only if your christian,virgin,raped & sodomized, maybe!

[FiveParadox]

RE: only if your christian,virgin,raped & sodomized, may

Haha, nope, I cannot view them; it shows an Angelfire placeholder in place of the images, and when I tried to navigate to the page myself, I was forbidden access by the Angelfire domain. Oh well.

 

[mattyaloo]

Re: RE: only if your christian,virgin,raped & sodomized,

Is it reactioanary though?

ALL women have a choice. Choose not to get pregnant. Irresposible actions lead to consequences. What we're talking about here is CONVENIENCE.

 

[FiveParadox]

RE: only if your christian,virgin,raped & sodomized, may

mattyaloo, the problem here is that it would impede women who do not have a choice on the matter — this legislation would make it harder for women to exercise an abortion, even under legitimate circumstances.

When one is raped, one cannot make a mental decision or whether or not to become pregnant.

 

[Sassylassie]

Re: only if your christian,virgin,raped & sodomized, may

I'm RC but I believe in the right to choose. The day a male dominated government tells me what I can do with my body is the day Hell will Freeze over.

 

[Machjo]

Re: RE: only if your christian,virgin,raped & sodomized,

You know,if states enact anti-abortion legislation, then they should equally offer "support the children" legislation...children who would be guaranteed an adequate family(natural or foster),adequate medical services,adequate education,adequate social services,etc.etc.
Until they do so,no unwanted child should be born..because,after all,if the parent(s) don't want them and all the inherent responsibility,and the state doesn't provide for them...we just end up with repeating the cycle.

There are some good points here. If religionists want to see this legislation stick long term, they'd better make sure it works. For instance, if the legislation is passed, but religionsts do nothing to reduce the number of unwnted births through some effective educational strategy, or if we end up with a next generation of massive slums growing in the inner cities, prostitution, et.c et.c etc. from adults who'd suffered neglected childhoods, this legislation will be repealed a generation later.

So if religionists want this legislation to stick, they'd better develop the resources needed to educate the public about how to prevent such pregnancies, and be prepared to help single mothers with raising their children, etc. Now the ball is in the other court. Let's see if the religionists can succeed!

 

[FiveParadox]

RE: only if your christian,virgin,raped & sodomized, may

Even if religious persons act to ensure that a legislative framework supports this measure, that would have no bearing on the case if brought to the Supreme court of the United States of America (assuming that such a Court works on the same principles as does the Supreme Court of Canada. Such legislative measures could be rendered irrelevent, were the main measure to be challenged.

 

[Machjo]

RE: only if your christian,virgin,raped & sodomized, may

I'm curious though, since everyone talks about "rights"; what about the rights of the feotus?

I personally believe life begins at conception, one reason being that that there is regular development of the feotus from that point forward until childhood, before which such development is simply not possible. So if life begins some time after conception, then where precicely do we draw the line. There is no other point quite as dramatic as conception itself. Sure eyes, arms, fingers, legs, etc. develop and evolve over time, but again, the beginning, the genesis which makes it all possible is conception.

Just curious to know your thoughts on this.

 

[FiveParadox]

RE: only if your christian,virgin,raped & sodomized, may

On this issue, I run around in circles in my head, lol; there are so many good points, on each side of the debate on when one can deem a fetus to be deserving of rights as awarded to a citizen. Right now, I think that my opinion is that one should not afford rights to fetuses (under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and the Statutes of Canada) until such time as the organism would have a reasonable chance to survive if delivered.

 

[cortez]

RE: only if your christian,virgin,raped & sodomized, may

Abortion is a very sad thing that humans do to their children. I fully agree that the best thing is to prevent unwanted pregnancy. However, there will always be unwanted pregancies, and there will always be abortion- I agree that we do not want to go back to the days of back street abortions.
I think that if society wants to prevent abortions, it should be more responsible in preventing unwanted pregnancies. Many schools are not allowed to teach contraception, leaving many young people without adequate knowledge. If society wants to prevent abortions, it should help the pregnant woman financially and socially so she could have the child and then either keep the child or place it up for adoption. Many high schools do not even allow pregnant students to continue attending!
I am sure few women make this decision lightly.

 

[Machjo]

Re: RE: only if your christian,virgin,raped & sodomized,

Abortion is a very sad thing that humans do to their children. I fully agree that the best thing is to prevent unwanted pregnancy. However, there will always be unwanted pregancies, and there will always be abortion- I agree that we do not want to go back to the days of back street abortions.
I think that if society wants to prevent abortions, it should be more responsible in preventing unwanted pregnancies. Many schools are not allowed to teach contraception, leaving many young people without adequate knowledge. If society wants to prevent abortions, it should help the pregnant woman financially and socially so she could have the child and then either keep the child or place it up for adoption. Many high schools do not even allow pregnant students to continue attending!
I am sure few women make this decision lightly.

Certainly if we believe that a woman ought to keep a child, but then boot her out of school when she's pregnant, then are we not sending her the message that she ought to get rid of the kid?

 

[JoeyB]

RE: only if your christia

when bill Napoli thinks "enlightenment" I am sure he's thinking "evisceration"

when I think 'Enlightenment" I'm thinking about losing my love handles...

 

[tracy]

RE: only if your christian,virgin,raped & sodomized, may

If life begins at conception than most women have had abortions by using the pill or depo-provera or IUDs, etc.

I have only worked in maternal-child health care since I started nursing because it's the area I feel passionate about. This law sickens me. I think if you're against aboritons you shouldn't have one, but I have a bigger problem than the obvious ones (the increase in back alley abortions, the way men seek control over reproduction, the way we care so much about the fetus but don't give a shit about it once it's born, etc).

The worst thing imo is that there is no exception for the health of a woman or the fetus. Are you telling me you think it's ok to force a woman to carry a baby to term knowing it will be born, suffer a few hours, then die? Cause as much as we like to think all pregnancies are healthy ones, they aren't. I currently work neonatal intensive care, and I have seen some babies suffer so much that I know I would abort if I knew I was carrying a child like that. I have seen horrifying things working there. If you saw what I did, you would not be ok with this legislation. There is also the problem of using the word "life" of the mother. At what point does it become her life and not her health that we're saving? This is especially an issue with multiples. Women with certain medical conditions are already high risk if they get pregnant, but even more so with multiples so many doctors recommend selective reduction. This is also important for the health of the baby. If you somehow wind up pregnant with triplets or quads, your doc may recommend selective reduction to save some of the babies because the outcomes for multiples can be very bad.

I have a real problem with anyone but the patient and the healthcare provider making medical decisions.

 

[Hank C]

RE: only if your christian,virgin,raped & sodomized, may

"Abortion is advocated only by persons who have themselves been born"

Ronald Reagan

 

[tracy]

Re: RE: only if your christian,virgin,raped & sodomized,

"Abortion is advocated only by persons who have themselves been born"

Ronald Reagan

I would think that was a Yogi Berra quote if you hadn't posted the source... :lol:

 

[darkbeaver]

Re: only if your christian,virgin,raped & sodomized, may

Darkbeaver

I guess I am going to have to find a sarcasm button....

I disagree with anyone having "rights" over the woman's right to choose - not the U.S. Superior Court, not the Catholic Church, not the State's legislative body.

A woman must have that right and sorry fellas - ultimately only the woman.

My only wish is that women would stop using abortion as birth control.

Abortions - back alley or pristine in a good clinic - are still abortions when they should be so outmoded as a means to solution of handling whether a woman becomes pregnant or not in the first place.

If by rape or incest, then by all means it is whatever the woman chooses.

Of course nobody asks the child.

Dark Beaver writes:

Actually the women of South Dakota will be deprived Child that,s what the legislation is about,to deprive. I,m not suprised at your limp response to this article, you have no personal opinion on this issue other than it is O/K to burden the women of South Dakota if that,s what the rich insane Christians demand.

Beav - what do you mean by deprived??? An abortion facility for them to take care of their problem? There will always be those - they just won't be legal.

What I mean is that women will be deprived of the right to decide for themselves about what will happen to thier own bodies,
they lose above all else, human rights.

 

[darkbeaver]

Re: only if your christian,virgin,raped & sodomized, may

I'm RC but I believe in the right to choose. The day a male dominated government tells me what I can do with my body is the day Hell will Freeze over.

Right on Sassylassie, Power to the People, especially the women people.

 

[Jay]

RE: only if your christian,virgin,raped & sodomized, may

I have lost more respect for women over this issue than any other lost of respect I can think of.

I try to not let it affect me.

 

[darkbeaver]

Re: RE: only if your christian,virgin,raped & sodomized,

I have lost more respect for women over this issue than any other lost of respect I can think of.

I try to not let it affect me.

This statement of yours is indicative of your faulty thinking , I could accept you having a loss of respect for those who advocate pro choice but I cannot accept your loss of respect for women, that reveals a sexism rampant among your ilk.

 

[Jay]

RE: only if your christian,virgin,raped & sodomized, may

I don't think you have a good enough handle on the subject to issue condemnations to me on it.

The last time I spoke to a male about this issue the first thing he said to me was "I'm not going to allow some man to tell me what I can do with my body!"

The issue generally fall into the category of "women's issues" so I feel justified in my "rampant sexism".

It's a general comment...Get a grip DB.

 

[Curiosity]

Re: only if your christian,virgin,raped & sodomized, may

Beav and Jay

I have no idea what either of you are saying and I hope you both keep talking so I'll get the gist of it.

Beav - I agree with Sassie - so what's your problem with my opinion?

I think you are misreading my words.

Ultimately the choice is before someone has sex....and that would necessarily be male/female. After sex is completed, if an egg is fertilized whether conveniently or inconveniently, then it would be up to the woman.

How sex was completed would have tremendous ramifications towards how a woman might choose...(or girl)....

I don't believe in abortion when it is used as birth control
otherwise it is up to the woman to decide.

It is also a wise choice for a woman who does have an abortion to do some follow-up sorting out her feelings which will be with her for the rest of her life.

I don't make rules for men or women....I only pick up the pieces after they make silly mistakes. I only make rules for me.

Jay

Care to expand on your intent? Not to argue but interested in what you feel.