National Health Service bashers make me sick

[SirJosephPorter]

People in Canada are not dying on waiting lists.

Juan, if you listen to far right in USA, they are. And not only in Canada, but Britain, Australia, France, Germany, practically in every developed country (except USA of course) people are dying in the street because of lack of treatment. No doubt the extreme right thinks that the health indicators which show that Americans enjoy the poorest health of all developed nations (life expectancy, infant morality etc.) are cooked by the Communist, that it is just a Socialist, Communist propaganda.

 

[lone wolf]

Do YOU have a family doctor?

 

[#juan]

Do YOU have a family doctor?

I have my doctor and my wife has another doctor. I know that in some areas you have trouble finding a family doctor. We've talked about this before. I must be a bastard not to have a family doctor....Especially if you have kids. Our kid are grown up an married now and have kids of their own

 

[lone wolf]

In Sudbury - a city designated as a regional health care centre in Ontario, there are some thirty thousand people without a family practitioner. Right or left are only directions ... or labels so the stupid can fit people into pigeonholes. People aren't getting health care as befits an advanced nation. People ARE dying during the wait. It's about time for certain individuals to pull their heads out of their arses.

 

[#juan]

In Sudbury - a city designated as a regional health care centre in Ontario, there are some thirty thousand people without a family practitioner. Right or left are only directions ... or labels so the stupid can fit people into pigeonholes. People aren't getting health care as befits an advanced nation. People ARE dying during the wait. It's about time for certain individuals to pull their heads out of their arses.

Why are people dying? Can people not present themslves to emergency rooms to get a problem seen to? In B.C. we are training more doctors. What do you suggest?

 

[lone wolf]

Training more doctors is a long step. It is being done here too - but it's a lengthy process. There should never have been a cap placed on class sizes in the first place. Government only sees things as they are on the day they make their decisions. They have to learn how to deflection plan - aim ahead of the goal - because no population base is ever static.

How many East Indian taxi drivers are doctors who a "my buddies" community in Canada won't accept?

Why are people dying? Fourteen hour waits in ER and service to the whiniest may be good reasons....

 

[#juan]

Training more doctors is a long step. It is being done here too - but it's a lengthy process. There should never have been a cap placed on class sizes in the first place. Government only sees things as they are on the day they make their decisions. They have to learn how to deflection plan - aim ahead of the goal - because no population base is ever static.

How many East Indian taxi drivers are doctors who a "my buddies" community in Canada won't accept?

Why are people dying? Fourteen hour waits in ER and service to the whiniest may be good reasons....

Eight or nine years ago when I had my first heart attack, I went to the emergency ward. There were lots of people ahead of me....People with hangnails, a sliver. the sniffles, and all kinds of serious emergencies. I got in just after a lady with a blister on her heel.
People who tie up the emergency rooms with trivial **** ought to be arrested and fined.

 

[darkbeaver]

I believe the thrust of the SPP agreements did specify a move to north american standards modeled on the American (yankee) capitalist system, long before America has socialized medicine like Canada, we Canadians and Mexicans will be treated to the capitalist model and not just health care. Fortress North America requires standardization to American codes and regulatory bodies such as they are.
It's like talking to bricks, Americans think their doctor will be a relative of Joseph Stalin and the state will sell their babies. They think they have wonderful marvelous choice, and it is, just not for the patient whos only real choice is which capitalist pig they will select to bleed them. There's a big impenetrable wall down there made of these bricks. They're a fierce ruggedly independent patriotic bunch though. Getting screwed by the machine is their right as Americans, they love their freedom of choice, to hell with anybody else.

 

[lone wolf]

Eight or nine years ago when I had my first heart attack, I went to the emergency ward. There were lots of people ahead of me....People with hangnails, a sliver. the sniffles, and all kinds of serious emergencies. I got in just after a lady with a blister on her heel.
People who tie up the emergency rooms with trivial **** ought to be arrested and fined.

...at the very least, pay for the hospital consult.

Unfortunately, in places like Sault Ste Marie and Sturgeon Falls, the clinic IS ER ... and folks with much less fortitude (or a love for attention) keep ER tied up for petty bull****. I avoid the freak show at any cost - almost that of my own life. Funny how everything BUT my chest was sore that day.

 

[#juan]

...at the very least, pay for the hospital consult.

Unfortunately, in places like Sault Ste Marie and Sturgeon Falls, the clinic IS ER ... and folks with much less fortitude (or a love for attention) keep ER tied up for petty bull****. I avoid the freak show at any cost - almost that of my own life. Funny how everything BUT my chest was sore that day.

I had a very minor pain in the center of my chest. The weird thing was my left arm was numb up to my elbow. Oh well...:lol:

 

[ironsides]

Rampant Capitalism is also a dirty word. Why are insurance companies running your health care system?
The difference in population is merely academic. If it works for 35 million it will work for 350 million.
"Work for your needs including health care". What happens when you get sick and can no longer work? I know what happens. In the U.S., you go bankrupt, lose your house, etc.

No, you don't go bankrupt unless you have over extented yourself in the first place. We do not take care of ones financial mistakes in life. When one gets sick, first there is 'Disability Insurance" if your working and if not you can go on "Social Security Disability" which covers everyone else with Medicare, if you have any work experience in your life, and Medicaid if you don't. Children are covered.

 

[Niflmir]

Going bankrupt and losing your home might be prefferable to some people ,
than dieing on a waiting list.
Sorry Juan but no matter how you slice it the Canadian health model is not worth the paper its written on.
Ask the departing head of the CMA or the incumbent for that matter.
And if he is to right wing for you .try Debra Macphearson of the nurses union.
She is constantly on her soapbox bemoaning the working conditions of her members.Or how about the court case in Quebec were the court ruled that it is
against the charter to force people to wait for medically neccesary procedures.
Our system is seriously flawed and all you idiologs refuse to see.
But that doesn't really suprise me it is free health care afterall.But only for those
who don't pay taxes.Are you one of those?

Go crawl back in your cave, or under the bridge, or wherever. You really don't seem to know what you are talking about.

The Quebec case was a ruling that pointed out that the government cannot forbid private health care. It overturned some legislation which forbade private health care.

I use this case all the time to point out that nothing can forbid private health care in Canada, and the reason we have so little of it is because the public health care is far more cost effective.

Let me repeat: nothing forbids private health care in Canada, the reason it does not exist in plenty is because it cannot compete.

 

[lone wolf]

No, you don't go bankrupt unless you have over extented yourself in the first place. We do not take care of ones financial mistakes in life. When one gets sick, first there is 'Disability Insurance" if your working and if not you can go on "Social Security Disability" which covers everyone else with Medicare, if you have any work experience in your life, and Medicaid if you don't. Children are covered.

How long does it take to get that "Disability Insurance" to kick in? Generally, bill collectors won't wait long for their money - inducing stress - and insurance companies would rather die than part with their money. Major illness or accidents don't always wait for a convenient time to strike. It is very easy to over-extend in a long hospital stay or lots of doctor visits.

Maybe I'm too accustomed to the Ontario way where one has to prove one has no assets (house, savings etc) to be eligible for social services.

 

[ironsides]

I know I am reading articles about the worst of Canadian healthcare, but are they wrong? Why is there a waiting period of over a week or two for any kind of surgery? In the U.S. you need cosmetic surgery, you just make an appointment thru your doctor and get it. Emergency surgery is done immediately like yours without delay.


Long Waits for Health Care Plague Canada
Long Waits for Health Care Plague Canada - by Sean Parnell - Health Care News


BC Medical Association:
Waiting Too Long for Hip and Knee Surgery Costs
$10,000 Per Patient-Maximum Wait Times Should
Be No Longer Than 6 Months.

BC Medical Association: Waiting Too Long for Hip and Knee Surgery Costs $10,000 Per Patient-Maximum Wait Times Should Be No Longer Than 6 Months


Canadians star in U.S. ads attacking health care.
Canadians star in U.S. ads attacking health care


Surgical Wait Times
Surgical Wait Times



Just Say No to Universal Health Care, Yes to HSAs


Guess this is something new and scares some people. A elderly person who is on Social Security and getting Medicare does not want anyone playing with their benifits at this stage of their lives. After all they did pay all their working lives into the system.

 

[ironsides]

How long does it take to get that "Disability Insurance" to kick in? Generally, bill collectors won't wait long for their money - inducing stress - and insurance companies would rather die than part with their money. Major illness or accidents don't always wait for a convenient time to strike. It is very easy to over-extend in a long hospital stay or lots of doctor visits.

Maybe I'm too accustomed to the Ontario way where one has to prove one has no assets (house, savings etc) to be eligible for social services.

The Disability Insurance usually kicks in after two weeks, maybe a little longer, after you use your vacation time first. After that Social Security Disability kicks in. Social Security Disability has nothing to do with you being penniless, just being unable to work. When you become eligible for regular Social Security, say at 65 or what ever it is now, you can collect both S.S. and your salary if you want to stay working.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Why are people dying? Can people not present themslves to emergency rooms to get a problem seen to? In B.C. we are training more doctors. What do you suggest?

Indeed, juan. In many cities in Ontario they have walk in clinics. Anybody who doesn’t’ have a family doctor can visit one at the walk in clinic. It is not as good as having a family doctor of course. You have to see whoever is on duty and there no continuity in care by the same doctor. However, they do receive adequate treatment.

Shortage of Family physicians, while real, is not fatal. One can always go to the emergency. However, that can involve a wait of several hours. Walk in clinic is a much better alternative, and they are present in most big cities.

Oh, and I don’t believe that people are dying, I would want to see the statistics for that.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Eight or nine years ago when I had my first heart attack, I went to the emergency ward. There were lots of people ahead of me....People with hangnails, a sliver. the sniffles, and all kinds of serious emergencies. I got in just after a lady with a blister on her heel.
People who tie up the emergency rooms with trivial **** ought to be arrested and fined.

Quite right, juan. In emergency it is never first come first serve. They look at the nature of your complaint and then decide whether you should get immediate treatment.

People with hangnails, sniffles etc. will be treated in the emergency, but they may have to wait for several hours. For them walk in clinic is a much better alternative.

But those who need emergency treatment, heart attack, stroke etc. never have to wait in line, they are seen to as soon as they arrive in the emergency.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

I had a very minor pain in the center of my chest. The weird thing was my left arm was numb up to my elbow. Oh well...:lol:

I have never experienced a heart attack (I have been fortunate in enjoying almost perfect health), but I understand that is one of the surest signs (pain or numbness in the left arm) of a possible heart attack.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

No, you don't go bankrupt unless you have over extented yourself in the first place. We do not take care of ones financial mistakes in life. When one gets sick, first there is 'Disability Insurance" if your working and if not you can go on "Social Security Disability" which covers everyone else with Medicare, if you have any work experience in your life, and Medicaid if you don't. Children are covered.

That is all very well, ironsides, but the Harvard study that we discussed says that medical costs are responsible for about half the bankruptcies in USA. So medical costs (and lack of insurance or inadequate insurance) are a real problem.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Let me repeat: nothing forbids private health care in Canada, the reason it does not exist in plenty is because it cannot compete.

I have said it before, I personally wouldn’t be opposed to some private sector in involvement in health care. The question is how it is done.