Mountie who witnessed bus beheading dies by suicide

[Sal]

Soldiers from WWII were overseas for longer periods and they didn't
suffer the same that we know of. That we know of might be the key.
maybe they did suffer the same but coped much better. If that is the
case, and this is only a question, How or what are we missing in training
preparing these people for such horrific scenes.
Something has changed and we have to find out what that something is.

They had each other...they were not isolated and society was quietly forgiving.

Yes they did suffer from it...I didn't know that until I was around 20 and laying out in my tiny bikini sunning in the back yard...that almost always used to bring the old guy over the back fence outside to have a beer. It was a sunny hot summer, I was out a lot, he drank a lot of beer. He was in the navy I remember his tats...we got talking, we talked frequently. I am not a chatter so it got real fast. The war had been over for 20 years and he had never slept through a night since. Night terrors.

I was horrified. Started talking to my mum about my grandfather who was in WWl...same thing.

So I started talking about it a lot with a lot of people. I also worked for the liquor board later which gave me a wealth of people to question since most of them were all old vets.

They were heavy, heavy drinkers and they gathered at the Legion almost daily. They worked for the CNR and the liquor board...the rate of alcoholism was over the top. We all turned a blind eye to it and we let them be. We forgave the absences because in our heart we knew they had seen unspeakable things, done unspeakable things...and we let them have each other and we let them drink.

Having others who don't mock you, who don't judge you, who look at you and see your wounds and then have a drink and let you go home to your family...that got them through.

That's what I concluded.

They see more violence and bloodshed that many Canadian soldiers too.

This guy would be no good as a soldier if he kills himself after seeing someone get decapitated.

Yes, it triggered some unhealed wound and he didn't know how to live with it.

 

[Twila]

Unfortunately I think there is a fundamental switch in peoples minds
News people who covered Vietnam or D Day and Stalingrad they
didn't suffer the same thing and they were in many cases front line
with the troops or behind the lines
Soldiers from WWII were overseas for longer periods and they didn't
suffer the same that we know of. That we know of might be the key.
maybe they did suffer the same but coped much better. If that is the
case, and this is only a question, How or what are we missing in training
preparing these people for such horrific scenes.
Something has changed and we have to find out what that something is.

I think you're right. Learning the why's and how's could be used in so many fields different fields. Instead of relying on a pill a day to cope, we'd know how to permanently fix the brain.

It would be useful with vets, police, children in school. We could avoid medicating the general population into compliance and instead of getting by, they could flourish and succeed.

A change in mindset would be required. The belief that "since I can do it, others should be able to" would definatley have to change.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

They had each other...they were not isolated and society was quietly forgiving.

Yes they did suffer from it...I didn't know that until I was around 20 and laying out in my tiny bikini sunning in the back yard...that almost always used to bring the old guy over the back fence outside to have a beer. It was a sunny hot summer, I was out a lot, he drank a lot of beer. He was in the navy I remember his tats...we got talking, we talked frequently. I am not a chatter so it got real fast. The war had been over for 20 years and he had never slept through a night since. Night terrors.

I was horrified. Started talking to my mum about my grandfather who was in WWl...same thing.

So I started talking about it a lot with a lot of people. I also worked for the liquor board later which gave me a wealth of people to question since most of them were all old vets.

They were heavy, heavy drinkers and they gathered at the Legion almost daily. They worked for the CNR and the liquor board...the rate of alcoholism was over the top. We all turned a blind eye to it and we let them be. We forgave the absences because in our heart we knew they had seen unspeakable things, done unspeakable things...and we let them have each other and we let them drink.

Having others who don't mock you, who don't judge you, who look at you and see your wounds and then have a drink and let you go home to your family...that got them through.

That's what I concluded.


Yes, it triggered some unhealed wound and he didn't know how to live with it.

When I was a kid, there weren't no Indians crazier'n the ones who served in WWII and Korea. Later, Vietnam. Everybody and his cousin has stories of cold, detached fathers in the 50s and 60s. That was also the era of the three-martini lunch. As you say, Sal, their alcohol consumption was epic by today's standards.

I wonder how much of the model of "normal" manhood that developed when we were kids was the result of repressed PTSD.

 

[Sal]

When I was a kid, there weren't no Indians crazier'n the ones who served in WWII and Korea. Later, Vietnam. Everybody and his cousin has stories of cold, detached fathers in the 50s and 60s. That was also the era of the three-martini lunch. As you say, Sal, their alcohol consumption was epic by today's standards.

I wonder how much of the model of "normal" manhood that developed when we were kids was the result of repressed PTSD.

Absolutely.

Be tough, suck it up, defend yourself.

We know we have to remove soldiers after 30 to 60 days of combat...those poor fukers...five years.

And WWl in mud and blood and guts...can't come back from that...and they didn't, not really.

 

[petros]

Unfortunately I think there is a fundamental switch in peoples minds
News people who covered Vietnam or D Day and Stalingrad they
didn't suffer the same thing and they were in many cases front line
with the troops or behind the lines
Soldiers from WWII were overseas for longer periods and they didn't
suffer the same that we know of. That we know of might be the key.
maybe they did suffer the same but coped much better. If that is the
case, and this is only a question, How or what are we missing in training
preparing these people for such horrific scenes.
Something has changed and we have to find out what that something is.

Shell shock. There is nothing new about it.

 

[Twila]

Shell shock. There is nothing new about it.

George Carlin on Shell shock

George Carlin Shell Shock - YouTube

 

[Sal]

George Carlin on Shell shock

says it exactly like it is

he was brilliantly funny

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Absolutely.

Be tough, suck it up, defend yourself.

We know we have to remove soldiers after 30 to 60 days of combat...those poor fukers...five years.

And WWl in mud and blood and guts...can't come back from that...and they didn't, not really.

Had a girlfriend whose father was a German-American from Wisconsin, son of immigrants. His whole unit (12th Armored) was from Wisconsin. Half of 'em spoke German. He was a plasterer in Wisconsin. His father was a plasterer in Wurzburg. When his unit invaded Wurzburg, with him at the controls of a tank, he said the second weirdest thing was knowing he was blasting buildings his father had plastered.

The weirdest thing was most of the guys in his unit knowing that somewhere out there were their cousins in grey uniforms.

PTSD? Hell, more like an LSD trip.

 

[Sal]

Had a girlfriend whose father was a German-American from Wisconsin, son of immigrants. His whole unit (12th Armored) was from Wisconsin. Half of 'em spoke German. He was a plasterer in Wisconsin. His father was a plasterer in Wurzburg. When his unit invaded Wurzburg, with him at the controls of a tank, he said the second weirdest thing was knowing he was blasting buildings his father had plastered.

The weirdest thing was most of the guys in his unit knowing that somewhere out there were their cousins in grey uniforms.

PTSD? Hell, more like an LSD trip.

it's almost incomprehensible to have families on both sides, not uncommon though

brain scramble

 

[shadowshiv]

And to add to the sadness of all this, is that it is just a matter of time before the murderer will be free to roam the streets again and decide (once again) to not take his meds as he "doesn't need them". I wonder what he'll do then?

As for the poor Mountie that witnessed the horrific act, I don't think he was weak at all (like he thought). How would any of us respond to seeing something as horrifying and shocking as that? Would any of us really ever be the same after that? May he rest in peace.

 

[petros]

Dollars to donuts says the fear of what he did last time is enough to keep him on them.

If you snapped back into reality and found out you killed someone would you take your meds no matter what?

How many drunks has that happened to and no longer drink because of what happened in a blackout?

 

[shadowshiv]

Dollars to donuts says the fear of what he did last time is enough to keep him on them.

If you snapped back into reality and found out you killed someone would you take your meds no matter what?

How many drunks has that happened to and no longer drink because of what happened in a blackout?

I guess we'll just have to wait and see.