Organic Farming

[Cliffy]

By Paul Hanley, Special to The StarPhoenix October 17, 2011
The results are in from a 30-year side-by-side trial of conventional and organic farming methods at Pennsylvania's Rodale Institute. Contrary to conventional wisdom, organic farming outperformed conventional farming in every measure.


There are about 1,500 organic farmers in Saskatchewan, at last count. They eschew the synthetic fertilizers and toxic sprays that are the mainstay of conventional farms. Study after study indicates the conventional thinking on farming - that we have to tolerate toxic chemicals because organic farming can't feed the world - is wrong.


Full story: Study debunks myths on organic farms

 

[Cannuck]

Would you really expect a study done by an organization that promotes organic farming to come up with a different finding?

 

[L Gilbert]

I wouldn't particularly expect them to say any different, but whether they would say that or not is irrelevant. If they farm cheaper organically than other farms, they did. If they didn't, they didn't.

I have to say that wife's chickens are cheaper and more nutritional than storebought chickens and her eggs are only marginally more expensive but they are larger and more nutritional than storeboughts and she doesn't use pesticides and crap either.

 

[Cliffy]

Would you really expect a study done by an organization that promotes organic farming to come up with a different finding?

Would you expect Dow Chemical to publish the results? Would you accept their version as more valid?

It comes down to, would you prefer to eat food grown with chemicals and toxic pesticides or would you prefer your food to be naturally grown?

 

[Cannuck]

Would you expect Dow Chemical to publish the results?

No

Would you accept their version as more valid?

That would depend. If I was given as much information from Dow as I got from the Rodale Institute, I certainly wouldn't

It comes down to, would you prefer to eat food grown with chemicals and toxic pesticides or would you prefer your food to be naturally grown?

No, it doesn't come down to that at all.

 

[damngrumpy]

There is a lot to be concerned about when it comes to organic farming. First of all
organic farmers use some sprays, Entrust is one of them, and one cannot say they
are not toxic they kill pests. There are other things they use as well. True the do not
use conventional fertilizers. In many cases depending on crops they use up to four
times more sulphur than conventional farmers do. Even that is not a problem for me
The problem is the whole system of verification. The certification and inspection
system is primarily honor based. The farmer knows in most cases when the inspector
is coming to check the paper work and no real substantive soil tests are done.
Organics is now a religion more than a way of farming. I have immediate family who
used to preach the gospel of organics and even they are starting to catch on.

I believe we need organics and conventional farming, both have their place and both
are perfectly safe if we follow the rules. That is the problem. As a conventional farmer
I likely come under more scrutiny than the organic folks. I live close to a main road
and the Feds come every year for leaf samples and so on. In addition I have on farm
food safety. I have full inspection of my practices, what I use how its stored, how much
I purchased and used and so on.
We have to be careful here even certified organic is not fully and tightly inspected.
I think Organic inspections should include soil and leaf samples, inspection of sheds and
storage areas and so on looking for illicit product. I know a former organic inspector
I agree with some of what he says but not all but his critical view of the present system
certainly raises a lot od doubt. Read the book Is It Organic and give it some thought.
You can get it on line. There are many questions to be answered.
Remember my chemicals are registered and logged, what are those who are not honest
in the organic area using and we don't know about?

 

[Cliffy]

Organic food: what our grandparents called food.

Without oil, so called conventional farming would be impossible. The farther away from oganic farming we get, the more we set ourselves of a massive die off if anything should stop the flow of oil.

 

[bill barilko]

I had an 100% organic garden here in the city for a number of years-what I produced was many times tastier than the crud on offer in mainstream outlets.

It would be tough to produce the same food economically on a larger scale that I now understand.

But studies paid for by chemical companies are worth the paper they're written on.

Garlic 'n the 'hood

 

[damngrumpy]

If you got rid of oil you would need to use horses and that is not productive.
farmers can prepare a lot of acres in a day with a tractor. The term acre
is a sign in itself. An acre was determined as one good man with one good
horse and plow could cover one acre in a day.
Besides once animals become the order of the day, you have to use about
half the farm to grow pasture for the animals and that reduces the food that
can be produced.
On the local level or specific customers on a smaller scale that is fine, but we
cannot feed ourselves and export to with only organic farming. Hey, I represent
both organic and conventional farmers. I am not in favour of one kind or another
but, it should be pointed out that organics is a lifestyle a business specific area
and in some cases a religion without the science and that has draw backs too.
On the other side its making sure that those who use chemical methods use
them properly.

 

[Cliffy]

As the cost of oil goes up, the cost of chemical fertilizers goes up with it. Farmers are starting to re-acquaint themselves with good old composted manure in many areas. That is a good sign.

Best pork I ever ate was some pigs we turned loose in the forest and hunted them in the fall. Couldn't get more organic than that.

 

[talloola]

If you got rid of oil you would need to use horses and that is not productive.
farmers can prepare a lot of acres in a day with a tractor. The term acre
is a sign in itself. An acre was determined as one good man with one good
horse and plow could cover one acre in a day.
Besides once animals become the order of the day, you have to use about
half the farm to grow pasture for the animals and that reduces the food that
can be produced.
On the local level or specific customers on a smaller scale that is fine, but we
cannot feed ourselves and export to with only organic farming. Hey, I represent
both organic and conventional farmers. I am not in favour of one kind or another
but, it should be pointed out that organics is a lifestyle a business specific area
and in some cases a religion without the science and that has draw backs too.
On the other side its making sure that those who use chemical methods use
them properly.

shouldn't this conversation be divided into two parts, organic farming and 'certified' organic farming,
as they are not the same, the rules are stricter for the certified organic farmer, and it is also very
expensive for him to acquire that title.

 

[Cannuck]

Farmers are starting to re-acquaint themselves with good old composted manure in many areas.

Starting to? Really Cliffy? Maybe you should learn something about agriculture before you start spouting. You are as bad as some of the other religious nuts on this forum.

manure spreaders - Google Search

 

[Tonington]

Would you really expect a study done by an organization that promotes organic farming to come up with a different finding?

They did in the first years of the study.

The longer term data show equivalence in many measures, and superiority of the organic crops during stressful periods. That's what we should expect considering organic farming will increase soil biodiversity. A robust soil community should be less sensitive to stresses, that's a hallmark of biodiversity.

 

[taxslave]

Along with all the chemicals we have seeds from Monsanto. That is the real problem.

 

[Cannuck]

They did in the first years of the study.

The longer term data show equivalence in many measures, and superiority of the organic crops during stressful periods. That's what we should expect considering organic farming will increase soil biodiversity. A robust soil community should be less sensitive to stresses, that's a hallmark of biodiversity.

Don't confuse biodiversity with organic farming.

 

[taxslave]

shouldn't this conversation be divided into two parts, organic farming and 'certified' organic farming,
as they are not the same, the rules are stricter for the certified organic farmer, and it is also very
expensive for him to acquire that title.

Certified is largely a paper work thing. Not necessarily relevant. I had a fair amount of involvement in certifying logging several years back. Contrary to what one might think it is not always about best logging practices but a paper trail that would make a bureaucrat orgasmic.
The same goes with safety where one would expect certification to be important. Problem is that the rules are often written by bureaucrats that have little or no experience in the industry they are forcing rules on. In BC they are pushing certification for equipment operators. Unfortunately there is no correlation between certified and qualified. As an example we recently had our whole crew certified on manlifts. The guy who taught the course has never worked off a lift but spent 20+ years renting them out. We all certified now and therefore legal but who do you think knows more about elevated working, us or him?

 

[L Gilbert]

Without oil, so called conventional farming would be impossible.

Nope. It'd just be scaled down. Wife could manage quite well without using any petroleum products in her farming. The only things she uses petroleum products for in her venture is getting feed for checkins in winter. If she didn't farm organically, she'd be still only using petroleum to get stuff for the chickens.

They did in the first years of the study.

The longer term data show equivalence in many measures, and superiority of the organic crops during stressful periods. That's what we should expect considering organic farming will increase soil biodiversity. A robust soil community should be less sensitive to stresses, that's a hallmark of biodiversity.

Yep.

Along with all the chemicals we have seeds from Monsanto. That is the real problem.

Monsanto is just one of them.

Don't confuse biodiversity with organic farming.

He didn't.

Certified is largely a paper work thing. Not necessarily relevant. I had a fair amount of involvement in certifying logging several years back. Contrary to what one might think it is not always about best logging practices but a paper trail that would make a bureaucrat orgasmic.
The same goes with safety where one would expect certification to be important. Problem is that the rules are often written by bureaucrats that have little or no experience in the industry they are forcing rules on. In BC they are pushing certification for equipment operators. Unfortunately there is no correlation between certified and qualified. As an example we recently had our whole crew certified on manlifts. The guy who taught the course has never worked off a lift but spent 20+ years renting them out. We all certified now and therefore legal but who do you think knows more about elevated working, us or him?

Yep. There are a whole pile of people around here that are simply ignoring the stupid crap about certification for equipment operators.

 

[Tonington]

Don't confuse biodiversity with organic farming.

I'm not confused at all.

They did in the first years of the study.

The longer term data show equivalence in many measures, and superiority of the organic crops during stressful periods. That's what we should expect considering organic farming will increase soil biodiversity. A robust soil community should be less sensitive to stresses, that's a hallmark of biodiversity.

My emphasis of my original post. Slow down and take your time reading. Or better yet, go read the results for yourself instead of the casual dismissal you lead with.

 

[Mowich]

Along with all the chemicals we have seeds from Monsanto. That is the real problem.

Bang on, taxslave.

Monsanto is just one of them.

Novartis, Agrevo, and DuPont can be added to the list.

 

[talloola]

Certified is largely a paper work thing. Not necessarily relevant. I had a fair amount of involvement in certifying logging several years back. Contrary to what one might think it is not always about best logging practices but a paper trail that would make a bureaucrat orgasmic.
The same goes with safety where one would expect certification to be important. Problem is that the rules are often written by bureaucrats that have little or no experience in the industry they are forcing rules on. In BC they are pushing certification for equipment operators. Unfortunately there is no correlation between certified and qualified. As an example we recently had our whole crew certified on manlifts. The guy who taught the course has never worked off a lift but spent 20+ years renting them out. We all certified now and therefore legal but who do you think knows more about elevated working, us or him?

but the organic farmer, who is 'not' certified, can do whatever he wants, and still sell as organic,
whereas the certified guy cannot, so one is assured with the certified label, that it is legit and
the proper protocol has been followed.
the label that just says organic, is full of holes.