Obama Administration dropped the ball & and can the people sue the government?

[B00Mer]

Re: Obama Administration dropped the ball & and can the people sue the government?

Congratulations. Too bad Boomer can't answer for himself so you stand up for a guy who has never won a single debate in this forum.

Really?

It's obvious your reading skills are a little limited, as I posted on this thread I was not blaming "Obama" however the FBI, which is part of the Obama Administration..

But you in your blind fury to defend your Obama, wet himself to get your drivel posted on this forum.

It's seems that the Russians not only notified the FBI but when they failed to act, the Russians notified the CIA.

CIA had Boston bombing suspect Tamerlan Tsarnaev's name added to terror database before attack - CBS News

The United States also funded this attack.. the Boston Bomber parents and kids lived on welfare since they arrived as refugees in the United States.

The older bother, married with a house and kids was still milking the system. WOW!!

Tamerlan Tsarnaev lived on Massachusetts welfare before Boston bombings Metro.us

Lastly, they came here as refugee from their country, yet returned to his country of origin for 6 months..

Gopher, you can now pull your head out of Obama's a$$, and he won't be running for President for a 3rd term. Only history will decide how good or bad a president he was.. not a few Internet posts.

So quite being an Obama Cheerleader, you diva Gopher.

 

[EagleSmack]

Re: Obama Administration dropped the ball & and can the people sue the government?

The Boston Bombing... brought to you in part by the Massachusetts Department of Transitional Assistance (welfare).

That's right... Liberal US Democrats from the ROCK solid blue state of Massachusetts assisted these Islamic Terrorists and they are trying to cover it all up.

Patrick administration refuses to release Tsarnaev brothers' records | Boston Herald

 

[Sal]

Re: Obama Administration dropped the ball & and can the people sue the government?

No, I think he very much understood the consequences of his actions. Blow up bomb, kill and injure lots of people. That's not rocket science...this kid was supposedly pre-med.

Did he understand the consequences that would happen to him if he got caught? That's debatable, in that it's quite possible the idea of getting caught might not have crossed his mind. That I can buy a 19 year old not having a clue about.

Oh at 19 there is enough life experience to know that planting a bomb, killing a cop, carjacking, and getting into a firefight with hundreds of cops to know you are doing something very bad.

I'm sorry Sal but but he knew the consequences of this.



You know I heard that... how can a 19 year old freshman at UMASS Dartmouth be a pre-med student? He graduated high school last year.

I really don't think a 19 year can fully appreciate killing another human being until he has done it. I don't believe he has the life experience to understand what "taking a life" means or what it does to a human being when they take another life. And as for pre med I agree, no way. Don't even know why they threw that out there.

Regardless, he must now find a way to deal with what he has done. My guess is, they will inject him quickly. I hope not, I think he needs to contemplate exactly what he has done for quite some time as well as experience the stress of trial and knowing he will die for his actions.

 

[SLM]

Re: Obama Administration dropped the ball & and can the people sue the government?

I really don't think a 19 year can fully appreciate killing another human being until he has done it. I don't believe he has the life experience to understand what "taking a life" means or what it does to a human being when they take another life.

Can anyone fully appreciate what it is to kill another human being until they do it? I'd bet not, but I do believe that 19 is definitely old enough to know better, life experience or not.

Regardless, he must now find a way to deal with what he has done. My guess is, they will inject him quickly. I hope not, I think he needs to contemplate exactly what he has done for quite some time as well as experience the stress of trial and knowing he will die for his actions.

He won't even see trial for well over a year. Both the prosecution and the defense will need that long just to prepare for it. As for dying, there is a possibility they may plead him out depending on how co-operative he is. Maybe.

 

[Sal]

Re: Obama Administration dropped the ball & and can the people sue the government?

Can anyone fully appreciate what it is to kill another human being until they do it? I'd bet not, but I do believe that 19 is definitely old enough to know better, life experience or not.

I think the older brother knew exactly what he wanted to do, I think he looked forward to it. I think he embraced it. I think from the personality reports on the younger one, no. I think he loved his brother and wanted to please. But we will know more about it after they begin to profile him.

 

[SLM]

Re: Obama Administration dropped the ball & and can the people sue the government?

I think the older brother knew exactly what he wanted to do, I think he looked forward to it. I think he embraced it. I think from the personality reports on the younger one, no. I think he loved his brother and wanted to please. But we will know more about it after they begin to profile him.

No doubt, I don't believe this guy is the blood thirsty one of the two. I do think that he would have to swallow his conscience in order to partake in placing a bomb in a public place. No way anyone reaches that age without understanding the impact that will have. He may not have taken the time to stop and think about it, he may have ignored his conscience on it, but at the end of the day those are choices he made. His age doesn't excuse him from that in my book.

 

[Sal]

Re: Obama Administration dropped the ball & and can the people sue the government?

No doubt, I don't believe this guy is the blood thirsty one of the two. I do think that he would have to swallow his conscience in order to partake in placing a bomb in a public place. No way anyone reaches that age without understanding the impact that will have. He may not have taken the time to stop and think about it, he may have ignored his conscience on it, but at the end of the day those are choices he made. His age doesn't excuse him from that in my book.

I am not seeking to excuse him. I am seeking to understand. In order to do so we have to remove ourselves from the emotion of the act. I do not believe from the information they have given us that he fully understood the reality of what he was about to do. He was persuaded to commit the acts. His brother fully immersed himself into radical Islam after having lived in the Western culture, why.

The psychology of motivation, manipulation, radicalism, fascinate me. I like to examine things from all angles.

 

[EagleSmack]

Re: Obama Administration dropped the ball & and can the people sue the government?

I really don't think a 19 year can fully appreciate killing another human being until he has done it. I don't believe he has the life experience to understand what "taking a life" means or what it does to a human being when they take another life.

Ok... he plants a bomb and is responsible for killing 3...

Then he and his brother kill a cop...

Then he tries to run over the cops putting the cuffs on his brother... they dive out of the way and he runs over his brother...

And you think he's still in the unaware stage?

Regardless, he must now find a way to deal with what he has done. My guess is, they will inject him quickly. I hope not, I think he needs to contemplate exactly what he has done for quite some time as well as experience the stress of trial and knowing he will die for his actions.

It's Massachusetts... they are not going to execute anyone. Folks around here are still trying to pin this on the Tea Party and FOX news.

I think the older brother knew exactly what he wanted to do, I think he looked forward to it. I think he embraced it. I think from the personality reports on the younger one, no. I think he loved his brother and wanted to please. But we will know more about it after they begin to profile him.

I loved my older brother too when I was 19. I wouldn't even change his infant son's diaper when he asked.

I am not seeking to excuse him. I am seeking to understand. In order to do so we have to remove ourselves from the emotion of the act. I do not believe from the information they have given us that he fully understood the reality of what he was about to do. He was persuaded to commit the acts. His brother fully immersed himself into radical Islam after having lived in the Western culture, why.

.

His brother mostly likely did introduce him to radical Islam and the younger ADULT brother embraced it fully.

 

[SLM]

Re: Obama Administration dropped the ball & and can the people sue the government?

I am not seeking to excuse him. I am seeking to understand. In order to do so we have to remove ourselves from the emotion of the act. I do not believe from the information they have given us that he fully understood the reality of what he was about to do. He was persuaded to commit the acts. His brother fully immersed himself into radical Islam after having lived in the Western culture, why.

The psychology of motivation, manipulation, radicalism, fascinate me. I like to examine things from all angles.

I know you're not excusing him, I get your angle. All I'm saying is, someone who's 19 years of age is well old enough to ask the questions and if he doesn't, then that's a choice he's making. I too believe that, were it not for the older brother, he probably would never have been involved with something like this. (At least that's my impression thus far.)

Let's look at it this way, take it out of the spectrum of any kind of radical indoctrination. A 19 year old guy gets in the car with his very intoxicated brother, who he both adores and worships and who keeps telling him he's okay to drive, and said older brother plows through a bus stop and kills a bunch of people. Now forget about whether or not you can charge the passenger, what I'm asking is, should the 19 year old have known better? To my way of thinking he should have, he may have stuffed his doubts and concerns deep inside himself out of blind worship and faith in his older brother, but he should have and probably would know better.

Same thing goes for placing bombs in crowded places.

 

[Sal]

Re: Obama Administration dropped the ball & and can the people sue the government?

Ok... he plants a bomb and is responsible for killing 3...

Then he and his brother kill a cop...

Then he tries to run over the cops putting the cuffs on his brother... they dive out of the way and he runs over his brother...

And you think he's still in the unaware stage?






It's Massachusetts... they are not going to execute anyone. Folks around here are still trying to pin this on the Tea Party and FOX news.



I loved my older brother too when I was 19. I wouldn't even change his infant son's diaper when he asked.



His brother mostly likely did introduce him to radical Islam and the younger ADULT brother embraced it fully.

lol...not to into psychology I see. Like the black and white approach...

 

[EagleSmack]

Re: Obama Administration dropped the ball & and can the people sue the government?

lol...not to into psychology I see. Like the black and white approach...

I'm sorry but you're trying to excuse him... even though you say you aren't. You do not think a 19 year old is capable of doing something so heinous because to you it is beyond belief that he did. You really are trying to excuse him because of his young age.

When I turned 19, I was already in the Marines for 6 months. I knew exactly what killing was. So doesn't he.

 

[Sal]

Re: Obama Administration dropped the ball & and can the people sue the government?

I know you're not excusing him, I get your angle. All I'm saying is, someone who's 19 years of age is well old enough to ask the questions and if he doesn't, then that's a choice he's making. I too believe that, were it not for the older brother, he probably would never have been involved with something like this. (At least that's my impression thus far.)

Let's look at it this way, take it out of the spectrum of any kind of radical indoctrination. A 19 year old guy gets in the car with his very intoxicated brother, who he both adores and worships and who keeps telling him he's okay to drive, and said older brother plows through a bus stop and kills a bunch of people. Now forget about whether or not you can charge the passenger, what I'm asking is, should the 19 year old have known better? To my way of thinking he should have, he may have stuffed his doubts and concerns deep inside himself out of blind worship and faith in his older brother, but he should have and probably would know better.

Same thing goes for placing bombs in crowded places.

he should have, yes, and I too speculate that without his brother he "likely" never would have gone in this direction

a kid did something really bad today at school... a really really good kid... I heard his mum's approach with him and it was quite brilliant... she brought him swiftly to an understanding of what he had done to this other child without making him feeling belittled or defensive...she made him feel connected... there's something in that approach that is quite enlightened.

all this radical left, radical right is mind numbing. I believe again it comes back to the ability to distance one's self... it's that them and us mentality... it is black and it goes nowhere but bad

 

[EagleSmack]

Re: Obama Administration dropped the ball & and can the people sue the government?

a kid did something really bad today at school... a really really good kid... I heard his mum's approach with him and it was quite brilliant... she brought him swiftly to an understanding of what he had done to this other child without making him feeling belittled or defensive...she made him feel connected... there's something in that approach that is quite enlightened.

Dzhokhar... the 19 year old is not a kid... he is a man. He is not in grade school... he was a freshman in college.

 

[SLM]

Re: Obama Administration dropped the ball & and can the people sue the government?

he should have, yes, and I too speculate that without his brother he "likely" never would have gone in this direction

But....shoulda/coulda/woulda....in the end, he did follow so I think it's important to draw that line and say "Understandable that it might not have happen were it not for these circumstances but that doesn't diminish his culpability for the role he did play."

a kid did something really bad today at school... a really really good kid... I heard his mum's approach with him and it was quite brilliant... she brought him swiftly to an understanding of what he had done to this other child without making him feeling belittled or defensive...she made him feel connected... there's something in that approach that is quite enlightened.

That's important to do....with a child. With someone who willfully participated in an action that resulted in loss of life, I'm not really that concerned with his self-esteem. Not that I'm necessarily looking to bash it either, but it's just not my primary concern.

And I think it's really important to point out that the authorities speaking and interviewing him will probably not be giving him a really hard time either. Every instance that I've seen reported of the police interviewing, despite the 'good cop/bad cop' persona that's popular on Prime Time TV, they just talk to them. They treat them like human beings because they want them to act like human beings. (Isn't that essentially what the mom was doing in your example?) Have you ever seen the clips of the interview with Russell Williams that got the confession? I would imagine the majority of conversations to be of that caliber, they won't let him b.s. them, but neither will they want to totally alienate him if they can at all help it.

But through it all, you can never forget what he's done and you really can't let him forget it either.

 

[Sal]

Re: Obama Administration dropped the ball & and can the people sue the government?

But....shoulda/coulda/woulda....in the end, he did follow so I think it's important to draw that line and say "Understandable that it might not have happen were it not for these circumstances but that doesn't diminish his culpability for the role he did play."

That's important to do....with a child. With someone who willfully participated in an action that resulted in loss of life, I'm not really that concerned with his self-esteem. Not that I'm necessarily looking to bash it either, but it's just not my primary concern.

And I think it's really important to point out that the authorities speaking and interviewing him will probably not be giving him a really hard time either. Every instance that I've seen reported of the police interviewing, despite the 'good cop/bad cop' persona that's popular on Prime Time TV, they just talk to them. They treat them like human beings because they want them to act like human beings. (Isn't that essentially what the mom was doing in your example?) Have you ever seen the clips of the interview with Russell Williams that got the confession? I would imagine the majority of conversations to be of that caliber, they won't let him b.s. them, but neither will they want to totally alienate him if they can at all help it.

But through it all, you can never forget what he's done and you really can't let him forget it either.

I think I am not communicating well, as you do not understand what I am saying at all...but that's okay, it's not that important...

 

[gopher]

Re: Obama Administration dropped the ball & and can the people sue the government?

Really?

It's obvious your reading skills are a little limited, as I posted on this thread I was not blaming "Obama" however the FBI, which is part of the Obama Administration..

''The Obama Administration dropped the ball "again" - that's nothing new.. ''

As everybody knows responsibility goes to the top - except when it is a Republican in the White Wash House. Right wing hero Bush blamed faulty intelligence and every body under the sun when he couldn't find the WMD that he made up in his own drugged up mind. He was allowed by your dingle headed right wingers to get away with this lame brain excuse even though the Downing Street Memo clearly shows he made up the story in order to ''justify" his war on Iraq and to steal that's land's resources.

Putin supposedly advised the CIA and did nothing to stop the supposed threats. But he failed to inform Dagestan, Chechnya, and the Russian authorities not one of whom did anything to stop Tsarnaev. To this day Chechnya's president Kadyrov says there was no such activity in his country and that no terrorist training was given to the suspect in this case. The FBI found nothing. The CIA found nothing. Interpol found nothing. Al-Qaeda denies everything. So naturally it was Obama's administration (namely Obama himself) who dropped the ball.

That's cute. Brilliant, in fact. Everybody gets a free pass except for Obama. All the delusional right wing shít gets flung in his direction. And, in case you forgot, a person charged with a crime is assumed innocent until proven guilty. Without a conviction you cannot rightfully point a finger at anyone and accuse them of being responsible for the commission of a crime. So what would you have us do - put Obama on trial? Oh, by the way, there are more Republicans than Democrats on the House Judiciary Subcommittee On Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security. As a big favor to you, should we put any of them on trial as well?

There's a word for the bullshít campaign you're putting on here:

----------------


Here's something interesting that just came out from the NY Times:

FBI asks Russians - if you have anything why didn't you give it to us?

CIA asks Russians - if you have anything why didn't you give it to us?




Did Tamerlan Tsarnaev, Boston Bombing Suspect, Slip Under the Radar? - YouTube



Precisely the same question I posted here. So while the loony right wingers are playing the BLAME OBAMA game, nothing was offered to prove there was any connection between the suspects and organized terrorists.

 

[DurkaDurka]

Re: Obama Administration dropped the ball & and can the people sue the government?

In my opinion, his age should only be a mitigating factor as to whether he gets the death penalty. He should rot in jail for the rest of life and that be that. The hysteria that gets wound up with this sort of thing is unreal though, you have corn fed Americans who make this sort of slaughter look like kindgarten.

 

[gopher]

Re: Obama Administration dropped the ball & and can the people sue the government?

Tamerlan Tsarnaev: experts puzzled as hunt for terror links gleans little

Lack of connections to terrorist groups means experts are increasingly seeing the elder Tsarnaev as a self-radicalised lone wolf – underlining the daunting task of piecing together a motive


Tamerlan Tsarnaev: experts puzzled as hunt for terror links gleans little | World news | guardian.co.uk






Federal prosecutors are trying to piece together the complex web of influences that transformed a young man with no confirmed militant training or links, apparently acting with only the assistance of his younger brother, into a brutal bomber prepared to kill and maim in pursuit of a cause that remained largely unarticulated ... Yet so far the hunt for clues as to the motivation of the Tsarnaev brothers has failed to throw up concrete evidence that they were inspired to militancy by any particular extremist cleric or politician. Nor is there any known link to any nationalist or Islamist group in the Caucasus region that they regarded as their homeland ... the marathon bombings may have been carried out by two men acting as "lone wolves" ...






So where's the proof that the Obama administration dropped the ball?