North Korea nuke thread

[Kreskin]

Why does sitting at a table and having a conversation need to be an aggressive campaign? That's why he has the damn thing in the first place, to defend against aggressive campaigns. Leave Bush at home on the ranch. Let him mow the grass or feed the pigs. Please don't let him near foreign policy.

 

[EastSideScotian]

Not from Canada.

And why do you say that?

 

[Curiosity]

Why does sitting at a table and having a conversation need to be an aggressive campaign? That's why he has the damn thing in the first place, to defend against aggressive campaigns. Leave Bush at home on the ranch. Let him mow the grass or feed the pigs. Please don't let him near foreign policy.

Agreed Kreskin - that is not what I was referring to....

IF it was a matter of sitting around a table in discussion that would be fine but I heard from three networks this morning when I woke up that the U.S. will be expected to offer military threat if "talks
default" - this from China, Australia, Japan and the U.K. Because the U.S. has been in the DMZ for years
does not make them the "keeper of the Korean flame does it?" Is it not enough we have been feeding the people
in poverty kept there by Kim - so he could pour his assets into nuclear development?


If this turns into yet another mission of agression why does everyone expect that the U.S. and its people are going to fund yet another area of battle? I am against another solo USA trip to the coffin for the world communities wishing peace.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6033457.stm

 

[Johnny Utah]

A Toast to Madeline Albright and the Clinton Administration for this day couldn't have been possible without them and their failed North Korean policy, Cheers!

 

[Hotshot]

What people do inside their own borders is their business. If they are subjected to the actions of a tyrant its the peoples responsibility to remove their own dictator, that is not our call. We should be minding the store at home to ensure we don't end up with the same fate. I don't think it is our business to remove any government from power except our own. Only when nations attack their neighbours should we go in. Come to think of it the only bully nation with an over agressive behavoir problem, is George Bush. He wants to impose his will on everyone these days. Maybe the world should put sanctions on America, for their international criminal behavior.

Grump, I agree with you on this issue. The yanks think they are the guardians of the world (when it suits them)

If North Korea has nucleur weapons, so be it. If Bushinski didn't go around antagonizing everyone, he would have nothing to worry about.

 

[EastSideScotian]

A Toast to Madeline Albright and the Clinton Administration for this day couldn't have been possible without them and their failed North Korean policy, Cheers!

Where can I get a sweet doo like that?

 

[earth_as_one]

550 tons is the equivalent amount of TNT which would produce the same size of explosion, not the size of the device. Most likely the technology came from Pakistan not China. Since Iran was part of the same network, very likely they also have the same weapon design but lack the fissionable material which comes from reprocessing uranium which has been converted to plutonium in a nuclear reactor (fastest cheapest) or from refining weapon grade uranium directly from uranium ore (slowest most expensive).

By comparison, the bomb which blew up Hiroshima was made from uranium and was a gun type device. The first bomb tested and the one dropped on Nagasaki were made from plutonium reprocessed from nuclear reactor fuel rods and was an implosion type device. All three devices yielded blasts equivalent to about 20 thousand tons of TNT (20 kiloton devices). They did not weigh that much.

By the way the Russians have pegged the explosion as equivalent to between 5 and 15 kilotons of TNT. Since the North Koreans called the Chinese 30 minutes before to warn them of the explosion its likely North Korean exploded a nuke. Then again its also possible North Korea exploded 10,000 tons of TNT to fool the world into thinking it has nukes.

Hey this happened on Bush's watch, not Clinton's. If you are going to go back in history and blame a former President, Truman is more culpable than Clinton.

 

[earth_as_one]

Likely North Korea and Iran noticed what the US does to countries that don't have nukes it doesn't like. If anything the US threatening a country with liberation by annihilation serves to motivate that country's leaders to develop nukes as a detererrent. At least that is why North Korea claims it went ahead with the test.

If Iraq had nukes and the means to drop them on major American cities, I bet the American public would have asked more questions before allowing their leaders to start a war with Iraq based on lies and deceptions.

As it is now, it wouldn't be that hard for North Korea to smuggle a nuclear weapon into the US in a container on a cargo ship. If they used Fedex it would be there the next day.

 

[jimmoyer]

So, North Korea is now in the nuclear club. So what. Are they going to bomb anyone? I very much doubt it.
------------------------------------------#juan-------------------------------------------------------------------------

That is not what the threat is.

The real threat is that North Korea has the chance in these modern times to sell
to well-financed individuals, or to non-nation-state groups.

The real threat was that North Korea is using this knowledge as an export product, recently
involved with Pakistan's nuclear godfather and with Libya (which got discovered) and Iran.

That's the threat.

And the additional threat is further nuclear proliferation, something where liberals used
to agree with conservatives. In fact liberals used to lead the vanguard on the matter.

Why is nuclear proliferation bad ?

This question never had to be asked in the old days.

But today you gotta go through the mechanics of it: one matter being that the more nations
and more particularly if individuals have the more chance for Murphy's Law to kick in sooner.

Let everyone have it.

Don't draw the line.

 

[Zzarchov]

Oh no! Not a couple bombs! and you say they have the capacity for 1-2 new bombs a year? Why in a mere 6,000 years they would equal current US nuclear capacity, also known as..giving them the entire span of human history over again.

Its actually alot weaker now that its in the nuclear club.

A non-nuclear nation can get away with alot of crap. Say provacative things, zoom into others airspace..and not face much more than reprimands. When your a nuclear power you look at another nuclear power wrong, and the war is on, and thats a war N Korea is barely able to even throw one punch in.

 

[Kreskin]

Agreed Kreskin - that is not what I was referring to....

IF it was a matter of sitting around a table in discussion that would be fine but I heard from three networks this morning when I woke up that the U.S. will be expected to offer military threat if "talks
default" - this from China, Australia, Japan and the U.K. Because the U.S. has been in the DMZ for years
does not make them the "keeper of the Korean flame does it?" Is it not enough we have been feeding the people
in poverty kept there by Kim - so he could pour his assets into nuclear development?


If this turns into yet another mission of agression why does everyone expect that the U.S. and its people are going to fund yet another area of battle? I am against another solo USA trip to the coffin for the world communities wishing peace.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6033457.stm

I too think the military threat is a waste of time. Even if you take him out who leads the insurgency to make it even worse? China?

I think they need to organize a real good piss up. Get hammered on rice wine and sign some deals.

 

[Curiosity]

Kreskin

That's what we need to replace military and world wars.... parties!

Lock them in with a goodly supply of sustenance and refuse to let them out til they broker some kind of deal for their countries - no shots fired.

If they subsequently break their deal - shunning - no trade - no money - nada.

 

[WilliamAshley]

The genie is out of the bottle. Discuss the situation here.

North Korea should have the right to nuclear and other technologies.
A world where sanctions occur due to liberty is a world of injustice and oppression.

---

I thought I might add ~~ he offered to give up his nukes for a role in the next james bond flic so why doesn't hollyood oblige?

 

[I think not]

This is wonderful, because some people hate Bush and his cohorts, let NK have nuclear weapons. When Bush announced he would develop mini-nukes, everybody went on a frenzy. When Kim tests a nuclear bomb, all of a sudden, it's a "sovereign" country and he can do whatever he wants. Some of you need your heads examined. I'll be the first to say the US should disarm its nuclear arsenal. But to make nothing of this, is quite frankly, misguided or at the very least distorted morality. Every new country that develops nuclear weapons brings us closer to the midnight hour.

Some of you say, nuclear states don't get invaded. Are you that naive or is the hatred that guides that stupid comment? No, they probably won't get invaded, they'll be bombed to oblivion from a rain of ICBM's never to have seen their enemy up close. If NK so much as twitches, the entire country will turn into glass within an hour. NK doesn't need nukes, they feel threatened by whom? They're the ones that invaded in the past and plunged the world into a Korean War.

Wake the phuck up!

 

[Sassylassie]

Jim wrote: The real threat is that North Korea has the chance in these modern times to sell
to well-financed individuals, or to non-nation-state groups.

Bingo and the chances of some Extremist Group getting their hands on a nuck is no joke, if there were justice this man would fall ill with Radiation Poisoning. He'd use it on his own people if he had to, he's crazy period.

 

[Johnny Utah]

This is wonderful, because some people hate Bush and his cohorts, let NK have nuclear weapons. When Bush announced he would develop mini-nukes, everybody went on a frenzy. When Kim tests a nuclear bomb, all of a sudden, it's a "sovereign" country and he can do whatever he wants. Some of you need your heads examined. I'll be the first to say the US should disarm its nuclear arsenal. But to make nothing of this, is quite frankly, misguided or at the very least distorted morality. Every new country that develops nuclear weapons brings us closer to the midnight hour.

Some of you say, nuclear states don't get invaded. Are you that naive or is the hatred that guides that stupid comment? No, they probably won't get invaded, they'll be bombed to oblivion from a rain of ICBM's never to have seen their enemy up close. If NK so much as twitches, the entire country will turn into glass within an hour. NK doesn't need nukes, they feel threatened by whom? They're the ones that invaded in the past and plunged the world into a Korean War.

Wake the phuck up!

These Hypocrites and that's what they are would be singing a different tune if they were living in South Korea or Japan..

 

[EastSideScotian]

I too think the military threat is a waste of time. Even if you take him out who leads the insurgency to make it even worse? China?

I think they need to organize a real good piss up. Get hammered on rice wine and sign some deals.

Iam Down for that... I call being the Canadian Diplomat....



Suckers

*swigs rice wine*

Ugh taste like ****

 

[Kreskin]

This is wonderful, because some people hate Bush and his cohorts, let NK have nuclear weapons. When Bush announced he would develop mini-nukes, everybody went on a frenzy. When Kim tests a nuclear bomb, all of a sudden, it's a "sovereign" country and he can do whatever he wants. Some of you need your heads examined. I'll be the first to say the US should disarm its nuclear arsenal. But to make nothing of this, is quite frankly, misguided or at the very least distorted morality. Every new country that develops nuclear weapons brings us closer to the midnight hour.

Some of you say, nuclear states don't get invaded. Are you that naive or is the hatred that guides that stupid comment? No, they probably won't get invaded, they'll be bombed to oblivion from a rain of ICBM's never to have seen their enemy up close. If NK so much as twitches, the entire country will turn into glass within an hour. NK doesn't need nukes, they feel threatened by whom? They're the ones that invaded in the past and plunged the world into a Korean War.

Wake the phuck up!

If Bush had shut his "avis-of-evil" mouth and not invaded another country as a recreational activity, not thrown out every nuclear agreement ever signed, not tossed aside the Geneva Convention on a "technicality", and not acted like a one-man nut in a Gunsmoke episode then perhaps the rest of world wouldn't be scrambling to arm themselves.

 

[EastSideScotian]

If Bush had shut his "avis-of-evil" mouth and not invaded another country as a recreational activity, not thrown out every nuclear agreement ever signed, not tossed aside the Geneva Convention on a "technicality", and not acted like a one-man nut in a Gunsmoke episode then perhaps the rest of world wouldn't be scrambling to arm themselves.

Sad as it is I agree. I mean terrorist and Extreamist blame Bush for alot of their woes, and Other Countries, can ethier use the fact that Bush is somewhat unstable himself, cant really tell what he will do next, and yes alittle off the Hinge...as away to armthemselves or even use it as an Exuse to do it.

Then again, the fact that they are doing it. Does create a threat. Makes Nuculear Arms more available to the wrong people.

Unfortuntley we live in a wolrd where he who ahs the most nukes has the most say. Other Countries dont like bing pushed around and it makes sense that they want to arm themselves too.

But, these countries Like North Korea, and Pakistan will stop at little to make a buck and thats somewhat scary. So where I do agree if the States can Arm themselves others should be able too, but that doesnt mean evryone should be able too, Escpecaily Nations with dictators that have a few issues with neighbours, that would use it all to readly, and sell it all to readly.

 

[earth_as_one]

Considering the US has continuously threatened North Korea's existance, who can blame them for wanting a nuclear deterrant?

MAD (Mutual Assured Destruction) prevented war on many occasions. Possessing nukes isn't enough for MAD. A country also has to have the means to deliver them. North Korea isn't there yet.

I agree its like North Korea will sell their nuclear secrets to the highest bidder. Besides WMDs, the country produces little else of value.

As far as the NPT is concerned, that agreement was signed nearly 40 years ago and the main violators are the US, Russia, UK, China and France.

Under the terms of that agreement, nations that did not possess nuclear weapons agreed not to pursue them in exchange for the right to peaceful nuclear technology. Nations that did possess nukes (US, Russia, UK, France, China) were supposed to rid themselves of their nuclear arsenals. Instead, the nuke nations have violated the terms of this agreement by not only maintaining their nukes, but by developing new types of nukes, and in the case of the US, officially drawing up plans to use nukes againt non-nuke nations.

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2619

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Non-Proliferation_Treaty

Also for a laugh:

The NPT: A Crisis of Non-Compliance
The United States supports the Non-Proliferation Treaty and is committed to its goals...

John R. Bolton, Under Secretary for Arms Control and International Security
http://www.state.gov/t/us/rm/31848.htm

As far as anyone knows, Iran has respected the main pillars of the NPT. It is not and never has been in violation of the NPT. Iran only failed to comply with voluntary as in non-compulsary parts of the treaty. The IAEA was supposed to help countries like Iran develop peaceful nuclear technology while ensuring NPT compliance.

North Korea's decision to withdraw from the NPT was the equivalent of declaring its intention to develop nuclear weapons just as India and Pakistan did before they tested their nukes.

Israel has nukes, but never signed the NPT.

In theory all NPT violators and non-signatories should face sanctions. Instead only the NPT violators and non-signatories the US doesn't like and a few who are in compliance face the threat of sanctions.

The NPT is a joke and is as good as dead. North Korea's test just made it official.