Objections of disbelievers to the Prophet

[Serryah]

I mean: God let the mistake be done by the Prophet without the angel telling him: this is wrong.
Like what Jonah did and David did for example.

I mean: God allowed this to occur, not that He made it lawful to the Prophet, but He let it happen without alerting the prophet to its wrong: to make this a lesson to people that the prophet is a human like them, and he might make mistakes.

That's still countering the idea that God is a Good God if allowing the prophets to make mistakes that could be linked back to God.

The excuse "God allowed this to occur" is an excuse that anyone could use for anything.

When someone is a prophet they're supposed to be "better" than regular people because they have that connection to God.

If they're not, then they're just like anyone else.

 

[Torch light]

So is Abu Abd-Allah a prophet then?

I did not hear him say that, but once he said: "There is an angel who dictates to me, and I write [down what he dictates.]"

 

[Serryah]

How is this!?

You said "The prophet, any prophet, is a man: a good man: kind and merciful to the orphan and the weak, and many prophets were themselves orphans, like Moses and Mohammed, to feel pitty for the orphan and the poor."

Considering we only have stories/heresy about his early life, there isn't any actual proof he was a "Good man". Likely he just had his life, was both good and bad, until he called himself prophet at 40.

 

[Serryah]

I did not hear him say that, but once he said: "There is an angel who dictates to me, and I write [down what he dictates.]"

Really?

Then why did you lie?


Torch light said:
Abu Abd-Allah said to me in this respect: {"Sometimes when I am about to do some bad deed, I hear or perceive someone saying to me: "You are an old man; this is shameful and not proper for you."}

 

[Torch light]

That's still countering the idea that God is a Good God if allowing the prophets to make mistakes that could be linked back to God.

The excuse "God allowed this to occur" is an excuse that anyone could use for anything.

When someone is a prophet they're supposed to be "better" than regular people because they have that connection to God.

If they're not, then they're just like anyone else.

It may be I have mistaken the expression: I told you that He let this happen, without interfering with the prophet: like Jonah when he fled and rebelled against God's command, and like Moses when he, being furious, threw the stone tablets forcibly on the ground, and the tablets were broken up, etc.
Then such behavior is condemned and corrected.
The mistakes are not linked back to God; in such case, the prophet acted on his own accord.
.

 

[Torch light]

Really?

Then why did you lie?


Torch light said:
Abu Abd-Allah said to me in this respect: {"Sometimes when I am about to do some bad deed, I hear or perceive someone saying to me: "You are an old man; this is shameful and not proper for you."}

I tell you what I know and what I heard only without increasing or decreasing.
But he said that he was the Mahdi who knew the Quran interpretation.

 

[Torch light]

You said "The prophet, any prophet, is a man: a good man: kind and merciful to the orphan and the weak, and many prophets were themselves orphans, like Moses and Mohammed, to feel pitty for the orphan and the poor."

Considering we only have stories/heresy about his early life, there isn't any actual proof he was a "Good man". Likely he just had his life, was both good and bad, until he called himself prophet at 40.

Mohammed was known as "the truthful man" before his prophethood, and known for his good manners and morale.

 

[Serryah]

I tell you what I know and what I heard only without increasing or decreasing.
But he said that he was the Mahdi who knew the Quran interpretation.

No, you said that Abu TOLD you this.

Then you said you hadn't spoken to him.

Then you said, again, "Once he said".

So how can anyone now believe you, when it's clear that you are willing to lie about people you supposedly respect?

You aren't helping yourself by lying, and then continuing to lie, Torchy.

It may be I have mistaken the expression: I told you that He let this happen, without interfering with the prophet: like Jonah when he fled and rebelled against God's command, and like Moses when he, being furious, threw the stone tablets forcibly on the ground, and the tablets were broken up, etc.
Then such behavior is condemned and corrected.
The mistakes are not linked back to God; in such case, the prophet acted on his own accord.
.

That does not negate my point: prophets are supposed to be better than people normally, because of their direct connection to God. If they act out, it puts into question their validity of being prophets.

Sure, they are men and to me, of course they're going to make mistakes and screw things up.

So if you are admitting that your prophets can make mistakes despite their connection to God, so can others.

Which doesn't make your religion any more special than any other.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

You aren't helping yourself by lying, and then continuing to lie, Torchy.

To be fair to Torchy, there's nothing malicious or self-interested in his lies. He thinks he's telling the truth.

He just ain't the most stable jar on the shelf.

 

[Torch light]

No, you said that Abu TOLD you this.

Then you said you hadn't spoken to him.

Then you said, again, "Once he said".

Are you drunk?

That does not negate my point: prophets are supposed to be better than people normally, because of their direct connection to God. If they act out, it puts into question their validity of being prophets.

Prophets are righteous men; their mistakes are mild and few, like they might buy something, and they discover it was bad stuff.
Or they might be cheated by somebody by lies and deception: so they might believe that one; or something like that; but of course they are pious and Godfearing and they avoid crimes, sins and transgression on others and they avoid the major sins and they obey God's commandments.
If they commit some mistake, God will expose this to people so that they would not imitate them in this respect; like when Abraham asked forgiveness for his father the idolater, and then he repented from this when he discovered his father insisting on his idolatry, and like when Noah interceded for his son Canaan who was drowned together with the disbelievers, then he repented and asked God's forgiveness when He told him that the intercession is not accepted for disbelievers.

Quran 7: 188, which means:
(Say: "For myself, I cannot bring any benefit, nor avert any harm; only what God wills [to bring benefit to me or avert harm from me.]

Had I known [the knowledge] about the [unknown] future, I would have increased my wealth, and no harm would have afflicted me.

I am only a warner [to you against the idolatry], and a bearer of good news [of Paradise and prosperity] to those who believe [in God and His messenger, and who do not associate anyone with God.])

http://quran-ayat.com/pret/7.htm#a7_188

Sure, they are men and to me, of course they're going to make mistakes and screw things up.

So if you are admitting that your prophets can make mistakes despite their connection to God, so can others.

Which doesn't make your religion any more special than any other.

None is infallible but only God Almighty.
But the Godfearing strive to obey God and His commandments and to avoid the disobedience and the sins.
Should they mistake and sin unintentionally, they repent at once and ask God's forgiveness and correct their conduct.
The prophet has some angels in front and behind him, to watch over him and to protect him from the devils, and if the angel sees the prophet about to mistake, the angel might alert him, according to God's order.

Quran 33: 45-46, which mean:
(45. O prophet, We have sent you [to people] as a witness [of them], a bearer of good news [to those of them who believe], and a warner [of punishment to any who denies and does not believe],
46. And as a preacher to God's [ worship] by His leave, and [the Quran is] a lamp that gives light.)

http://quran-ayat.com/pret/33.htm#a33_45

 

[Serryah]

Are you drunk?

LOL - no, I don't drink.

Don't like being called out for lying?

I quoted YOUR EXACT WORDS.

Yet you deny them?

Maybe English isn't your first language and you have problems with it, but you could have said that and explained better. But instead you lied twice, three times over...

Prophets are righteous men; their mistakes are mild and few, like they might buy something, and they discover it was bad stuff.
Or they might be cheated by somebody by lies and deception: so they might believe that one; or something like that; but of course they are pious and Godfearing and they avoid crimes, sins and transgression on others and they avoid the major sins and they obey God's commandments.
If they commit some mistake, God will expose this to people so that they would not imitate them in this respect; like when Abraham asked forgiveness for his father the idolater, and then he repented from this when he discovered his father insisting on his idolatry, and like when Noah interceded for his son Canaan who was drowned together with the disbelievers, then he repented and asked God's forgiveness when He told him that the intercession is not accepted for disbelievers.

Quran 7: 188, which means:
(Say: "For myself, I cannot bring any benefit, nor avert any harm; only what God wills [to bring benefit to me or avert harm from me.]

Had I known [the knowledge] about the [unknown] future, I would have increased my wealth, and no harm would have afflicted me.

I am only a warner [to you against the idolatry], and a bearer of good news [of Paradise and prosperity] to those who believe [in God and His messenger, and who do not associate anyone with God.])

http://quran-ayat.com/pret/7.htm#a7_188

None is infallible but only God Almighty.

If you believe, sure, that's true.

But that opens up a can of worms that, are you sure you want to open up?

But the Godfearing strive to obey God and His commandments and to avoid the disobedience and the sins.
Should they mistake and sin unintentionally, they repent at once and ask God's forgiveness and correct their conduct.
The prophet has some angels in front and behind him, to watch over him and to protect him from the devils, and if the angel sees the prophet about to mistake, the angel might alert him, according to God's order.

Quran 33: 45-46, which mean:
(45. O prophet, We have sent you [to people] as a witness [of them], a bearer of good news [to those of them who believe], and a warner [of punishment to any who denies and does not believe],
46. And as a preacher to God's [ worship] by His leave, and [the Quran is] a lamp that gives light.)

http://quran-ayat.com/pret/33.htm#a33_45

Torchy, for all your preaching, I've pointed out that you're a liar, and where you lied.

So why should anyone pay attention to the rest of what you say?

Preach all the selective Ayat's all you want; again, I'd prefer to read the whole Soora to get the true meaning of what's going on, than cherry picked versions.

 

[Said1]

so what? If he is 50 or so? Females get maturity earlier than males, and females reach menopause at 45 or above, while man remains sexually active until later old age.

So it is history that is much variable; if you want to be sure, see the different opinions about incidents and conflicts at this present time.
Those who object that man may marry after his middle age!? they object to marriage but they give to adultery and relations!! and homosexuality.. and to marriage they object.
So it is out of hypocrisy (and social bounds) that you claim: you do not want legal sex (through legal marriage) when you are still active, while the wife has finished her capacity. Therefore, many of them make sexual relations outside the door.
Now, the West does not want merely to forgive homosexuality, but to enhance it and increase it even teaching innocent children in schools about that.

Children cannot be married, because their decision (to agree or to refuse) is legally defective until they reach puberty.

OMFG.

No one cares if a middle aged man gets married.

Anyway, I try to avoid replying to strawman, they just flap in the wind on a stick. Effective at scaring birds, but that's about it.

Caw. Caw.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

OMFG.

No one cares if a middle aged man gets married.

Anyway, I try to avoid replying to strawman, they just flap in the wind on a stick. Effective at scaring birds, but that's about it.

Caw. Caw.