators in schools are teachers that couldn't get into management programs so they became teachers and then got bumped into administration - but that certainly doesn't mean they're qualified to manage. Similarly, I wouldn't be surprised if management in social service departments are people like social workers that completed the 2 year course based (joke of a) university degree and then manage problems like drug distribution and drug weaning programs.

 

[Unforgiven]

Alcohol and illicit drugs claim approximately half a million people every year in North America. 9/11 claimed what, 3500? This is surprising but I think it is right.

Hold on a tick brother rabbit.
Alcohol? Who is talking about alcohol? You might want to toss in cigarette smoking too while you're at it. ;-)

Let's get real here, all illicit drugs in North America kill 17000, per year est. 2000, down 3000 from 1990.
Source: Journal of the American Medical Association, March 10, 2004, Vol. 291, No. 10, pp. 1238, 1241.

Add to the 9/11 the people in Afghanistan that have been killed during the over throwing of the Taliban as well. Not Iraq because everyone and his dog knows that had nothing to do with 9/11 or terrorism.

I'd like to point out as well that the US has a much tougher method of dealing with drug offenders and a recidivism rate much higher than Canada and a much larger problem too. If in fact getting tough worked, then that would not be the case at all.

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

so unf ya think legalizing heroin and cocaine is the way to go?
this is what you are getting at right?
And places like switzerland with uber lax laws on heroin have an epidemic,in plain sight in city parks everywhere...it's the easiest place in the west to score good heroin....plague

I'm sorry sluffers and wasters need a heavy hand, for their own good.
I'm not talking about a lil weed here.....
God for a guy who wants our kids brought up by the government, placed in mandatory army,....oh i get it...the heroin is to tolerate your other ideas.....

 

[Ariadne]

so unf ya think legalizing heroin and cocaine is the way to go?
this is what you are getting at right?
And places like switzerland with uber lax laws on heroin have an epidemic,in plain sight in city parks everywhere...it's the easiest place in the west to score good heroin....plague

I'm sorry sluffers and wasters need a heavy hand, for their own good.
I'm not talking about a lil weed here.....
God for a guy who wants our kids brought up by the government, placed in mandatory army,....oh i get it...the heroin is to tolerate your other ideas.....

I don't think legalizing heroin and cocaine is the way to go.

Can you reference the lax drug laws in Switzerland? I'm not familiar with them. In fact, I thought Switzerland was uber strict about that sort of thing.