Negotiate with the Taliban

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Time Out
Feb 12, 2007
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Dick Cheney's visit to Afghanistan proved that continuing the war there is futile

By Eric Margolis


LONDON -- Washington and Ottawa keep telling us how well things are going in Afghanistan. But Vice-President Dick Cheney's brief visit there last week showed just the opposite.
Cheney arrived at Bagram air base, formerly the nerve centre for the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. Today, it plays the same role for the U.S. occupation. A suicide bomber attacked the base's main gate, killing 22 and hugely embarrassing Cheney. Worse, the 60-km "secure" highway between Bagram and Kabul has become so dangerous that Cheney had to fly into Kabul on a U.S. Air Force transport to meet with the American-installed figurehead leader, Hamid Karzai.
Anti-Western forces are quickly gaining ground in Afghanistan. What Washington and Ottawa keep claiming is an "anti-terrorist operation" against a handful of al-Qaida fighters and Taliban has, in fact, turned into fast-growing Afghan national resistance to foreign occupation. Were it not for the U.S. Air Force's might and ubiquitous presence, U.S., Canadian, and British troops would soon be driven from southern Afghanistan.
The fast-deteriorating situation in Afghanistan is provoking furious finger-pointing. Washington, London and Ottawa are blaming Pakistan for sheltering and abetting Taliban and its allies. Pakistan blames the feeble Karzai regime which can't control its own territory. Now, U.S intelligence reports that al-Qaida has reconstituted itself.
Cheney went on to Pakistan to threaten its military ruler, President Pervez Musharraf, with a cutoff of U.S. aid -- and perhaps much worse -- if he didn't crack down further on Pashtun tribesmen in the wild Northwest Frontier provinces who are aiding Taliban and other Pashtun and nationalist resistance groups.
The 40 million Pashtun, the world's largest tribe, have never recognized the British-drawn 1893 border between Pakistan and Afghanistan that cuts their traditional territory in two. They cross it at will and maintain close links with relatives and clansmen on the other side of the border.
In the 1980's and 90's, I explored and became fascinated by the wild, lawless, then little-known frontier tribal agencies of north and south Waziristan, Khyber, Mohmand, Orakzai and Malakand. Their warlike, fiercely independent tribes joined Pakistan in 1947 under constitutional guarantee of total autonomy that excluded government soldiers from the tribal agencies.
Intense U.S pressure forced Musharraf to violate the constitution and send troops into the tribal territories. The army shamefully launched heavy attacks, killing over 3,000 civilians. Outrage across Pakistan forced Musharraf to back down and withdraw some troops. "Fight India, not your own people," cried the press.
Most Pakistanis oppose the U.S occupation of Afghanistan, support their old ally, Taliban, and think better of Osama bin Laden than George Bush. Many senior and junior officers in Pakistan's powerful military and intelligence service, ISI, feel similarly and are furious at Musharraf for abandoning the Taliban and groups fighting to oust Indian rule in Kashmir.
Musharraf is thus caught between growing demands by Washington and his own angry people who increasingly see him as an American tool. Washington simply does not understand it has pushed the isolated, unpopular Musharraf too far already. If he is blown up or overthrown, Pakistan and its 40-60 nuclear weapons could turn into an even bigger and more dangerous hotbed of anti-western activity.
Foolish proposal
But that's just what is happening, as Washington blames its Afghanistan fiasco on whipping boy Pakistan, just as the Vietnam defeat was blamed on infiltration from Cambodia and Laos. Recently, a remarkably ill-informed defence minister foolishly proposed sending Canadian troops into Pakistan, a nation of 162 million with 619,000 very tough soldiers.
Picking a fight with old, loyal ally Pakistan is both morally wrong and fraught with untold dangers.
The U.S. has forgotten how it forced another compliant military dictator, Egypt's Anwar Sadat, into policies his people hated. He was assassinated, to national joy.
Negotiating a deal with Taliban and other Afghan resistance forces is the only way out of this morass, not expanding a war that is already lost.

http://www.torontosun.com/News/Columnists/Margolis_Eric/2007/03/04/3694599.html
 

Logic 7

Council Member
Jul 17, 2006
1,382
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38
Negotiation would save lives and property and provide stability. Whatever the Afghans want I'll support. The Talibans extremes can't be addressed militarily. IMO

I agree. However,Usa never negociate, and peace would means that their campaign contributors wouldnt make as much as profit as it the war keeps going on, and it will.
 

fuzzylogix

Council Member
Apr 7, 2006
1,204
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Dick Cheney's visit to Afghanistan proves that using Dick Cheney as a negotiator is futile.
 

Doryman

Electoral Member
Nov 30, 2005
435
2
18
St. John's
Negotiation would save lives and property and provide stability. Whatever the Afghans want I'll support. The Talibans extremes can't be addressed militarily. IMO


Every aghani I've met is pretty pleased to have the NATO troops in their country, actually. They want the Taliban out.


And I doubt negotiation will work. What will we give them? Money? Guns? Equipment? We've already given them that years ago, and they attacked the US anyway. I guess we could nuke Israel for them, that may make them happy, but that's about it.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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Every aghani I've met is pretty pleased to have the NATO troops in their country, actually. They want the Taliban out.


And I doubt negotiation will work. What will we give them? Money? Guns? Equipment? We've already given them that years ago, and they attacked the US anyway. I guess we could nuke Israel for them, that may make them happy, but that's about it.

I have no doubt that what you say about those you've met is true Doreyman, but they never attacked the US and like every other invader we will have to kill allof them and I don't think that'll help much.:wave:
 

Doryman

Electoral Member
Nov 30, 2005
435
2
18
St. John's
I have no doubt that what you say about those you've met is true Doreyman, but they never attacked the US and like every other invader we will have to kill allof them and I don't think that'll help much.:wave:


Islamist forces from Afghanistan didn't attack the US? Oh right, it was Mossad...
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
21,513
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Minnesota: Gopher State
```Usa never negociate```

BBC just gave a report where Bush has broken with his usual entrenched policy and has opened the door to negotiations with North Korea. A commentator said that is unprecedented in his regime. Perhaps some day there will be talks with Afghanistan as well.

Better to have constructive talk rather than bullet fire.
 

Zzarchov

House Member
Aug 28, 2006
4,600
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The problem is the Taliban arent' Afghanistan and never were.

They were a power in a civil war, the majority of the country ASKED us to come in.

It would be like America negotiating with the PQ in Quebec and giving them money and guns..I think our federal government might have a thing to say about that..
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
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Islamist forces from Afghanistan didn't attack the US? Oh right, it was Mossad...

Doryman... just be fair warned. He believes that the Bush Admin orchrestrated 9/11 and no planes smashed into anything. The WTC Towers were demolished by internal explosives, a missle hit the Pentagon, and nothing crashed into Shanksville, PA.
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
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The problem is the Taliban arent' Afghanistan and never were.

They were a power in a civil war, the majority of the country ASKED us to come in.

It would be like America negotiating with the PQ in Quebec and giving them money and guns..I think our federal government might have a thing to say about that..

The Taliban ruled much of Afghanistan prior to 9/11. There was only a small slice of the Northern part of the country that was held by the Northern Alliance.
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
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USA
Dick Cheney's visit to Afghanistan proved that continuing the war there is futile

By Eric Margolis


LONDON -- Washington and Ottawa keep telling us how well things are going in Afghanistan. But Vice-President Dick Cheney's brief visit there last week showed just the opposite.
Cheney arrived at Bagram air base, formerly the nerve centre for the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. Today, it plays the same role for the U.S. occupation. A suicide bomber attacked the base's main gate, killing 22 and hugely embarrassing Cheney. Worse, the 60-km "secure" highway between Bagram and Kabul has become so dangerous that Cheney had to fly into Kabul on a U.S. Air Force transport to meet with the American-installed figurehead leader, Hamid Karzai.
Anti-Western forces are quickly gaining ground in Afghanistan. What Washington and Ottawa keep claiming is an "anti-terrorist operation" against a handful of al-Qaida fighters and Taliban has, in fact, turned into fast-growing Afghan national resistance to foreign occupation. Were it not for the U.S. Air Force's might and ubiquitous presence, U.S., Canadian, and British troops would soon be driven from southern Afghanistan.
The fast-deteriorating situation in Afghanistan is provoking furious finger-pointing. Washington, London and Ottawa are blaming Pakistan for sheltering and abetting Taliban and its allies. Pakistan blames the feeble Karzai regime which can't control its own territory. Now, U.S intelligence reports that al-Qaida has reconstituted itself.
Cheney went on to Pakistan to threaten its military ruler, President Pervez Musharraf, with a cutoff of U.S. aid -- and perhaps much worse -- if he didn't crack down further on Pashtun tribesmen in the wild Northwest Frontier provinces who are aiding Taliban and other Pashtun and nationalist resistance groups.
The 40 million Pashtun, the world's largest tribe, have never recognized the British-drawn 1893 border between Pakistan and Afghanistan that cuts their traditional territory in two. They cross it at will and maintain close links with relatives and clansmen on the other side of the border.
In the 1980's and 90's, I explored and became fascinated by the wild, lawless, then little-known frontier tribal agencies of north and south Waziristan, Khyber, Mohmand, Orakzai and Malakand. Their warlike, fiercely independent tribes joined Pakistan in 1947 under constitutional guarantee of total autonomy that excluded government soldiers from the tribal agencies.
Intense U.S pressure forced Musharraf to violate the constitution and send troops into the tribal territories. The army shamefully launched heavy attacks, killing over 3,000 civilians. Outrage across Pakistan forced Musharraf to back down and withdraw some troops. "Fight India, not your own people," cried the press.
Most Pakistanis oppose the U.S occupation of Afghanistan, support their old ally, Taliban, and think better of Osama bin Laden than George Bush. Many senior and junior officers in Pakistan's powerful military and intelligence service, ISI, feel similarly and are furious at Musharraf for abandoning the Taliban and groups fighting to oust Indian rule in Kashmir.
Musharraf is thus caught between growing demands by Washington and his own angry people who increasingly see him as an American tool. Washington simply does not understand it has pushed the isolated, unpopular Musharraf too far already. If he is blown up or overthrown, Pakistan and its 40-60 nuclear weapons could turn into an even bigger and more dangerous hotbed of anti-western activity.
Foolish proposal
But that's just what is happening, as Washington blames its Afghanistan fiasco on whipping boy Pakistan, just as the Vietnam defeat was blamed on infiltration from Cambodia and Laos. Recently, a remarkably ill-informed defence minister foolishly proposed sending Canadian troops into Pakistan, a nation of 162 million with 619,000 very tough soldiers.
Picking a fight with old, loyal ally Pakistan is both morally wrong and fraught with untold dangers.
The U.S. has forgotten how it forced another compliant military dictator, Egypt's Anwar Sadat, into policies his people hated. He was assassinated, to national joy.
Negotiating a deal with Taliban and other Afghan resistance forces is the only way out of this morass, not expanding a war that is already lost.

http://www.torontosun.com/News/Columnists/Margolis_Eric/2007/03/04/3694599.html

And to quote a famous line from Monty Python

"Run Away! Run Away!"
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
Doryman... just be fair warned. He believes that the Bush Admin orchrestrated 9/11 and no planes smashed into anything. The WTC Towers were demolished by internal explosives, a missle hit the Pentagon, and nothing crashed into Shanksville, PA.

I believe that's what you believe I believe, however I really believe that there is not one scrap of evidence to support the conspiracy theroy of Saudi Arabians working for ALkada flying the planes that did hit the towers.Whatever crashed into the pentagon wasn't photographed and an aircraft did crash into Shanksville leaveing a debris field inconsistant with a simple crash and that's about all I believe. What am I supposed to believe?:wave:
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
4,612
63
48
Well of course Beve you're to believe that Saddam Hussein had enormous stockpiles of WMDs...

Believe.....Believe.....
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
4,612
63
48
Marionettes of the Bush administration have been declaring Pakistan as an ally and despite the fact that the Taliban has been caught time and time again enjoying relatively free access to Afghanistan through Pakistan...and Pakistan reached an "agreement"...with the Taliban....nothing remarkable has actually changed...

One of the significant difficulties in distilling the truth out of the American invasion and their role in supporting the Pakistanis government...and setting up Iraq to take the fall...after having participated in supplying Hussein with weapons and intell...is the unbridled arrogance of Americans who will tell you that you would be unwise to believe anything contradicting the "party-line" out of the Pentagon and the Whitehouse...

Americans believe everything they're told....it's what makes Americans so amusing to the rest of the world...other than their propensity to practice death and mayhem as "exporting" democracy to nations that the corporate structure of America requires....to legitimize their carnage and exploitation...
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
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I believe that's what you believe I believe, however I really believe that there is not one scrap of evidence to support the conspiracy theroy of Saudi Arabians working for ALkada flying the planes that did hit the towers.Whatever crashed into the pentagon wasn't photographed and an aircraft did crash into Shanksville leaveing a debris field inconsistant with a simple crash and that's about all I believe. What am I supposed to believe?:wave:

Saudis working for Al Queda? You mean like hired guns?

You refuse to listen to evidence because you want to believe it is something else. There are videos, admissions, documents galor. There are mountains of evidence but you WANT to believe the US Govt. did it to themselves. Isn't that right?

If not... then what?
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
Scooter Libby was found guilty of obstruction and perjory today he was Cheeeenys # one, you believe those lying bastards if you want or if you have to,and my country is run by exactly the same kind of scum, me I think for myself most of the time and if I can't I'll get drunk and think about nothin.:wave: