N.Y. Times End of Year Editorial - Bush et. al. Fail.

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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"It was impossible to see the founding principles of the greatest democracy in the contempt these men and their bosses showed for the Constitution, the rule of law and human decency."

In the above opening paragraph of the OP we see the lie perpetuated. If we as has been the case just assume this to be the truth no change is possible. That is the great untruth that has stimyed any advancement in democracy since it's first use. The united states has never in fact been a strong democracy.
 

darkbeaver

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Jan 26, 2006
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The editors of the New York Times, that "newspaper of record" that brought us the massive fear-mongering disinformation campaign about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, has following Bhutto's assassination editorialized that the Bush administration needs to do something about Pakistan. It has, the editors declare, the "option of using American prestige and resources to fortify Pakistan's badly battered democratic institutions. . . must now call for new rules to assure a truly democratic vote"---as though the unelected U.S. president has any business telling other countries how to conduct fair elections. "The United States cannot afford to have Pakistan unravel any further American policy must now be directed at building a strong democracy in Pakistan." Is not the subtext here that if Musharraf disappoints the administration, he should lose aid, and thus have less ability to fight the bourgeoning Islamist forces in his country, producing more unraveling, thus providing a pretext for U.S. military action?
In a perhaps not unrelated development, neocon and chief Iraq War propagandist Bill Kristol has been hired by the New York Times as a columnist in 2008. He told Fox News last July, "I think the president's going to have to take military action there over [in Pakistan] in the next few weeks or months. Bush has to disrupt that [al-Qaeda] sanctuary. I think, frankly, we won't even tell Musharraf. We'll do what we have to do in Western Pakistan and Musharraf can say, 'Hey, they didn't tell me.'" Notice how he leaves the Pakistani people and their reaction to such "action"---military aggression against a sovereign state--- entirely out of the picture.
This is madness compounding madness, offered as respectable commentary in the mainstream press.
Gary Leupp is Professor of History at Tufts University, and Adjunct Professor of Comparativhttp://
 

Pangloss

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Mar 16, 2007
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The NYT has hired Kristol????

That is a bad sign (no sarcasm intended).

The US State department, notwithstanding the interference of the Bush White House, has in the past and continues to do a fair bit of quiet good in terms of helping with elections, drafting constitutions and legal codes and advocating rules for protecting civil and property rights.

They can only do this, however, when the White House is distracted. Too much attention on Pakistan now for that to happen.

Pangloss
 

TomG

Electoral Member
Oct 27, 2006
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The thread presses on, and so do I. I’ve played the fool long enough and the profit seems wearing thin. Besides, some I regard reasonably well became involved and I would not play them in my fool’s games.

The traditional role of a fool is to deliver advice to those who need to hear, but I think that in this case the fooling required needs a far better fool than I. I wish it were different and all gained profit as did I.

But, a person who chooses to advise a fool is usually trapped as Narcissi within the gaze of their own gaze. The advisor and advisee become one and the same. The one who chooses to advise a fool usually intends to attend the profit that’s already theirs. There may appear profit to be won at the expense of the fool. But the end as most already know is that a fool and his money soon parted are.
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
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TomG

Who controls the NYT and in general the entire organ that is American media?

What message delivered through any of these propaganda pipelines can be believed?


None.
 

Pangloss

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An elementary theory of media consumption (almost elementary school level) is to never rely on or believe just one source of information: this is why most ethical reporters confirm really important stories or facts through multiple sources.

If all your information comes from just one source - and it doesn't matter what it is - then you are a fool and a chump. Oh, and to drive the point home, lazy too. If you're conservative, add some liberal or progressive papers or mags to your information diet. Of course, this goes the other way too.

I'm subscribed to magazines that make me want to yell, I disagree with them so much; but that doesn't mean they have nothing important or truthful to say. Good reporting can come from anywhere.

The NYT is one source, so is the Guardian, as is The Nation or Foreign Affairs. Add the Economist and Mother Jones or This, and you're starting to develop an independent news base.

No one source is infallible, or free of bias - so try to balance them yourself.

And yeah, of course it's work.

Pangloss
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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Here's the thing though pangloss, a state organ will provide excellent reliable very tight articles in a high percentage of it's work, that supports the easy passage of rubbish, and few are the readers who will like you advised do the extra work, especially when they're used to excellence in most of the machines reporting. The problem confounds many readers even when they instinctively smell the rat, they cannot find it. What does that make the reader feel like?
 

Pangloss

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Mar 16, 2007
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DB:

What does emotion matter? We're talking about the effort required to be decently informed and to have an independance of mind - and thanks to our wealthy western society, we have libraries where this can all be done for free.

The magazine on one end of the political spectrum that enrages me ("How could they lie like this?" I might rant) is a shining beacon of truth to another. As the opposite is also the case, where do my feelings come into play?

Let's think more when we make our decisions and form our opinions, and use our biased and irrational (the very definition of irrational) feelings a little less - especially when it comes to how our actions effect others.

Pangloss
 

darkbeaver

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Jan 26, 2006
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What do you mean, what do feelings or emotion have to do with it? It's your feelings and emotions that guide you to investigate in the first place, if you only have a bunch of facts without the connecting emotions and feelings it'll be a slog to get to the heart of anything won't it? Independence of mind! Who has that, nobody I know does. Does that really exist or are you talking about something else? I mean is your mind independent from your teachers? Do you mean personal initiative? Maybe you're thinking about objective reporting, are you?
 

Pangloss

Council Member
Mar 16, 2007
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No, I'm only talking about thinking for myself, letting reason guide me, skepticism keep me on guard for BS, and letting my emotions inform my decision making process, not guide it.

If I "feel" something is wrong (an odd term, to be sure), I will investigate (gather facts) and find out if my "feelings" are in fact reflecting reality. Usually, though, it is my reason that leads me to investigate.

We now "feel" our opinions, talk about how we "feel" about evolution - all garbage language.

What would our reaction be if a judge convicted us because she or he "felt" we were guilty?

What about a surgeon feeling it was best to go after that appendix by way of the thigh?

Feelings are idiosyncratic and therefore cannot be challenged, are outside of the realm of logic, and therefore cannot be examined by anything other than more feelings.

Don't get me wrong - I'm a mushpot in real life. But not about my thinking.

What do you think, and what are your reasons? Now we have something to talk about.

Pangloss
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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No, I'm only talking about thinking for myself, letting reason guide me, skepticism keep me on guard for BS, and letting my emotions inform my decision making process, not guide it.

If I "feel" something is wrong (an odd term, to be sure), I will investigate (gather facts) and find out if my "feelings" are in fact reflecting reality. Usually, though, it is my reason that leads me to investigate.

We now "feel" our opinions, talk about how we "feel" about evolution - all garbage language.

What would our reaction be if a judge convicted us because she or he "felt" we were guilty?

What about a surgeon feeling it was best to go after that appendix by way of the thigh?

Feelings are idiosyncratic and therefore cannot be challenged, are outside of the realm of logic, and therefore cannot be examined by anything other than more feelings.

Don't get me wrong - I'm a mushpot in real life. But not about my thinking.

What do you think, and what are your reasons? Now we have something to talk about.

Pangloss

Well I see what you're saying now and understand and I agree 95%. Logic is the language of machines, I know because I'm an electomech (electrictian/mechanic) logic rules in those realms. Machines will not read your stuff, at least not in the sense that they would be able to apply reason to the words, right, so forget about logics unless you're writeing tech manuals. Any reasoning person, and most of us are to varying degrees of course, will require emotions and intuition and just plain old feelings or they can't have empathy for the characters in the story whatever it is, right. If that judge after consideration of the evidence dosn't feel I'm innocent, I'm in trouble. If the surgeon feels the thigh is the logical path to the appendix he has exercised poor reasoning and I'm in trouble again. This is fun pangloss.