My second thoughts on supply-management: subsidies are even worse.

[White_Unifier]

Supply-management does not affect me directly as a vegan shopper in Canada as far as I know. As far as I know, the Government does not subsidize milk products but rather just limits competition. This means that the buyers of milk products bear the full brunt of the cost of milk-production in Canada. If Canada should adopt the US policy of subsidizing milk products, then I would be subsidizing other people's milk purchases even though I don't buy milk products myself. looking at it from the standpoint of user-pay, supply-management far surpasses subsidies both economically and morally.

Should push come to shove, Canada should propose that the US adopt a North-American supply-management system and stop subsidizing its milk products. I'm not saying that supply-management is a good thing, but just that subsidies are even worse and I don't want us to jump from the frying pan of supply-management into the fire of subsidies.

 

[petros]

Even with supply management, dairy producers have had to find new markets or shut down.

Have you noticed all the yogurt as of late?

 

[White_Unifier]

Even with supply management, dairy producers have had to find new markets or shut down.

Have you noticed all the yogurt as of late?

I don't buy yogurt, so why should I notice? But if people aren't buying enough yogurt to consume the supply, it's not up to the government to subsidize the industry but for the farmers to shift to producing something people will actually buy. We're not the USSR here.

 

[petros]

You don't watch TV, read magazines, see bus, bench and billboards yogurt ads?

 

[White_Unifier]

You don't watch TV, read magazines, see bus, bench and billboards yogurt ads?

Online, yes.

 

[Twin_Moose]

You are subsidizing the Milk industry

 

[petros]

Walk past the dairy coolers. It's gone from a couple brands to dozens.

 

[White_Unifier]

You are subsidizing the Milk industry

Maybe I am. If we get rid of the dairy cartel, would that prompt the government to increase these subsidies even more? If so, then I'll defend the cartel as the lesser of two evils.

So before we focus on ending the dairy cartel, perhaps we should focus first on ending the subsidies. We could always deal with supply-management afterwards. Bernier might be placing the cart before the horse here.

 

[petros]

Dairy Cartel? Agropur?

 

[Hoid]

The US dairy sector has been slammed by over production.

They could sorely use some better supply management.

 

[White_Unifier]

Dairy Cartel? Agropur?

Huh?

 

[Twin_Moose]

Maybe I am. If we get rid of the dairy cartel, would that prompt the government to increase these subsidies even more? If so, then I'll defend the cartel as the lesser of two evils.

So before we focus on ending the dairy cartel, perhaps we should focus first on ending the subsidies. We could always deal with supply-management afterwards. Bernier might be placing the cart before the horse here.

They wouldn't be able to it would break the trade agreement

 

[White_Unifier]

The US dairy sector has been slammed by over production.

They could sorely use some better supply management.

From what I've read, the US subsidizes its more than Canada subsidizes its. That makes the US system even worse than Canada's. At least a Canadian can reduce the amount of his money that goes to dairy just by not buying dairy. Though he might still be giving it some corporate welfare, at least it's not to the same extreme as the American taxpayer. In that sense, the US would be better off copying our system than vice versa.

They wouldn't be able to it would break the trade agreement

Maybe. If Bernier can give me a reassurance that Canada will no longer subsidize dairy and that dropping supply-management will not lead to subsidies, I might consider him. I just want to know how he'd ensure that Canada doesn't try to replace supply management with subsidies afterwards to make things even worse than now.

 

[Twin_Moose]

Open Market like Western Farmers

 

[petros]

Huh?

Agropur. Producer owned and run dairy cooperative.

https://www.agropur.com/en

 

[Hoid]

"Open market" like pig farmers?

There's a Canadian failure story.

 

[petros]

Open Market like Western Farmers

He has troubles with simplistic concepts.

"Open market" like pig farmers?

There's a Canadian failure story.

Cutting off the Soviet scumbags killed the pork industry.

From what I've read, the US subsidizes its more than Canada subsidizes its. That makes the US system even worse than Canada's. At least a Canadian can reduce the amount of his money that goes to dairy just by not buying dairy. Though he might still be giving it some corporate welfare, at least it's not to the same extreme as the American taxpayer. In that sense, the US would be better off copying our system than vice versa.



Maybe. If Bernier can give me a reassurance that Canada will no longer subsidize dairy and that dropping supply-management will not lead to subsidies, I might consider him. I just want to know how he'd ensure that Canada doesn't try to replace supply management with subsidies afterwards to make things even worse than now.

https://www.dairyfarmers.ca/what-we-do/supply-management/the-facts

 

[Twin_Moose]

"Open market" like pig farmers?

There's a Canadian failure story.

Yep the market bounced back this summer highest prices they seen in 15 years

 

[petros]

Yep the market bounced back this summer highest prices they seen in 15 years

Bacon is waaaaaaaaay overpriced and if I'm buying ribs, I buy Chilean baby back ribs from Real Canadian Wholesale. $2.50-$8 a rack.

 

[White_Unifier]

He has troubles with simplistic concepts.



Cutting off the Soviet scumbags killed the pork industry.



https://www.dairyfarmers.ca/what-we-do/supply-management/the-facts

If it's a choice between me being forced to subsidize milk production through my taxes whether I buy milk or not or just paying more for the milk I buy, I'd rather the latter option. If the US wants to join a North-American supply-management system, by all means, but I won't support dismantling supply-management without a guarantee that tax subsidies to milk production won't replace it.

Bacon is waaaaaaaaay overpriced and if I'm buying ribs, I buy Chilean baby back ribs from Real Canadian Wholesale. $2.50-$8 a rack.

That's another thing. However much I dislike the idea of supply-management, I'd rather the government expand it to all animal-husbandry if that means an end to subsidies. At least that way, the buyer pays for it himself.