My new Native hero, Chief Clarence Louie.

Johnnny

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Dont most bands offer their own people the chance to go to school with the bands money? Im sure the band could afford to educate their own people, especially since the victor diamond mine has been putting alot of money in the area....

If the mine is forced to train the locals, some deposits may become uneconimcal..... And depending on the market its a make or break
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
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Machjo, how much does DeBeers already GIVE to them annually? Do you think they don't offer scholarships already? What is DeBeers HR policy on hiring? Is it locals first then import from the south?

Look into it yourself. Better yet, skip the interweb and phone them. They pay people to sit around answering questions just like yours.

Give them a dingle and tell us what you've learned.
 
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taxslave

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Well, actually, we descendants of europeans are more eastern than you are! North America is West of Europe.

To be fair though, in comparison to Attawapiskat, what is the quality of the land that reserve is sitting on? Fertile? is it large? Is it near an urban area or other population centre? How is the regional economy outside the reserve surrounding it? Etc.

For instance, there is a diamond mine near Attawapiskat, but it's off reserve. Some in Attawapiskat would likely fear a certain assimilation with all us Southerners dominating the work environment.

If we look at Quebec's Bill 101, while I think it's extreme and don't necessarily support it, there is no denying that it did help get french-speakers into upper management positions in Montreal where before it was English-dominated.

Let's say, hypothetically speaking, that we made it law that the diamond mine had to adopt cree as its official language of administration by a specified time. Suddenly, the mine would have to start training Cree-speakers for the positions, or alternatively teach Cree to management. Either way it would create jobs for the cree either as teachers or as miners or mine administrators. This woudl help to bridge the gap at least somewhat between the culture preservation and skills. It worked in Quebec! Why not around Attawapiskat?

That is one of the dumbest ides I have heard in a long long time. Like Quebecs language law you will be setting businesses up to fail. Same with the feds mandate to make ethnic minorities representative in the public workforce. All positions must be based on MERIT, not on some touchy feely PC thing. This is a major reason why there is so much poor management in governments. The people who are put in positions of power are there because they fit some silly guideline, not because they are capable of doing the job.

Dont most bands offer their own people the chance to go to school with the bands money? Im sure the band could afford to educate their own people, especially since the victor diamond mine has been putting alot of money in the area....

If the mine is forced to train the locals, some deposits may become uneconimcal..... And depending on the market its a make or break

All status band members are eligible for a free education courtesy of the taxpayer. Bear could tell you if there is any special criteria.
 

Machjo

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Oct 19, 2004
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Also, if you consider that higher education is free for at least some indigenous people, this part might in fact not be out of the mine's pocket. The mine might just have an incentive to provide adequate funding for the Attawapiskat elementary and secondary school to ensure the children get the qualificaitons to go on to university.

Also, non-natives living in the region might take up an interest in Cree instead of French as a second language for the new job opportunities, thus creating more jobs for Cree-speakers. And since a cree teacher is no more expensive than a french teacher, that would not cost the taxpayer any extra. Plus it would promote better understanding between the two groups.

Dont most bands offer their own people the chance to go to school with the bands money? Im sure the band could afford to educate their own people, especially since the victor diamond mine has been putting alot of money in the area....

If the mine is forced to train the locals, some deposits may become uneconimcal..... And depending on the market its a make or break

If that's the case, then they won't even need to train them. Such a policy would just automatically give the Cree-speakers hiring priority for the most part.

That is one of the dumbest ides I have heard in a long long time. Like Quebecs language law you will be setting businesses up to fail. Same with the feds mandate to make ethnic minorities representative in the public workforce. All positions must be based on MERIT, not on some touchy feely PC thing. This is a major reason why there is so much poor management in governments. The people who are put in positions of power are there because they fit some silly guideline, not because they are capable of doing the job.
QUOTE]

It would be based on merit. You'd have to know the language to understand your co-workers.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Also, if you consider that higher education is free for at least some indigenous people, this part might in fact not be out of the mine's pocket. The mine might just have an incentive to provide adequate funding for the Attawapiskat elementary and secondary school to ensure the children get the qualificaitons to go on to university.

Also, non-natives living in the region might take up an interest in Cree instead of French as a second language for the new job opportunities, thus creating more jobs for Cree-speakers. And since a cree teacher is no more expensive than a french teacher, that would not cost the taxpayer any extra. Plus it would promote better understanding between the two groups.

What type of grades and pre-reqs do you need to get into earth sciences?

It would be based on merit. You'd have to know the language to understand your co-workers.
B U L L S H I T!!! Dene people have no issues working for mining companies without learning English. How? Why? What makes it work? People in Attawapiskat can watch TV in english. Do you know why? They speak, read and write english.
 

Machjo

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What type of grades and pre-reqs do you need to get into earth sciences?


B U L L S H I T!!! Dene people have no issues working for mining companies without learning English. How? Why? What makes it work? People in Attawapiskat can watch TV in english. Do you know why? They speak, read and write english.

Fairly high I'd imagine. So what's the point. if given a chance, a Cree couldn't learn that?

B U L L S H I T!!! Dene people have no issues working for mining companies without learning English. How? Why? What makes it work? People in Attawapiskat can watch TV in english. Do you know why? They speak, read and write english.

You missed my point. Of course they know English. But many are struggling to maintain their languages. They're essentially forced into a tough choice, to assimilate into the English community or isolate themselves in poverty. By giving their language some economic clout, we'd be eliminating their having to make the difficult choice thus giving them a chance to work and still maintain their language and culture. After all, if we want to maintain our languages, we can work almost anywhere. And them? We've taken all their resources away from them.
 

petros

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Fairly high I'd imagine. So what's the point. if given a chance, a Cree couldn't learn that?



You missed my point. Of course they know English. But many are struggling to maintain their languages. They're essentially forced into a tough choice, to assimilate into the English community or isolate themselves in poverty. By giving their language some economic clout, we'd be eliminating their having to make the difficult choice thus giving them a chance to work and still maintain their language and culture. After all, if we want to maintain our languages, we can work almost anywhere. And them? We've taken all their resources away from them.
Forced? My azz it's forced. Get real. Have you bothered to check their school curriculum? We have Cree and Ojib in the classroom here in Regina. If i wanted to learn Cree I could. It's close enough to my house I could walk there just wearing a hoodie in 40 below.
 

Machjo

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Forced? My azz it's forced. Get real. Have you bothered to check their school curriculum? We have Cree and Ojib in the classroom here in Regina. If i wanted to learn Cree I could. It's close enough to my house I could walk there just wearing a hoodie in 40 below.

You don't maintain a language in a classroom like a museum piece. You maintain it by making it a part of the life of the community, and that includes economic activity.
 

petros

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You don't maintain a language in a classroom like a museum piece. You maintain it by making it a part of the life of the community, and that includes economic activity.
It is part of the community here. Just beacause you've never seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Don't be a weenuk.
 

captain morgan

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Fairly high I'd imagine. So what's the point. if given a chance, a Cree couldn't learn that?



You missed my point. Of course they know English. But many are struggling to maintain their languages. They're essentially forced into a tough choice, to assimilate into the English community or isolate themselves in poverty. By giving their language some economic clout, we'd be eliminating their having to make the difficult choice thus giving them a chance to work and still maintain their language and culture. After all, if we want to maintain our languages, we can work almost anywhere. And them? We've taken all their resources away from them.

You sure do like to complicate things.

Preservation of one's culture is the sole responsibility of those that have the interest. Germans, Ukrainians, Chinese and Middle Easterners (of all stripes) manage to preserve and grow their culture here in Canada without the intervention of the Federal gvt, why should the Cree (or French for that matter) be any different.

Lastly, this BS about taking their resources is a non-starter. As per your recognition that the DeBeers mine is far outside the Attawapiskat lands, one can argue that the company is going out of it's way to include FN's in the region. For those that do have resources on their lands, take a look at the efforts that corps make to build schools, build/maintain roads, provide employment and pay-out the FNs either in cash of royalties.
 

Machjo

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It is part of the community here. Just beacause you've never seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

You're saying they can live in their language, meaning work in it, get government services in it, do business in it, etc. all in their own language, off reserve?
 

captain morgan

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You don't maintain a language in a classroom like a museum piece. You maintain it by making it a part of the life of the community, and that includes economic activity.


The population of Richmond BC is well in excess of 50% Chinese descent.

Hey, I got an idea! Let's get the Fed gvt to mandate that all business in Richmond be conducted in Mandarin... Or is that Schezuan or maybe Cantonese?.. Dongkou? Huaining? Jiangxi?

Gosh, the list is long... Oh well, we must legislate the preservation of their language and culture.... This looks like it's gonna get real complicated real quick
 

Machjo

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You sure do like to complicate things.

Preservation of one's culture is the sole responsibility of those that have the interest. Germans, Ukrainians, Chinese and Middle Easterners (of all stripes) manage to preserve and grow their culture here in Canada without the intervention of the Federal gvt, why should the Cree (or French for that matter) be any different.

There is a significant difference. The chinese, germans, etc. can also enjoy imported litterature, films, etc. from their home nations. The cree have only reserves to build on.

Lastly, this BS about taking their resources is a non-starter. As per your recognition that the DeBeers mine is far outside the Attawapiskat lands, one can argue that the company is going out of it's way to include FN's in the region. For those that do have resources on their lands, take a look at the efforts that corps make to build schools, build/maintain roads, provide employment and pay-out the FNs either in cash of royalties.

How do you define 'lands'? You realise that downtown Ottawa is Algonquin land, right?

And as for having only reserves to build on culturally, that's not because fo the free market, but because of land grabs.

The population of Richmond BC is well in excess of 50% Chinese descent.

Hey, I got an idea! Let's get the Fed gvt to mandate that all business in Richmond be conducted in Mandarin... Or is that Schezuan or maybe Cantonese?.. Dongkou? Huaining? Jiangxi?

Gosh, the list is long... Oh well, we must legislate the preservation of their language and culture.... This looks like it's gonna get real complicated real quick

Again you're missing the point. The Chinese etc. can always go back to their home countries to preserve their coultures. Where can the Cree go? Add to that that even those Chinese who stay here are significantly supported by the Chinese book, film, and other markets.
 

captain morgan

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There is a significant difference. The chinese, germans, etc. can also enjoy imported litterature, films, etc. from their home nations. The cree have only reserves to build on.

.. The Cree are prohibited from learning and celebrating their culture? How exactly? Armed guards that shoot to kill anyone that utters something in Cree?


How do you define 'lands'? You realise that downtown Ottawa is Algonquin land, right?

Define the Treaties

And as for having only reserves to build on culturally, that's not because fo the free market, but because of land grabs.

Ahhh... So it's capitalism that prevents the Cree from learning their native language and understanding their history and culture.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
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How do you define 'lands'? You realise that downtown Ottawa is Algonquin land, right?
You really really really need to read the Treaties. I bet you think Treaties were forced on Natives. Did you know they were ASKED FOR?
 

captain morgan

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Again you're missing the point. The Chinese etc. can always go back to their home countries to preserve their coultures. Where can the Cree go? Add to that that even those Chinese who stay here are significantly supported by the Chinese book, film, and other markets.

Where can they go?.. Really?

Are you somehow under the impression that Cree culture can only be practiced in one specific location?.. Impossible to teach and celebrate in someone's home? Taught by parents to their children?

Man, you sure do have some kinda high regard for Nanny-Statism and the omnipotent goodness of gvt legislation
 

captain morgan

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I wonder which version of Cree he expects us all to know?


Legislate all dialects.. That's only fair.

And just so everything is all equal-like; perhaps we can legislate that all business in Canada be transacted by those with at least a little Cree blood in them. The Feds can mandate a program of Cree blood transfusions to any people for economic and cultural preservation purposes.