Palestinian Israeli conflict - History and Current Events

[earth_as_one]

Most people know little about the Palestinian?Israel conflict. Our news shocks us with horrific images, but seldom informs us about how this region has become so screwed up.

The short answer is the UN, the west and Europe are responsible for turning what was until recently a peaceful corner of the world into a war zone.

The long answer is far more complex and I will try to present the facts as honestly as I know them. I am also open to the fact that I don't know everything about this conflict and I've never been to Israel or Palestine. But in this day of the internet, all the information is on the web somewhere.

As a refence, I am posting a link to the "If Americans Knew" website.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/about_us/

This website deals with many common held but mistaken beliefs Americans have about the Palestinian/Israeli conflict.


This map shows who owned what before the UN created Israel:

http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Maps/Story573.html

In 1946 Jews were clearly a minority in Palestine.

Before the UN created Israel in 1947, hundreds of thousands of non-Jews who were the majority legally owned and occupied most of what is now Israel.

These people who lived in this area before Zionism should have had rights as as landowners.

In 1947, the UN recognized Jewish immigrant claims to this land based on ancient history and ignored the rights of people already living in Palestine.

A little history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine

In 135 AD, Romans expelled all Jews from what is today Israel/Palestine. This historical injustice was committed over 1800 years ago. The descendants have no more legal right to this land than the decendants of every other historical injustice for the last 1800 years have rights. Technically, Rome was an empire governed by law, and what the empire did was legal according to its laws. Yes I think what happened was wrong, but human history has a very long list of injustices.

The descendants of these people have no claim on this land based on that distant historical injustice, just like all of us who probably have at least one ancestor who was wronged at some time in the past.

Even though the Jews were expelled, the lands were never emptied. Other people besides Jews lived there before, during and after the Jewish expulsion. These people had legal ownership of the land. They then transferred that ownership to others.

Since that time, this area has been invaded and occupied many times, leading to many other historical injustices. The descendants of these victims of more recent historical injustices have no rights to the land either.

After the Ottomans conquered this area in 1516, it became relatively stable for 400 years. The Ottomans governed all citizens including Muslims Muslims, Jews and Chrisitians by a relatively just legal system which recognized property ownership.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire#Law

Jews and Christians may have suffered some discrimination from the Muslim majority, but Jews and Christians were far better treated by the Ottomans than Jews and Muslims were in Europe. The legal system basically required people regardless of religion, to pay their taxes and in return the empire protected them. Citizens in this kingdom had rights which included property ownership. Each village (Muslim, Jewish, Chrisitian etc...) was also allowed to make their own laws as long as they didn't conflict with Ottoman law. While under the Ottoman rule, Muslims, Jews and Christains lived together relatively peacefully and shared mutual respect.

In WW I, the Ottoman empire collapsed and area known as Palestine became a British Mandate. Under the British mandate, Palestinians (Muslims, Jews, Chrisitians...etc.) continued to have legal ownership of their properties.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_of_Palestine

That brings us to the point where the UN partitioned Palestine reserving land for a Jewish state. The UN made that decision without consulting the inhabitants or the neighboring countries. Its purpose was to solve a post WW II European Jewish refugee problem by allowing them to emigrate to a new Jewish state in Palestine. While this solution solved Europe's problems, it created a new problem for the Palestinian people and neighboring countries.

At the time the UN decision was made, hundreds of thousands of Jewish refugees had already fled to this area to avoid the horrors of Nazi occupied Europe. Even before Hitler, a movement called Zionism (a Jewish homeland in the Land of Israel) had already begun. WW II just accelerated the movement. Before the Zionist movement began in 1870, only only 2% of Palestinians were Jewish.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/maps.html#ref

At that time, Palestine was no more Jewish than the United States is today.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/jewpop.html

Now its 80% Jewish.

Even with hundreds of thousands of Jewish refugees emigrating to Palestine, Jews were still a minority Jews were still a minority when the UN partitioned Palestine in 1946 giving most of Palestine for a Jewish state.

The Jewish refugees were immigrants to these lands despite their claim that their ancestors lived here 1800 years earlier and that they had a divine right to this land. But legally, they were still immigrants and they could buy land from the legal owners.

Until this mass migration, Jews and Muslims had lived together in relative peace. The new Zionist immigrants claimed Palestine as their divine right. This created tension between the new immigrants and hundreds of thousands of non-Jews who legally owned most of the land even after the UN partition. The Zionists wanted these people to leave even though most wanted to stay. The new Jewish immigrants wanted the non-Jewish occupants off their divinely granted lands. Inevitably this conflict led to war.

You can read about about the causes of the war of Israeli independance here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab-Israeli_War

Even though its hard to get the objective facts about who did what to whom, I think its safe to say atrocities were committed on all sides.

When full scale war broke out in 1947, the fighting was mostly between the heavily armed, well trained Jewish immigrants and disorganized, poorly trained and armed foreign Muslim armies from Egypt, Syria, Jordan...etc.

Most Palestinians (Muslims, Christians and Jews) were poor, unarmed and more focused on trying to make a living in the middle of a war zone. We are talking about farmers, businessmen, peasants... Yes some Palestinians participated in the war. Muslims tended to side with the Muslim foreigners and Jews tended to side with the Jewish foreignors. But the overwhelming majority of Palestinians, (Muslim, Chrisitian and Jew,) stayed out of the fighting. (See the links above about the war and its participants. Few of the nearly million Palestinian participated in the war.)

When the Jewish immigrants defeated the mostly foreign Muslim armies, they turned their attention to ethnically cleansing their newly acquired territories of non-Jews, most of whom had lived in Palestine for centuries. The term ethnic cleansing isn't an exageration. Its well documented that the Jewish armies raped, pillaged and murdered non-Jews to encourage them to flee Palestine in terror.

http://www.logosjournal.com/morris.htm

http://www.alnakba.org/

http://www.deiryassin.org/index1.html

I can find many links supporting this historical fact.

Using terror tactics to make people flee for their lives isn't the same as leaving voluntarily.

I am not claiming that immigrant Jews weren't also subjected to atrocities by Muslims during this period. What I am claiming is that the Jews won this conflict and then proceeded to ethnically cleans Israel of non-Jews.

The red dots on this map show depopulated non-Jewish villages.

http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Maps/Story572.html

After the war, the new state of Israel passed the Absentees' Property Law.

...The Absentees’ Property Law defines persons who were expelled, fled, or who left the country between 1948-1952, mainly due to the 1948 War, as well as their movable and immovable property, as absentee. Property belonging to absentees (mainly land, apartments and bank accounts) was put under control of the Custodian for Absentees’ Property, subordinate to the State of Israel (Adalah: The Legal Center for Arab Minority Rights in Israel 1998). Since 1948, all Absentee properties, including properties of the Islamic Waqf, have been under a series of transfers that place them under various authorities culminating in a process of privatization. Through this process, the ownership of these lands will be formally transferred from the State to kibbutzim, moshavim and private companies, without state control.

In real numbers, the creation of the State of Israel displaced some 700,000 Palestinians of whom 100,000 remained on the land and were naturalized as Israeli citizens. Further, some 32,000 Palestinians were internally displaced and prevented from returning to their land, although they are/were Israeli citizens (Badil Resource Center). As a result of the 1967 War, hundreds of thousands of Palestinians became refugees, many for a second time, and most have not been allowed to exercise their right of return. Today, Palestinians constitute the largest group of refugees in the world at approximately 5 million.

http://www.arts.mcgill.ca/mepp/new_prrn/research/papers/ittijah.htm

This Israeli law is in effect state sanctions theft of property based on race and religion since it was only applied to non-Jews.

As a result of war and the above law Israel became predominantly Jewish owned and occupied. Its also how 5 million Palestinians became landless refugees.

Since that time, Israel has continued seizing the properties of non-Jews. Worse, the people who refuse to leave have have suffered oppression, injustice, criminal behavior, war crimes committed by individual Israelis and the State of Israel. The people who left live in the hopeless and poverty of refugee camps.

These websites by objective sources back up my statements:

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/settlements.html

>>>

Israel/Occupied Territories
Human Rights Concerns
Amnesty USA

http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/israel_and_occupied_territories/index.do

Israel and the Occupied Territories - Recent Amnesty International Annual Reports

http://web.amnesty.org/report2005/isr-summary-eng

http://web.amnesty.org/report2006/isr-summary-eng

>>>

Human Rights Watch:
Israel/Occupied Palestinian Territories

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2006/01/18/isrlpa12224.htm

Far too few people know little to nothing of the suffering of non-Jewish Palestinians.

Our news has chosen sides. They always report the periodic violence committed against Israelis by individual Palestinians and Palestinian militant groups:

Israel's history of bomb blasts

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1197051.stm

But seldom report the daily violence committed against Palestinians by the State of Israel and individual Israelis.

I'm not asking anyone to take sides. What I'm asking is that you put yourself in the shoes of a Palestinian for a moment and try to understand how they feel.

Reflections of a Native Son

I was born on a hill overlooking Ein Kerem. From the top of that hill, one could easily see the skyline of Jerusalem during the day and its shining lights during the night. My father managed a resort run by the Anglican Church atop Jebel El-Rab (the hill of God). On Sundays, dignified people (including many Jews and foreigners) would come there for tea and dessert. Down in the valley where the beautiful village, known for its greenery, gardens, and scenic landscape, was nestled, the fields would be dotted with groups of picnickers from Jerusalem, out for a relaxing day in the country. Ein Kerem is the birthplace of John the Baptist and Mary is said to have visited it before giving birth to Jesus.

It was an Arab village until 1948, with some Christians and some Muslims. It is now part of Jewish West Jerusalem, and no Arabs live there, the village having been emptied of its original inhabitants in 1948....

http://www.alnakba.org/testimony/fouad.htm

Non-Jewish Palestinians also include many Christians:

From the Memoirs of Father Audeh Rantisi

I cannot forget three horror-filled days in July of 1948. The pain sears my memory, and I cannot rid myself of it no matter how hard I try.

First, Israeli soldiers forced thousands of Palestinians from their homes near the Mediterranean coast, even though some families had lived in the same houses for centuries. (My family had been in the town of Lydda in Palestine at least 1,600 years). Then, without water, we stumbled into the hills and continued for three deadly days. The Jewish soldiers followed, occasionally shooting over our heads to scare us and keep us moving. Terror filled my eleven-year-old mind as I wondered what would happen. I remembered overhearing my father and his friends express alarm about recent massacres by Jewish terrorists. Would they kill us, too?

We did not know what to do, except...

http://www.alnakba.org/testimony/audeh.htm

Palestinians are human beings deserving of the same fundamental human rights the rest of us take for granted. Nearly five million Palestinian refugees have been displaced from from what is today Israel. Its the world's biggest refuggee problem, yet seldom does our news mention this.

Pro-Israeli selective truths has created a lot of confusion about this conflict.

http://www.fromoccupiedpalestine.org/node.php?id=1353

Listening to pro-Israeli selective truths creates about as accurate a perception of events as one would have if they listened to a radio broadcast of a boxing match, and the announcer only mentions the blows delivered by one boxer. Yes the information is accurate, but its not complete or in context. Its purpose is to manipulate rather than inform. Therefore most of what we know about this conflict is subjective and based on one side's selective truth propaganda.

But selective truth propaganda can be offset by considering all selective truth propaganda from all sides.

This site has selective truth propaganda from a Palestinian perspective.

http://www.fromoccupiedpalestine.org/index.php?or=203

Here are some categories I recommend reading to balance your perspective:

Children and the Israel-Palestine Conflict

http://fromoccupiedpalestine.org/index.php?or=111


War crimes and the Israeli occupation

http://fromoccupiedpalestine.org/index.php?or=92

Suicide bombing

http://www.fromoccupiedpalestine.org/index.php?or=233

After all my research I have come to these conclusions about the Palestinian Israeli conflict:

The root cause of this conflict was Nazi Germany's genocide of European Jews.

Post WW II Europe used their power in the UN to transfer the burden of the European Jewish refugee problem onto the people of Palestine.

Creating the state of Israel without consulting the people in Palestine and neighboring countries was a mistake.

The invasion of new state of Israel by neighboring nations was a mistake.

Doing nothing while Israel ethnically cleansed Palestine was a mistake.

Doing nothing about the 5 million Palestinian refugees is a mistake.

So well here we are with a simmering war, threatening to become a hot war threatening the entire middle east and the world had plenty of opportunities to stop it from progressing to this point.

I feel for both Israelis and Palestinians. Too many of our leaders have been guided by ambition and greed rather than a desire for peace and justice. I don't see any way continued war until a final cataclysmic battle can be avoided.

Allowing 5 million Palestinian refugees back onto their lands would create new injustices for Israelis. Doing nothing about the refugee problem won't make it go away. No country wants these people.

Meanwhile the state of Israel keeps seizing Palestinian land, destroying Palestinian homes and building new Jewish settlements.

I hope this clears up the many misconceptions about this conflict and I welcome civilized and rational commentary about this post.

 

[Daz_Hockey]

RE: Palestinian Israeli c

problem I have with the above is that it seems very subjective to me (and probably a lot of people). I am not an american, but today's muslim governments do not rule like the ottomans...you realise this right?.

Have you been to Saudi?....I have
how about Jordan? or the Sudan?........it's never always crystal clear.

 

[Said1]

Re: RE: Palestinian Israeli c

problem I have with the above is that it seems very subjective to me (and probably a lot of people). I am not an american, but today's muslim governments do not rule like the ottomans...you realise this right?.

Have you been to Saudi?....I have
how about Jordan? or the Sudan?........it's never always crystal clear.

They're still pretty tribal, family is everything.

 

[earth_as_one]

RE: Palestinian Israeli conflict - History and Current Event

Take the time to follow the links and you will see that I have referenced objective sources like Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International as well as subjective Israel, Jewish, Palestinian, Arab, Muslim sources. My claims that Israel used violence and threats of violence to ethnically cleanse Palestine of Palestinians is supported by Israeli historians.

I will repost this link to an interview of Israeli historian Benny Morris:

http://www.logosjournal.com/morris.htm

Taken together, I belive the above accurately describes Palestinian history, how Israel was created, who did what to whom and who are the victims.

I agree its not short or simple, but its well worth considering if you really want to understand this conflict.

 

[Daz_Hockey]

RE: Palestinian Israeli c

yep, but I was refering to their attitudes to other religions, the ottomans were known throughout the world for their religious tolerances (as is Turkey now, which is why they are becoming a member of the EU), but most islamic governments are simply not like that today.

 

[Said1]

Re: RE: Palestinian Israeli c

yep, but I was refering to their attitudes to other religions, the ottomans were known throughout the world for their religious tolerances (as is Turkey now, which is why they are becoming a member of the EU), but most islamic governments are simply not like that today.

I don't think they were ever overly tolerant - tolerant through concession, treaty and forced reformation maybe.

 

[Daz_Hockey]

RE: Palestinian Israeli c

yep, but it's more than you'd get in quite a few islamic countries today. I ask you though, Lebanon aside, why are they not as racially mixed as most of the western world if they are so accepting then?.

 

[Said1]

Re: RE: Palestinian Israeli c

yep, but it's more than you'd get in quite a few islamic countries today. I ask you though, Lebanon aside, why are they not as racially mixed as most of the western world if they are so accepting then?.

Tribalism is still important, which also conincides with their religion. I'm sure there is less emphsis on it today, but in places where there are still existing kingdoms, I'm sure your blood line is important.

 

[iARTthere4iam]

RE: Palestinian Israeli conflict - History and Current Event

The entire middle east is a construct of the west. England and France helped the arabs fight the Ottomans because the turks sided against England and France in the first world war. The two world wars and the years in between saw millions of people die in combat and slaughter and saw the world map be redrawn. Iraq was taken by the british for it's oil needs, Syria (including Lebanon) was controlled by the French, Palestine (including transjordan -which was never an independent nation) was madated to the British, Ibn Saud slaughtered the Hashemites to gain control of the Hejaz (later Saudi Arabia). Basically the whole region was broken up and new governments established.

My point is that nations are not fixed, the modern middle east was formed by war and Israel is no exception. To condemn Israel because it has fought is hipocritocal as many nations that exist today have been created or expanded by war.
If the Arabs had agreed to the partition plan there would have been no Israeli war of independence, Jerusalem would have been internationally administered. I can't say if this arangement would have been perfect or if it would have worked at all, but I do know that the partition plan was not accepted and the day-old state of Israel was attacked by the Arab Legion, the Arab Liberation Army, the Army of Salvation, Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, and Iraq - modern equipped by standards of the day. For a variety of reasons the Jew won the war and have won their wars since and still remain despite what their neighbours might want.
Israel accepted Jewish refugees expelled from arab lands, but the Arabs didn't accept Arabs expelled from Israel.
What is FAIR...I don't think that exists in reality. To the victor go the spoils...no?

 

[Just the Facts]

Re: Palestinian Israeli conflict - History and Current Event

As a refence, I am posting a link to the "If Americans Knew" website.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/about_us/

I took a look at this website, and even with my cursory knowledge of the situation, I thought it wasn't right. I also thought, I must not be the first person to notice this. I was right, others with more knowlege than myself noticed and reported.

http://www.themiddleeastnow.com/ifamericansknew.html

This website deals with many common held but mistaken beliefs Americans have about the Palestinian/Israeli conflict.

Yes, it creates and perpetuates them.

This map shows who owned what before the UN created Israel:

http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Maps/Story573.html

Again, we conveniently ignore the existance of Jordan.

These people who lived in this area before Zionism should have had rights as as landowners.

Those who didn't leave, thinking the Arab armies would push the Jews into the sea, thus enabling them to not only return to their homes but seize a few vacated Jewish homes as well, in fact do enjoy full rights of ownership.

In 1947, the UN recognized Jewish immigrant claims to this land based on ancient history and ignored the rights of people already living in Palestine.

Only after those people were already given roughly 79% of Palestine. Jordan, remember? Just because it happened before the UN mandate, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Jordan was as much a part of Palestine as anything else is.

Yes I think what happened was wrong, but human history has a very long list of injustices.

The descendants of these people have no claim on this land based on that distant historical injustice, just like all of us who probably have at least one ancestor who was wronged at some time in the past.

I agree, and that is why I don't live in a refugee camp demanding the right to return to my grandfather's hundred acres.

That brings us to the point where the UN partitioned Palestine reserving land for a Jewish state.

Once again skipping over that pesky detail, Jordan!

Our news has chosen sides. They always report the periodic violence committed against Israelis by individual Palestinians and Palestinian militant groups:

I find that quite the opposite seems to be true. That is of course, purely subjective.

Edited for formatting

 

[earth_as_one]

RE: Palestinian Israeli conflict - History and Current Event

In other words might makes right.

Given that logic the future of Israel specifically and the middle east in general isn't very good.

No empire lasts forever. The signs of the decline of the American empire are plain to see. How long can the US continue run up its deficit before it collapses? What happens when Israel's benefactor becomes a former superpower?

Israel's planned offensive into Lebanon appears to be very costly. Hezbollah can destroy top of the line Israeli tanks and shoot down low flying Israeli aircraft. Despite the constant bombardment on a massive scale, Hezbollah appears to be holding its own.

1.5 billion angry Muslims cannot be held down forvever...

The principal of might makes right will eventually bite the US and Israel...

 

[iARTthere4iam]

RE: Palestinian Israeli conflict - History and Current Event

I don't claim that Israel or the US or any country will be there in the future. Time will tell. History does not change but the selective use of certain parts of history certainly tell different stories.

 

[earth_as_one]

Re: Palestinian Israeli conflict - History and Current Event

Just the Facts:

I agree that "If Americans Knew" is subjective. So is our news. so is the website you linked to which analyzes "If Americans Knew".

However even the website you linked to acknowledges the numbers "If Americans Knew" are accurate. They only claim "If Americans Knew" is misleading.

For example, your site points out that "If America Knew" counts not just "innocent" Palestinians killed by Israelis, but also Palestinian suicide bombers and Palestinians killed by Palestinians. It claims that only "innocent" people should be counted. I disagree. If these deaths are a result of Israel's occupation, then they count, regardless of who killed whom or why.

A suicide bomber's death counts and so does killing of Israeli spies and collaborators. If Israel had not occuppied and opppressed Palestinians then these deaths would not have occured. Not counting these deaths would ignore 13% of deaths resulting from Israel's occupation and opppression.

The analysis site also makes unsubstantiated claims like:

the Palestinian government goes out of its way to have as many civilians killed as possible to use the deaths as propaganda.

That unsubstantiated claim defies common sense and clearly shows how subjective your website is.

Also I'd like to know where this website gets information to make this claim:

less than 40% of the Palestinians in those numbers were innocent civilians

I suspect this website only considers Palestinian women and children as innocent and Palestinian men, even if unarmed as guilty of something.

But if you have problems with "If Americans Knew" then how about Amnesty International? Here is their appraisal of the situation.

Human Rights Concerns

Human Rights Concerns for Israel and the Occupied Territories
Continued killings on both sides of the conflict
Political prisoners
Land conficscation
Poverty and associated health concerns
Honor killings, extrajudicial executions, and the death penalty

The human rights situation in Israel and the Occupied Territories continues to deteriorate. Some 3,700 Palestinians – most of them unarmed and including over 600 children – have been killed by the Israeli army and settlers, and almost 1,000 Israelis – most of them civilians and including more than 100 children – have been killed by Palestinians since the start of the current uprising (Intifada) in September 2000. In addition, Palestinians living under Israeli military occupation in The West Bank and Gaza Strip are subject to a wide range of human rights violations.

Over 8000 Palestinians, most of whom are nonviolent prisoners of conscience and few if any of whom have received trials that meet international standards, are being held as political prisoners. Over the past five years, close to 20,000 Palestinians have been made homeless and thousands of others have lost their livelihood as the Israeli army has destroyed over 4,000 homes, vast areas of agricultural land and hundreds of other properties.

The construction of the fence/wall inside the Occupied Territories violates international law, is based on land confiscation and is causing grave human rights violations. In addition, military checkpoints, blockades and a barrage of other restrictions confine Palestinians to their homes or immediate surroundings. As a result, the Palestinian economy has virtually collapsed.

Unemployment has soared to close to 30%, two thirds of the Palestinian population is now living below the poverty line, and malnutrition and other health problems are spreading.

Additional concerns include impunity for “honor” killings of women, extrajudicial executions of suspected collaborators by armed Palestinian groups, and death penalty by the Palestinian Authority.

http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/israel_and_occupied_territories/summary.do

>>>>

An ethnically cleansed and razed village is still an ethnically cleansed and razed village no matter how you do the math. The maps I linked to above show Israel ethnically cleansed and razed hundreds of Palestinian villages. The four million former inhabitants and their descendants live in permanent misery and hopelessness. International laws ignored by Israel and the world give these people the right to return home and compensation for their losses. Israel's Absentees’ Property Law is state sanctioned theft.

Most Palestinian refugees are just people who lived on land seized by Israel by military force and removed because they were not the right race/relgion. Most did not take up arms against Israel. Israel's ongoing ethnic cleansing of Palestine of Palestinians is a crime against humanity.

These refugees don't live in refugee camps by choice. Israel forced them out of their homes by violent means or threats of violence:

...According to your new findings, how many cases of Israeli rape were there in 1948?

About a dozen. In Acre four soldiers raped a girl and murdered her and her father. In Jaffa, soldiers of the Kiryati Brigade raped one girl and tried to rape several more. At Hunin, which is in the Galilee, two girls were raped and then murdered. There were one or two cases of rape at Tantura, south of Haifa. There was one case of rape at Qula, in the center of the country. At the village of Abu Shusha, near Kibbutz Gezer [in the Ramle area] there were four female prisoners, one of whom was raped a number of times. And there were other cases. Usually more than one soldier was involved. Usually there were one or two Palestinian girls. In a large proportion of the cases the event ended with murder. Because neither the victims nor the rapists liked to report these events, we have to assume that the dozen cases of rape that were reported, which I found, are not the whole story. They are just the tip of the iceberg.

According to your findings, how many acts of Israeli massacre were perpetrated in 1948?

Twenty-four. In some cases four or five people were executed, in others the numbers were 70, 80, 100. There was also a great deal of arbitrary killing. Two old men are spotted walking in a field - they are shot. A woman is found in an abandoned village - she is shot. There are cases such as the village of Dawayima [in the Hebron region], in which a column entered the village with all guns blazing and killed anything that moved.

The worst cases were Saliha (70-80 killed), Deir Yassin (100-110), Lod (250), Dawayima (hundreds) and perhaps Abu Shusha (70). There is no unequivocal proof of a large-scale massacre at Tantura, but war crimes were perpetrated there. At Jaffa there was a massacre about which nothing had been known until now. The same at Arab al Muwassi, in the north. About half of the acts of massacre were part of Operation Hiram [in the north, in October 1948]: at Safsaf, Saliha, Jish, Eilaboun, Arab al Muwasi, Deir al Asad, Majdal Krum, Sasa. In Operation Hiram there was a unusually high concentration of executions of people against a wall or next to a well in an orderly fashion.

That can’t be chance. It’s a pattern. Apparently, various officers who took part in the operation understood that the expulsion order they received permitted them to do these deeds in order to encourage the population to take to the roads. The fact is that no one was punished for these acts of murder. Ben-Gurion silenced the matter. He covered up for the officers who did the massacres.

What you are telling me here, as though by the way, is that in Operation Hiram there was a comprehensive and explicit expulsion order. Is that right?

Yes. One of the revelations in the book is that on October 31, 1948, the commander of the Northern Front, Moshe Carmel, issued an order in writing to his units to expedite the removal of the Arab population. Carmel took this action immediately after a visit by Ben-Gurion to the Northern Command in Nazareth. There is no doubt in my mind that this order originated with Ben-Gurion. Just as the expulsion order for the city of Lod, which was signed by Yitzhak Rabin, was issued immediately after Ben-Gurion visited the headquarters of Operation Dani [July 1948]...

Benny Morris
Israeli Historian
http://www.logosjournal.com/morris.htm

Clearly the above is criminal. Then when the fighting was over, Israel in violation of international law, refused to allow these people to return to their homes and seized their property. No country wants these people. They are not allowed to leave or find work. For nearly sixty years they have been stuck in the sqalid poverty of refugee camps, living on handouts, with no hope of having basic rights or a future.

Israel's use of military force to seize Palestinian property, raze their villages and expand its colonization of Palestine never stopped. Its been one constant in this long conflict and continues today:

18 May 2004

Israel and the Occupied Territories
Under the rubble: House demolition and destruction of land and property

For decades Israel has pursued a policy of forced eviction(1) and demolition of homes of Palestinians living under occupation in the West Bank and Gaza Strip and the homes of Israeli Arabs in Israel. In the past three and a half years the scale of the destruction carried out by the Israeli army in the Occupied Territories has reached an unprecedented level. The victims are often amongst the poorest and most disadvantaged in both Israeli and Palestinian society. Most of the houses demolished by the Israeli army in the Occupied Territories were the homes of refugee families, who were expelled by Israeli forces or who fled in the war that followed the creation of Israel in 1948.

More than 3,000 homes, hundreds of public buildings and private commercial properties, and vast areas of agricultural land have been destroyed by the Israeli army and security forces in Israel and the Occupied Territories in the past three and a half years. Tens of thousands of men, women and children have been forcibly evicted from their homes and made homeless or have lost their source of livelihood. Thousands of other houses and properties have been damaged, many beyond repair. In addition, tens of thousands of other homes are under threat of demolition, their occupants living in fear of forced eviction and homelessness.

Forced evictions and house demolitions are usually carried out without warning, often at night, and the occupants are given little or no time to leave their homes. Sometimes they are allowed a few minutes or half an hour, too little to salvage their belongings. Often the only warning is the rumbling of the Israeli army’s bulldozers and tanks and the inhabitants barely have time to flee as the bulldozers begin to tear down the walls of their homes. Thousands of families have had their homes and possessions destroyed under the blades of the Israeli army’s US-made Caterpillar bulldozers. In the wake of the demolitions men, women and children return to the ruins of their homes searching for whatever can be salvaged from under the rubble: passports or other documents, children’s schoolbooks, clothes, kitchenware or furniture which were not destroyed.

Amnesty International
http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engmde150332004

Eventually Palestinian property confiscated by Israel by force, is turned over to Jewish colonists.

HRW Letter to President Bush
April 11, 2005

Dear President Bush,

I am writing to you regarding your meeting with Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon. At this critical juncture in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, it is imperative that your administration states its unequivocal opposition to all Israeli settlement activity in the occupied West Bank, including East Jerusalem.

As you know, Israel’s continuing settlement activity is a violation of international humanitarian law, United Nations Security Council resolutions, and Israel’s own commitments under the U.S.-sponsored “road map” of April 2003.

Israel's policy of encouraging, financing, establishing, and expanding Israeli settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territories (OPT) violates two main principles of international humanitarian law: the prohibition on the transfer of civilians from the occupying power's territory into the occupied territory, and the prohibition on creating permanent changes in the occupied territory that are not for the benefit of the occupied population. In particular, Article 49(6) of the Fourth Geneva Convention states that "[t]he Occupying Power shall not …transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies." ....

Human Rights Watch
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/04/11/isrlpa10461.htm

Regarding the partition of Palestine, why stop at Jordan's borders? Why not claim that Israel only got a 0.1% of the world. But if you think its fair to divide something in order to give part of it away, then can I have 60% of your house? No? Well then how about just 13%? You can have the backyard, I'll take the house. Don't worry I'll build a cage for you to live in. I even promise to feed you... periodically... unless of course you resist my generous offer. That sounds fair to me.

 

[iARTthere4iam]

RE: Palestinian Israeli conflict - History and Current Event

This sad discussion shows just how hopeless the situation is. If totally disinterested parties with no stake in the region cannot agree, how can we ever hope that those that have been living with the horrors in the region for generations will live and let live.
Unless Israel is destroyed or palestinians agree to make their state in Gaza and the west bank I cannot see any solution here.
Earth-as-one clearly sees the land of Israel as the main stumbling block to peace in the region. The right of return for Palestinian refugees would be the end of Israel. A wall separating the two sides is considered somehow immoral. No Arab country will accept the refugees. The palestinians are not taking responsibility for their nation. The Jews are not playing nice by jumping into the sea as their enemies would like (thus making the world a paradise on earth).

I see no perfect solutions to the problems here. Do you have any? (hopefully one that doesn't result in another holocaust).
I do believe that Israel has a right to exist. It exists because it has successfully fought for it's existance.
I believe that the palestinians have a right to a state. It is in it's current situation because of the beligerance and unsuccessful military campaigns of the neighbouring Arab states and it's unwillingness to live in peace side-by-side with Israel. Every war and uprising takes away land and freedoms, it's time for Palestine to build a functioning state. There is lots of work to do.

 

[Just the Facts]

Re: Palestinian Israeli conflict - History and Current Event

Also I'd like to know where this website gets information to make this claim:

less than 40% of the Palestinians in those numbers were innocent civilians

That's a good question.If I recall correctly, there was a feedback section there. Ask him.

Regarding the partition of Palestine, why stop at Jordan's borders?

One very simple yet compelling reason....wait for it.....<drumroll> Jordan was a PART OF PALESTINE.

Why not claim that Israel only got a 0.1% of the world. But if you think its fair to divide something in order to give part of it away, then can I have 60% of your house? No? Well then how about just 13%? You can have the backyard, I'll take the house. Don't worry I'll build a cage for you to live in. I even promise to feed you... periodically... unless of course you resist my generous offer. That sounds fair to me.

I would not give you any of my house. And even if I did I bet you would reneg on your promise to feed me. I would consider donating it to the Six Nations, though. And I would be thrilled to divert my property taxes to the Six Nations. You see, the Six Nations have a legitimate historical claim to the land my house is built on. You do not.

Edited for grammar

 

[earth_as_one]

RE: Palestinian Israeli conflict - History and Current Event

My point is:

Its still theft if you take something that belongs to someone else, not matter what percentage it is.

This conflict is about religious and racial purity, not taxes.

How would you feel if the Six Nations did claim their historical right to your land, but instead of wanting your taxes they wanted you off their land?

Imagine having to deal with a tank suddenly showing up at your door and a blowhorn instructing you to evauate the area. Five minutes later, the tank starts firing shells though your windows. Imagine how you would feel when they bulldoze your house running over family members who refused to leave or didn't get out in time. What would you feel as the tanks and bulldozers shot stone throwing children on the way out of the neighborhood. Eventually they put wall between you and what used to be your property.

Would you feel like blowing something up?

I hope I wouldn't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi

 

[iARTthere4iam]

RE: Palestinian Israeli conflict - History and Current Event

What would the Arabs have done if the Jews had lost their war of indpendence?

Would they have respected legally owned jewish property?

I think not.
The right of return aint gonna happen. Sorry.

 

[Graeme]

RE: Palestinian Israeli conflict - History and Current Event

This map shows who owned what before the UN created Israel:

http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Maps/Story573.html

In 1946 Jews were clearly a minority in Palestine.

Before the UN created Israel in 1947, hundreds of thousands of non-Jews who were the majority legally owned and occupied most of what is now Israel.

actually the brits created israel, and set up original bounds, but after a while the UN was asked to set boundries, the UN could never get the arabs to agree.

So Israeli then made it "official" them selves.

wiki:

After the United Nations partitioned the territory of the British Mandate of Palestine into two states, Jewish and Arab, the Arabs refused to accept it and the armies of Egypt, Syria, Transjordan, Lebanon and Iraq, supported by others, attacked the newly established State of Israel which they refused to recognize.

you can read wiki for more but it is called the Arab-Israeli War

the end result was israel ended up taking control of more land during the war and they had to hold it so they wouldn't be attacked so easily again.

They actually ended up with more land because the Arab world attacked. Now that's why I call justice.

Of course the Arabs didn't give up, but they lost EVERY TIME!!!!

more from wiki:

1956 Suez War
Main article: 1956 Suez War
The Suez Crisis came about as conflict between Egypt and Israel increased in 1956, with Egypt sending guerrilla forces into Israeli territory and Israel launching frequent incursions into Egyptian territory in response. Egypt blockaded the Gulf of Aqaba, and closed the Suez canal to Israeli shipping. Egypt also nationalized the canal, to the fury of its previous European controllers. In response, France and the United Kingdom entered into a secret agreement with Israel to take back the canal by force. In accordance with this agreement (which was not officially admitted until very much later), Israel invaded the Gaza Strip and the Sinai Peninsula in October 1956. Israeli forces reached the canal in short order and then French and British forces stepped in on the pretext of restoring order.

The Israeli, French and United Kingdom forces were victorious, but withdrew in March 1957 due to pressure from their ally, the United States, which did not approve of the Suez War. The United Nations established the UN Emergency Force (UNEF) to keep peace in the area.


Six-Day War
Main article: Six-Day War.
In June 1967, the united Arab military command amassed troops along the Israeli borders, while Egypt closed the Straits of Tiran and Nasser insisted that the UNEF leave Egypt. The Six-Day War began when on June 5, 1967, the Israeli air force launched preemptive attacks destroying the air force of Egypt, later the same day neutralising the air forces of Jordan and Syria. Israel then defeated (almost successively) Egypt, Jordan and Syria. By June 11 the Arab forces were routed and all parties had accepted the cease-fire called for by UN Security Council Resolutions 235 and 236.

Israel gained control of the Sinai Peninsula, the Gaza Strip, the Golan Heights, and the formerly Jordanian-controlled West Bank of the Jordan River, including East Jerusalem. On November 22, 1967, the Security Council adopted Resolution 242, the "land for peace" formula, which called for the establishment of a just and lasting peace based on Israeli withdrawal from territories occupied in 1967 in return for the end of all states of belligerency, respect for the sovereignty of all states in the area, and the right to live in peace within secure, recognized boundaries.

In retaliation for repeated Egyptian shelling of Israeli positions along the Suez Canal, Israeli planes made deep strikes into Egypt in the 1969-1970 "war of attrition". In early 1969, fighting broke out between Egypt and Israel along the Suez Canal. The United States helped end these hostilities in August 1970, but subsequent U.S. efforts to negotiate an interim agreement to open the Suez Canal and achieve disengagement of forces were unsuccessful.


The Yom Kippur War
Main article: Yom Kippur War.
The Yom Kippur War began on October 6, 1973 (the Jewish Day of Atonement) when the Syrian and Egyptian armies launched a simultaneous attack on Israel and inflicted a short lived defeat on the surprised Israeli Defence Force (IDF). After the first 24-48 hours the war's momentum shifted to Israel and within three weeks the invaders were pushed back, the land was recaptured and a UN peacekeeping force was put in place.

As a result of the shock sustained by Israeli society in the aftermath of the war, the Israeli government started negotiations for security on its borders. On January 18, 1974, a Disengagement of Forces agreement was signed with the Egyptian government, and on May 31, with the Syrian government. On the international scene, the Arab world retaliated by imposing an oil embargo on countries trading with Israel. The government of Japan announced on November 22, 1973 that it would reconsider its relations with the Israeli government unless it withdrew from all territories occupied in as a result of the 1967 Six Day War.

 

[Graeme]

RE: Palestinian Israeli conflict - History and Current Event

I am pretty sure the only nation in or around the middle east to never start a war by attacking is Israel and the Jewish people.

Both times when the Jews made their state, they just settled and started building the first time was when they "escaped" from egypt, and the second time was just after WWII

 

[Graeme]

RE: Palestinian Israeli conflict - History and Current Event

btw I didn't really say this, but the UN partition plan was never implemented, because Israel won a war they did not start, they felt fit to decide the fate of there own boundries.

Hmm under your logic:

Romans expelled all Jews from what is today Israel/Palestine. This historical injustice was committed over 1800 years ago. The descendants have no more legal right to this land than the decendants of every other historical injustice for the last 1800 years have rights.

I guess the arabs have no more rights over israel, especially considering there wasn't even a "historical injustice" committed by israel, they won after being attacked!