Mountain Goat Killed for Defending Territory

[bill barilko]

The Goat was defending his territory nothing more



Mountain goat 'kills hiker' in Olympic National Park

Mountain goats usually stand about 3ft (0.9m) tall at the shoulder and can weigh up to 300lbs (136kg)

A hiker has died after being attacked by a mountain goat in the US state of Washington, officials have said.

Robert Boardman was gored in the leg by the goat while out walking on Saturday with his wife and a friend on Klahhane Ridge in Olympic National Park.

The 63-year-old was transported by US Coast Guard helicopter to a hospital in Port Angeles, where he was pronounced dead.

Rangers later killed the goat, which was known for its aggressive behaviour.

Barb Maynes, park spokeswoman, told the Peninsula Daily News that in the past rangers had tried "hazing" the ram - inducing it to be frightened of people - by shooting it with bean bags and throwing rocks.

But there had been no reports of any incidents which would have warranted killing the goat, she added.

Witnesses said Mr Boardman, his wife and friend had stopped for lunch on Klahhane Ridge when the ram appeared and moved towards them.

Mr Boardman tried to shoo the animal away but it instead attacked him. After goring the hiker the goat stood over him, and had to be pelted with rocks by a ranger before finally moving away.

Some 300 mountain goats live in Olympic National Park. Found only in North America, they usually stand about 3ft (0.9m) at the shoulder and can weigh up to 300lbs (136kg).

 

[talloola]

This particular goat obviously wasn't the 'norm' for it's species, and had a reputation, so this
recent act of agression was the last chance for this goat.

Thes people didn't seem to be doing anything to frighten or threaten the goat
in any way, the goat was not defending himself, he was the agressor, something
that is unusual for goats.

I don't disagree with their decision to 'put the goat down', as he probably would have done this
again, it seemed he was a real 'grump'.

 

[Cliffy]

Sounds like the rangers that were hazing it are to blame for his aggressive behaviour. I used to raise goats and making aggressive movements toward them are seen as a challenge and rams love being challenged. To them it is sport. You could whack one of those guys over the head with a 2X4 and he would think you were just playing. That ram didn't gore the man on purpose. He expected the man to butt heads with him. Unfortunately, the outcome would have been the same but the goat didn't know that.

 

[talloola]

Sounds like the rangers that were hazing it are to blame for his aggressive behaviour. I used to raise goats and making aggressive movements toward them are seen as a challenge and rams love being challenged. To them it is sport. You could whack one of those guys over the head with a 2X4 and he would think you were just playing. That ram didn't gore the man on purpose. He expected the man to butt heads with him. Unfortunately, the outcome would have been the same but the goat didn't know that.

this goat had a reputation, not the first problem with him
the goat was standing over the injured man, of course the rangers
had to be agressive to make him move, people aren't to blame for
everything concerning confrontations with animals, some animals are
a bit 'roagish' compared to all of their own species, and become dangerous.

 

[Cliffy]

this goat had a reputation, not the first problem with him
the goat was standing over the injured man, of course the rangers
had to be agressive to make him move, people aren't to blame for
everything concerning confrontations with animals, some animals are
a bit 'roagish' compared to all of their own species, and become dangerous.

Kinda like some humans.

 

[talloola]

Kinda like some humans.

thats right

 

[Praxius]

"But there had been no reports of any incidents which would have warranted killing the goat, she added."

^ Funny.... one would think the goat being responsible for the death of a person would be warrant enough. When would it be justified? When the goat finally goes after someone's child and injures or shoves the kid down a ledge?

Any time an animal of any kind begins to attack humans on a regular basis and poses a risk to others, that's generally the time that animal is taken out.

If a bear, coyote, wolf, rabid raccoon, moose, mountain lion, dog or whatever starts to attack humans and especially when one of their attacks causes the death of a human, is the first sign to take that animal out.

Call it protection of our fellow man, call it keeping ourselves on the top of the food chain, but regardless of how one feels about human interference or humans killing animals, even ones just protecting their territory, it's a normal practice in our societies to remove threats..... and just because this was a mountain goat and not some blood thirsty predator, doesn't excuse it from continuing to attack and harm/kill people.

Besides, I find the whole "Human Interference" argument a tad silly since it's a tad contradictory to claim "Interference" when we're just as much a part of nature as any other animal..... what we do and how we act are directly a part of our nature.

 

[karrie]

I read hubby this article, and his response was scorn.

"We go out into nature, and kill any of nature that is following the path natural selection lays out. Mountain goats are SUPPOSED to be territorial. They fight stuff that comes into their territory all the time. That's the male that passes on its genes. But no, instead we kill off the aggressive territorial male. In 50 years, when the population of mountain goats starts to crumble to inferior genetics, we'll be sitting here trying to figure out why."

 

[petros]

Would neutering the goat and returning it to the wild have been the answer?

 

[talloola]

I read hubby this article, and his response was scorn.

"We go out into nature, and kill any of nature that is following the path natural selection lays out. Mountain goats are SUPPOSED to be territorial. They fight stuff that comes into their territory all the time. That's the male that passes on its genes. But no, instead we kill off the aggressive territorial male. In 50 years, when the population of mountain goats starts to crumble to inferior genetics, we'll be sitting here trying to figure out why."

it was only one cranky goat, not the whole of the species, and that particular goat has been getting
himself into trouble on other occasions, and in my lifetime we have shared this earth with mountain
goats just fine, until this miserable one decided he was going to act like a possessive human, and not
share anything with anyone, sometimes the tides turn.

I don't see it as a big problem at all, and I believe life will go on with mountain goats just fine.

 

[CUBert]

I don't know if I agree with killing an animal because someone was stupid or ignorant enough to go into their territory.
Timothy Treadwell is a good example of someone who was exceptionally idiotic. He would literally sleep out in the wilderness with these bears for over a year. Eventually, and predictably, he was eaten by one.
They looked for the bear so they could kill it, whether they ever found it I'm not certain. But could you really blame the animal? Treadwell was mentally ill.

 

[Praxius]

Would neutering the goat and returning it to the wild have been the answer?

I don't see how that would reduce its territorial behavior.... I'd suspect lopping off his nards would have just made him more pissed off. :lol:

it was only one cranky goat, not the whole of the species, and that particular goat has been getting
himself into trouble on other occasions, and in my lifetime we have shared this earth with mountain
goats just fine, until this miserable one decided he was going to act like a possessive human, and not
share anything with anyone, sometimes the tides turn.

I don't see it as a big problem at all, and I believe life will go on with mountain goats just fine.

Indeed... most mountain goats, regardless of how territorial they are, very rarely reach such a level of aggression as what this one did and I don't foresee hoards of humans flocking to the mountains to cull thousands of blood thirsty mountain goats.

I see this situation similar to a human trait:

You got your normal mountain goats who are territorial and might get in your face or try and stand you down, but are harmless for the most part..... and then you have the a-typical mountain goat who goes beyond normal response, full-out attacks anything it doesn't like, and in this case, ended up killing someone.

It's similar to how most humans when drunk are just annoying and a lot of hot air.... but every so often, you get the one asshat who purposely gets into everybody's face, constantly trying to pick fights and show off as if it's their given right to be a total d*ck........ if that idiot is continually left alone and allowed to continue his antics regardless of how much of a threat he is to those around him, somebody's going to get seriously injured or killed, thus something needs to be done to that one bad example.

In regards to animals in cases like this, they're usually either relocated or they're removed from the equation altogether.

Just because the greater majority of a particular population is harmless and pose no risk, doesn't mean we should allow the couple of bad apples in the group to get away with whatever they please and therefore allowed to escalate their aggression.

This goat clearly had a history of aggression and attacking people and a number of tactics were used to try and change his ways and nothing was done until he finally ended up killing someone, intentionally or not is irrelevant..... it was high time someone got his goat.

Should have been done sooner if you ask me..... sooner as in before he killed someone.

Some here might claim it was the fault of the 63 year old man for simply being in the park in the first place..... yet would those same people feel the same way if it was someone's 4 year old kid that was gorged and killed, even though the parent(s) actually tried to fend it off?

As I see it, the whole argument of the 63 year old being in his territory, thus it being his own fault is a tad baseless and contradictory. That goat only had territory there in the first place because Humans made that area a National Park.... which is still technically territory of humans designated for being a safe environment for animals so those animals can have and maintain a territory in the first place...... at the same time those animals are given area to actually have territory and an area free of humans hunting and killing them, it's still a National Park designated for us humans to venture into and explore..... thus that 63 year old man had every right to be where he was when he was attacked and had more right to be there then the animal in question.

Humans could have designated that area not as a National Park, but a designated hunting area..... or turned it all into an industrial park.... or a suburban hell hole.... or a strip mine..... or a waste dump.

But we didn't..... it's a national park for those animals to live and thrive in..... and for us to visit and venture through.

My point is that for those who dub this situation as mere human influence and thus the fault of the human, keep in mind that these animals exist there directly because of human influence in the first place. No matter how hard one tries to create a line between Human life and nature..... the fact remains that human life is directly intertwined with nature.

When any other pack of living creatures has one or more of their family threatened by another animal, that pack will do what it needs to in order to ensure the safety and security of that pack....... us going out there and shooting this goat because it was responsible for killing the 63 year old and was also responsible for a number of attacks in the past, is a direct relation to this pack mentality that exists through many animal species of this planet.... including us.

 

[Johnnny]

How many people have actually seen or encountered a mountain goat in real life? Ive seen one once, in the coastal mountains north of Kitsault but that doesnt make me an expert on their behaviour

 

[Praxius]

How many people have actually seen or encountered a mountain goat in real life? Ive seen one once, in the coastal mountains north of Kitsault but that doesnt make me an expert on their behaviour

I'm curious and don't mean any offense..... but what's your point?

 

[talloola]

I don't know if I agree with killing an animal because someone was stupid or ignorant enough to go into their territory.
Timothy Treadwell is a good example of someone who was exceptionally idiotic. He would literally sleep out in the wilderness with these bears for over a year. Eventually, and predictably, he was eaten by one.
They looked for the bear so they could kill it, whether they ever found it I'm not certain. But could you really blame the animal? Treadwell was mentally ill.

I agree with you concerning the guy with the bears, but not about the goat situation. Goats come into
people territory quite often, or very close to towns etc., my recent stay in jasper proves this, as
I saw them, and took pictures.

Of course people have to respect them, just as they have to respect and keep their distance from us,
but this particular goat didn't fit in, just as that man didn't fit in with those bears.
We shouldn't blow this situation up and confuse it with the guy with the bears, not even close.

 

[CUBert]

I agree with you concerning the guy with the bears, but not about the goat situation. Goats come into
people territory quite often, or very close to towns etc., my recent stay in jasper proves this, as
I saw them, and took pictures.

Of course people have to respect them, just as they have to respect and keep their distance from us,
but this particular goat didn't fit in, just as that man didn't fit in with those bears.
We shouldn't blow this situation up and confuse it with the guy with the bears, not even close.

You're probably right, I didn't read much into the goat story , as I should have before I posted.
I do know that many times animals get killed basically because of a person's stupid actions, which doesn't seem right to me.

 

[talloola]

You're probably right, I didn't read much into the goat story , as I should have before I posted.
I do know that many times animals get killed basically because of a person's stupid actions, which doesn't seem right to me.

Yeah, sad things do happen. We have had a few bears in this general area, who decide they want to visit
yards, dumpsters and school grounds.

Sometimes they are killed, not sure why they 'all' aren't relocated.

My daughter operates a cottage rental on the west coast of the island, and bears are often wandering around
her property. They have locked their dumpster, so they can't get in there any more, although we saw
one bear who literally had a huge temper tamtrum trying to get the lock off. When bears lose it, they
go crazy.

My daughter goes from cottage to cottage to clean and prepare cottages for new guests, and sometimes
the bears are not far from her. She does make noise when leaving her house to walk elsewhere, so they
will know she is close by, and has
never had a problem with them. She said she has worked in a cottage with a couple of bears lounging
around the yard just outside, she shook rugs over the railing, while they were there, but they don't
seem to care.

She is very protective of the bears, doesn't want them hurt, and she doesn't do anything stupid, like
feed them or walk toward them.

They dissapear for weeks at a time, then appear again. her property backs on a large forested area,
where the bears go into each day, and reside, but seem to enjoy hanging around, and the cottage guests
think it is marvelous, as many of them have never seen a bear.

Hmmmm, I wonder.

I feel nervous for her, but I'll have to live with that I guess.

 

[bill barilko]

Y'know I posted this as a joke-I forgot about how chronically pedantic the tone on this forum is at times.

Ah well.........

 

[petros]

It's a rough life for goats the world over....

Microlender Forecloses On Goat

SAN FRANCISCO—Representatives from One World Finance, a U.S.-based microcredit provider, confirmed Monday that they had initiated foreclosure proceedings on a goat in southern India following a borrower's repeated failure to make her $2.20 monthly loan payments. "I tried to work with Ms. [Subha] Thangam on this, but once she fell a full $6.10 behind, I had to repossess the goat," said loan officer Michael Conrad, who stated that he was just doing his job and that it was "not [his] fault" if certain subsistence farmers were living beyond their means. "I'd love to recoup the entire $22 loan at auction, but given the glut of foreclosed and abandoned goats in the area, I'd be lucky to get even half that." Conrad also acknowledged that the owner had left the goat in "pretty bad shape" and had even stripped it of its hair for potential resale on the paintbrush market.

 

[Ariadne]

We've got a two parties that want to claim the same territory. It was well known that the goat had claimed the territory, and that the goat was too stupid to negotiate. The humans also claimed the territory, and should not be too stupid to follow warning signs to stay away from the goat's territory. For some reason, the humans are not that smart after all, and decided to just shoot the goat, and blame the goat.

Well done.