Oceans, alleged ancients, on Mars.

[darkbeaver]

DB i think you have a point. Things have been fairly heated recently in this type of thread. Let's be nice

Personally i think the OP is outrageously unscientific and frankly laughable... but eanassir has never called me a bad name

The OP is just the sort of thing to invite casual pleasent diplomatic conversation where we might freely share, if not knowlege, then perceptions as to what the particulars of the universe might be or not be. For instance my former membership in The Church of The Big Bang is now only a matter of mild embarassment thanks to exchanges just like this.My friends also note an improvement in my personal hygiene and a generally more positive outlook.:smile:

 

[darkbeaver]

Oceans and lakes on Mars
( Oceans, alleged ancient, and underground glciers )
First:​

Glaciers have been discovered on Mars below a shield of rocks with some depth under the ground.​

Such under-ground glaciers are located at latitudes of 35-60 in both the north and south hemispheres. Such latitudes are middle, neither polar nor equatorial.​

The areas of these glaciers are very extensive.
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/MRO/news/mro-20081120.html​

Comment:
I think such glaciers are in fact lakes of liquid water; because Mars still has a very hot and active core. We here on earth have many water-springs and wells giving warm water because they are somewhat deep.​

In Iraq there is such warm water-springs in Mosul city and in a nearby city called Hammam Alaliel. In addition, the water of wells is cold in summer and warm in winter: because it is moderate in temperature: so that in summer time it will be relatively cold, while in winter it will be relatively warm.​

In some countries they use such criteria to make some conditioning in winter and summer; using some pipes that go to some considerable depth underground water; and bring this water out and circle it again; so as to moderate the temperature of house and offices, etc.​

So how can that be while the internal part of Mars is still very hot? While the glaciers are present under the ground in middle regions, and yet it is ice, and moreover, this is so in the middle zones of both the south and north hemisphere: almost this is some liquid water, not ice.​

Second:
A new discovery about Mars is the alleged past oceans that covered one third of the planet in the past.
http://uanews.org/node/22563​

The map of such past oceans is here:
http://uanews.org/system/files/images/dohm_fig2_top.preview.jpg​

Put in mind such oceans may be present now on Mars. These oceans and the glaciers may in fact be on the surface: oceans, seas and lakes of water, but they have not ascertained this yet. This goes with the map of the distribution of the hydrogen on the first meter or so of the surface of Mars.​

Third:
They intend to send some new rovers to Mars next year; this time may discover important discoveries, when they go near the mountainous area, where they may find water springs, streams and people on Mars; if they take lesson from the previous missions. Such mountains are covered with ice in their tops, so will all this ice vaporise? Will some of it percolate to the underground to come as water springs, water streams and rivers? Take it easy, and give us some water to drink :smile: ​

eanassir
http://universeandquran.t35.com​

Chapter 3: Beyond Velikovsky

3 - Beyond Velikovsky


Einstein's Relativity Demostrated, Mining Pure Energy from Empty Space, and the Green Hills of Mars


​

Scientific theory preaches that our Solar System condensed from a cloud of galactic dust. Mutual gravitational attraction is calculated to have drawn the nebulous dust particles toward a common center, inducing rotational velocity in the process. When density of dust at the center became high enough, pressure generated heat for the nuclear fusion of a star to develop. Centnfugal force flattened out the primordial nebula into a disc, and then streamers were thrown off to condense independently, forming a system of planets. Photographs of nebulas in deep space illustrate each stage of the evolutionary process, so why couldn't it have happened here just like that?
Well, to begin with, just about every planet in the Solar System exhibits some anomaly that proves the Nebular Hypothesis could not possibly have happened the way we are told in school.
If you refer to the figures supplied by Funk and Wagnall Encyclopedia, you will see that Jupiter has one tenth the diameter of the Sun, but it rotates a hundred times faster. Volume is diameter cubed, and momentum is one half of velo- city squared. Therefore, the Sun has a thousand times the volume of Jupiter, but Jupiter has five times the angular momentum. Jupiter is also a fairly dense planet, containing more mass than all the rest of the Solar System combined, outside of the Sun. Therefore, even after we make allowances for difference of radius, quick and dirty calculation indicates that Jupiter has about as much angular momentum as all the rest of the Solar System put together, including the Sun.
But that should not be! You see, if all the rotational energy in the Solar System is generated by gravitational collapse, then almost all the momentum in the Solar System must be concentrated in the Sun. While not altogether impossible, it is exceedingly unlikely for any planetary material to be flung away from a condensing core without losing the rotational momentum it acquired by condensing in the first place.
Venus rotates backward on its axis, and radiates more energy than it receives from the Sun. At some stretch of the definition, Venus can he regarded as a miniature star. Dust clouds whirling in space are almost certain to be as homogeneous as any other gaseous mixture, so why is the chemistry of Venus grossly different from all the other inner planets? And why did Venus just happen to lock into a three-two orbital-rotational ratio with the Earth without inducing corresponding changes in the angular momentum of our planet? We are, after all, more alike in size and mass than any other bodies in the system, so any gravitational friction between us should he settled by mutual compromise; instead, Venus gave in to us entirely.
The Earth has by far the largest satellite in the Solar System, and the farthest away. The moon, in fact, is not a satellite of the Earth at al1. Moon and Earth form a double planetary system, both going around the Sun while the Moon is perturbed to cross and recross the Earth's orbit. If you draw the orbits of the Earth and the Moon to scale, you will see for yourself that the Moon never curves around the Earth as the orbit of a true satellite must. The Moon always falls in a curve to the Sun - sometimes more, sometimes less. When the curve is tighter, the Moon accelerates and passes the Earth; when the curve is less, the Moon falls back until it is swept back across the Earth's orbit again.
The polar axes of the Earth and Mars are tilted nearly 30 degrees from the plane of their orbits. When a nebula condenses into a disc, all spins must be in the same plane. One of Mars's satellites, Phobos, completes an orbital revolution before Mars makes a polar rotation. Such excess of angular velocity makes Phobos one body in the solar system that could have been cast off by centrifugal force, but it is generally agreed to be a captured asteroid.
The Nebular Hypothesis does not account for the swarms of broken rocks and planetoids orbiting the sun between Mars and Jupiter.



the end after a big unposted chunk ------below








If you find a thin, vibrant disc, dust the surface with powder, and make it resonate to a musical tone, the powder will move into concentric windrows, spaced a wavelength apart. As the circles approach the center, radial vibrations break up the circular pattern. What you see is a model representing the mechanics of Bode's Law and the General Theory of Relativity.

​

If Velikovsky's scenario were staged during human memory, the people who saw the action were not living on Earth. They were Martians. As Mars is older than the Earth in its physical evolution, people on Mars may be expected to he more advanced technologically than we are now. Once they saw that alien squatters were going to break their leasehold on Sunny Acres, everyone who could raise the price of a ticket on the space ark would pack their luggage with Kodachrome, disconnect the household utilities, and hop over to the Mediterranean Riviera for the Ice Age - bringing their pyramid and crystal technology with them.
Support for the hypothesis of interplanetary colonization is found in comparative anatomy. The human animal is rather poorly adapted to conditions on Earth. The sunlight is too bright for our eyes and skin, our backbones are too long, our feet are too weak, and our weight is ruinous to posture. If all creatures' morphology is determined by an evolutionary adaptation to its environment we are best adapted for comfortable living on Mars, providing the climate were sweetened.
The white race appears to be new to this planet; civilization appears to have arrived suddenly and fully blown, then decaying for millennia after its initial appearance before recovering to our present eminence. The prehistoric aborigines of the cradles of civilization say they were conquered by Aryan invaders. The word Aryan is a variation of Arean, and Arean means Martian. There is a tribe in the Mideast who claims its ancestors came from Mars. As myths go this one requires a sophistication of concept not proper to a primitive tribe; the Earth must be recognized as a planet unsupported in empty space and the bright reddish star must he recognized as another world.
The most interesting evidence for the Martian origin of the white race, if not an extraterrestrial immigration for all of man kind is provided by science reporter Gay Gaer Luce in Body Time. Biologists acknowledge that the vital rhythms of all creatures are established by their place of origin; this is why subequatorial plants bloom for us in the North at Christmas, and species entrained to the periods of the Moon are believed to have evolved in the tidal ocean. When experimental human subjects are isolated from all terrestrial rhythms as much as possible to discover the free period of the human body, it has been found that most people settle into a daily rhythm of sleep and work of twenty-four hours and forty minutes. Twenty-four hours and forty minutes is the daily period of Mars.
The mechanics of evolution make it practically impossible for any species to develop without integration with its environment yet this is just what we have managed to do. We are profoundly out of order with the rest of terrestrial life. Everywhere we go we destroy the natural environment with wholesale insensitivity to its rhythms and balances. We are reconstructing the entire surface of this planet to suit our alien dimensions. The distress we stir on this Earth may be due to the fact we don't belong here.

Next: How to Build a Flying Saucer​

 

[Cliffy]

The distress we stir on this Earth may be due to the fact we don't belong here.

darkbeaver,

That is how I've felt about it for decades, and although some have agreed jokingly, I have seen how alien we feel to this environment. I wonder, tough, if aboriginal peoples living in harmony with their environment have exhibited this pattern?

I have lived in BC since '72 and I have witnessed the wholesale slaughter of our forests and most of the wildlife that depends on it. Only a species out of tune with its environment could possibly do something that stupid, unless we are trying to recreate the atmosphere of our home planet.

That should rile up the loggers on here!

 

[darkbeaver]

The distress we stir on this Earth may be due to the fact we don't belong here.

darkbeaver,

That is how I've felt about it for decades, and although some have agreed jokingly, I have seen how alien we feel to this environment. I wonder, tough, if aboriginal peoples living in harmony with their environment have exhibited this pattern?

I have lived in BC since '72 and I have witnessed the wholesale slaughter of our forests and most of the wildlife that depends on it. Only a species out of tune with its environment could possibly do something that stupid, unless we are trying to recreate the atmosphere of our home planet.

That should rile up the loggers on here!

I have the same feeling. And still in the midst of economic meltdown and spreading war I can hear the lunatics spouting nonsence about competition and opportunity and stepping up to the ****ing plate with improved efficiencies so like you say it's not stretching the imagination very much to consider our possible alien origin.

 

[L Gilbert]

Sorry, eanassir, you've been shown to be wildly off the mark in astronomy, physics, and chemistry, and yet you continue to spew your tripe from an obviously erroneous interpretation of a book whose topic is about a figment of someone's imagination. So who is the idiot and fool? Sorry, it isn't me.

Are you going to reply to what I said (There is a difference between the surface and the interior. If there is ice on the surface I would bet that there would be water below the surface. I was never in contention about water existing BELOW the surface. Only that I am 99.9*% sure that there isn't any above the surface. ) or are you going to stick with spewing your gibberish?

 

[L Gilbert]

So my post is an alternate theory; but your post is only conveying theory and dictating from NASA and others.

Again, what you say is not theory. It is merely hypothesis and hypothesis that is easily refuted. Your problem is that in spite of having been refuted many times by a few people, you continue to post the same crap. And the reason that people repeat what NASA and others have said is because they are being factual, unlike you.
Go play in your sandbox, little boy, and leave us grownups to discuss the realities of the universe.

 

[L Gilbert]

NASA on mars

excerpt:



various websites estimate the temperature of the earth's core at between 3000°C and 7000 °C

So Mars' 1500° isn't hot? It's only "boiled egg" hot?


melting points of metal, metals, metallurgy, how to

 

[L Gilbert]

DB i think you have a point. Things have been fairly heated recently in this type of thread. Let's be nice

Personally i think the OP is outrageously unscientific and frankly laughable... but eanassir has never called me a bad name

So why would it even be considered to be left in the science forum. Or even in the "alternate THEORY" forum? THAT is laughable.

 

[Scott Free]

That is how I've felt about it for decades, and although some have agreed jokingly, I have seen how alien we feel to this environment. I wonder, tough, if aboriginal peoples living in harmony with their environment have exhibited this pattern?

I have lived in BC since '72 and I have witnessed the wholesale slaughter of our forests and most of the wildlife that depends on it. Only a species out of tune with its environment could possibly do something that stupid, unless we are trying to recreate the atmosphere of our home planet.

That should rile up the loggers on here!

Any species left unchecked will expand beyond what its environment can sustain. It turns out humans are no different than any other animal. We are quite indigenous and behave predictably.

Our numbers will increase until we have stressed our environment beyond all capacity, then we will have a sudden and quick die off and, in all likelihood, will completely destroy our species in the process.

 

[hermanntrude]

So Mars' 1500° isn't hot? It's only "boiled egg" hot?


melting points of metal, metals, metallurgy, how to

certainly it's hot in human terms. But it's only just hot enough to melt iron, for instance, like earth's core is. The result is that earth's core is primarily liquid iron, giving rise to a magnetic field, whereas Mars's core is squishy but not liquid.

remember that there's also lots of carbon and other stuff, which raises the melting point of the core to a higher temperature than that of pure carbon.

 

[hermanntrude]

So why would it even be considered to be left in the science forum. Or even in the "alternate THEORY" forum? THAT is laughable.

well there isnt an alternate hypothesis forum. And hypothesis vs theory is a matter of semantics for the average person. It's a bit nit-picky for us to start addressing that issue at this stage.

 

[hermanntrude]

Any species left unchecked will expand beyond what its environment can sustain. It turns out humans are no different than any other animal. We are quite indigenous and behave predictably.

Our numbers will increase until we have stressed our environment beyond all capacity, then we will have a sudden and quick die off and, in all likelihood, will completely destroy our species in the process.

or here's the optimistic prediction:

humans realise they screwed up things on earth and start up civilisations elsewhere in the solar system, where they live in a more sustainable manner and continue to spread out through the galaxy in a star-trek-like fashion

 

[L Gilbert]

The distress we stir on this Earth may be due to the fact we don't belong here.

rofl We are no more alien to Earth than a malignant neoplasm is to the human body or binomial Aphtae epizooticae is to a cow.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoplasm

darkbeaver,

That is how I've felt about it for decades, and although some have agreed jokingly, I have seen how alien we feel to this environment. I wonder, tough, if aboriginal peoples living in harmony with their environment have exhibited this pattern?

I have lived in BC since '72 and I have witnessed the wholesale slaughter of our forests and most of the wildlife that depends on it. Only a species out of tune with its environment could possibly do something that stupid, unless we are trying to recreate the atmosphere of our home planet.

That should rile up the loggers on here!

Nevermind that the past few gov'ts we've had in BC have done nothing but mismanage the forests dreadfully.

 

[L Gilbert]

well there isnt an alternate hypothesis forum. And hypothesis vs theory is a matter of semantics for the average person. It's a bit nit-picky for us to start addressing that issue at this stage.

Perhaps, but he is still quoting these idiotic hypotheses from that interpretation of a obviously unscientific religious text.

 

[Scott Free]

or here's the optimistic prediction:

humans realise they screwed up things on earth and start up civilisations elsewhere in the solar system, where they live in a more sustainable manner and continue to spread out through the galaxy in a star-trek-like fashion

That's optimistic?

Star Trek is about American imperialism and hegemony!! I see little difference between captain Kirk and Cortes.

 

[hermanntrude]

That's optimistic?

Star Trek is about American imperialism and hegemony!! I see little difference between captain Kirk and Cortes.

well maybe not quite as dark and heavy as star-trek, but remember star trek is told from the point of view of the military. the people on the planets usually have a good time and wear very few clothes

 

[darkbeaver]

The Nebular Hypothesis does not account for the swarms of broken rocks and planetoids orbiting the sun between Mars and Jupiter.

Any body got any ideas about how come we don't have a perfect solar system. Could it be that we are regularly scrambled by maverick chunks of sufficient mass? Where did the old guys get their wild stories from anyway? They were better writers then we have today eh? Imagination was better 10,000 years ago it seems. You know mythologizing events was and is a necessary part of cultural developement and social continuity. Very natural for us and always has a base of fact.