Migrant Caravan

The_Foxer

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And flooding has been happening every winter , nothing new .
Entirely new. Buildings which have been standing for 20 years are running into this kind of thing for the first time. But hey - don't let facts or truth slow you down. You do you. :)
 

pgs

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Entirely new. Buildings which have been standing for 20 years are running into this kind of thing for the first time. But hey - don't let facts or truth slow you down. You do you. :)
Because of growing populations and lack of infrastructure upgrades . We in the lower mainland have always lived with variable weather and the resulting chaos .Heavy snow is nothing unusual , cold snaps are nothing new , burst pipes in winter have always caused problems , nothing happening today has not happened before .
 

The_Foxer

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Because of growing populations and lack of infrastructure upgrades . We in the lower mainland have always lived with variable weather and the resulting chaos .Heavy snow is nothing unusual , cold snaps are nothing new , burst pipes in winter have always caused problems , nothing happening today has not happened before .
Ahhh, no. The size of the population does not have any impact on whether or not there's freezing rain or snow. It doesn't change the temperature. And you would only NEED "upgrades" if something had changed. So what you're saying is something has changed.

Sorry, this is new. And it's new in a weird way, its not just a case of 'more' snow or cold, but it's the combination of deep cold followed by heavy rain and very warm temps. Weirdly our winter this year has been pretty warm, not crazy warm but certainly on the warmer side. And we've always had arctic outflows that drop the temperature and give us snow for a few days, then it goes away and we're back to normal. But that used to mean we'd go from like 4 or 5 above down to minus 4 or 5 in vancouver maybe a little more in the valley, and we'd get some snow and then we're back to just above freezing in 3 days or so and slowly the snow melts and the kids all had fun on their day away from school etc.

This year we go from about 5 or 6 above to close to minus 20 with the wind chill. Even in vancouver it's down below minus 7 before wind chill and much lower after. We get snow, but then we get freezing rain which is extremely rare for vancouer (second year in a row now tho). Then the temperature shoots back up in an instant, hitting 8's and 9's for days. With tonnes of rain. And last year was similar - and both are very different than normal and there was a lot of unusual damaged caused.

I'm sorry if this hurts your world view but it's simply denying basic facts to pretend it's 'Normal". It is not. Now - i'm not saying its 'global warming'. I'm not saying that it's man made or whatever else is hurting your feelings to the point that you're getting upset and denying basic information. But - the last two years have been very different than normal. It's simply a lie to pretend otherwise.
 

Taxslave2

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Well there's that :) But believe it or not a lot of this 'flooding' is happening in higher places and on sloped roofs and the like. And in places where there's normally more than adequate drainage but with these conditions the drains just aren't working. And going from 12 below to 10 above with heavy rain means that there's a lot of very frozen ice that won't thaw quick and very large amounts of water with no where to go.

It's mostly over now - only a problem for a few days but in that short time it did a LOT of damage.
Still mostly poor engineering and/or inspections. People have either forgotten bad weather of the past, or chose to ignore the fact that the lower mainland isn't Mexico north. WE can and do have harsh winters, although not the duration other places do. Even building design is often done more on looks on paper than reality in the ground.
Just one example of poor engineering, not related to the city but it stands out.
I worked on the construction of the Kitamat Smelter. Everything we do is controlled by engineers, often not Canadian and almost never from the coast. The structures are all metal, about 100 ft wide and 1200 ft long. No insulation and very light roof structure for an area that regularly get 5 ft of snow. Naturally several sections of roof caved in because there was no heat in the buildings to melt the snow. Turned out they were never designed for snow load because in use the buildings are always warm and snow doesnt stick for long. No thought was given to the two winters of unheated construction.
 

The_Foxer

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Still mostly poor engineering and/or inspections.
Sorry it just isn't. I mean sure it might very well be in some cases, but when a building that's been there for 20 years has a problem that it's never experienced before that has nothing to do with wear and tear, you can't really blow that off as just 'bad engineering'. And certainly not inspections. And when hundreds of buildings are having new problems at the same time that haven't been seen before - again. Sorry that just isn't the case for the most part. This isn't a case of poor design for our usual weather and has zero to do with inspections.

WE can and do have harsh winters,
It's not about the winters being 'harsh'. This isn't just 'moar' winter, this is different winter.
 

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Ahhh, no. The size of the population does not have any impact on whether or not there's freezing rain or snow. It doesn't change the temperature. And you would only NEED "upgrades" if something had changed. So what you're saying is something has changed.

Sorry, this is new. And it's new in a weird way, its not just a case of 'more' snow or cold, but it's the combination of deep cold followed by heavy rain and very warm temps. Weirdly our winter this year has been pretty warm, not crazy warm but certainly on the warmer side. And we've always had arctic outflows that drop the temperature and give us snow for a few days, then it goes away and we're back to normal. But that used to mean we'd go from like 4 or 5 above down to minus 4 or 5 in vancouver maybe a little more in the valley, and we'd get some snow and then we're back to just above freezing in 3 days or so and slowly the snow melts and the kids all had fun on their day away from school etc.

This year we go from about 5 or 6 above to close to minus 20 with the wind chill. Even in vancouver it's down below minus 7 before wind chill and much lower after. We get snow, but then we get freezing rain which is extremely rare for vancouer (second year in a row now tho). Then the temperature shoots back up in an instant, hitting 8's and 9's for days. With tonnes of rain. And last year was similar - and both are very different than normal and there was a lot of unusual damaged caused.

I'm sorry if this hurts your world view but it's simply denying basic facts to pretend it's 'Normal". It is not. Now - i'm not saying its 'global warming'. I'm not saying that it's man made or whatever else is hurting your feelings to the point that you're getting upset and denying basic information. But - the last two years have been very different than normal. It's simply a lie to pretend otherwise.
Yes everything happening now has happened before . Sure this year was abnormally cold , but that has been the case in other years . Sure we mostly stay relatively mild but that is not always the case . Occasionally we see they river clogged with ice perhaps three or four times in my 70 years , it hasn‘t reached that point yet this winter . Freezing rain is also not a one off we see it semi regularly . Everything old is new again in your world .
 
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The_Foxer

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Yes everything happening now has happened before .
When was that exactly? Not in the recorded history of the lower mainland for example - so when was that precisely?

ure this year was abnormally cold but that has been the case in other years
As i've explained, it wasn't really about the cold per se. However taking that one point this year did in fact break records for cold in many areas, and so did 2021.

But it's more than cold. What we're experiencing in the last couple of years simply doesn't happen in the lower mainland, and that's 2 years running. Now, it'd be easy to blow off a single event as just a rare extreme. Given enough time obviously you're going to have unusually hot or cold days here and there or days with more rain or less, or whatever. But the sheer volume of it and the nature of it is well beyond a single event. And the nature of what is happening is different, not just a 'little more cold' or a 'little more hot'. I see it in the nature of the damage done to buildings and property literally by the hundreds.
 

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When was that exactly? Not in the recorded history of the lower mainland for example - so when was that precisely?


As i've explained, it wasn't really about the cold per se. However taking that one point this year did in fact break records for cold in many areas, and so did 2021.

But it's more than cold. What we're experiencing in the last couple of years simply doesn't happen in the lower mainland, and that's 2 years running. Now, it'd be easy to blow off a single event as just a rare extreme. Given enough time obviously you're going to have unusually hot or cold days here and there or days with more rain or less, or whatever. But the sheer volume of it and the nature of it is well beyond a single event. And the nature of what is happening is different, not just a 'little more cold' or a 'little more hot'. I see it in the nature of the damage done to buildings and property literally by the hundreds.
One thing constant about the weather in the lower mainland , it is always changing and no two years are the same . But I will reiterate , anything happening today has happened before . Some years one can skate on Trout Lake other years it doesn’t freeze at all . Which is normal ?
 

The_Foxer

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One thing constant about the weather in the lower mainland , it is always changing and no two years are the same . But I will reiterate , anything happening today has happened before . Some years one can skate on Trout Lake other years it doesn’t freeze at all . Which is normal ?
So your first claim is that there is no normal, followed by this is normal, ending with an admission you don't know what normal is.

Very convincing :)

Sorry but this is not normal. But - feel free to stick your head in the sand and humm if it makes you feel better.
 

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So your first claim is that there is no normal, followed by this is normal, ending with an admission you don't know what normal is.

Very convincing :)

Sorry but this is not normal. But - feel free to stick your head in the sand and humm if it makes you feel better.
What ever , I have seen it all before , normal or not . 70 years in the lower mainland and no two have been the same . What is normal ?
 
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The_Foxer

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What ever , I have seen it all before , normal or not . 70 years in the lower mainland and no two have been the same . What is normal ?
Funny how when i ask "when have you seen this" you have no answer.

And normal is the average range of weather activity seen in a region for a specified time. It's really not a hard concept to grasp. Weather events can step outside of the normal range in intensity, frequency, duration or a combination. For example, its "normal" that we'd hit 0 degrees in greater vancouver. it would not be normal for it to remain at that temperature for 6 months of the year. That would be very abnormal. And yet you would sit here and say "well... i've seen 0 degrees before so it's normal". No - it would still be abnormal for it to last for half a year. etc etc. IT's a pretty simple answer.

The last two years have not been normal. The weather has been outside of the normal ranges in several categories and the damages done to property have been radically higher than normal as a result. This indicates a change to the weather patterns. That might be temporary, might not be.

But you'd have to be pretty silly to call it normal and then claim you don't know what normal is. This is outside of the range of activity we've seen in the last 90 years. Sooooo... yeah.
 

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Hurricane Freda was abnormal and outside of any average ranges , yet she happened , imagine that .
 

The_Foxer

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Hurricane Freda was abnormal and outside of any average ranges , yet she happened , imagine that .
I don't think there's ever been a 'hurricane freda'. Sooooo - sounds like 'she' didn't happen ;) So obviously i can't comment on that.

However if you'd read what i'd explained above and had an education level that allowed you to comprehend it, you'd realize that even if you pick a single bad storm it wouldn't represent something abnormal for the most part. Occasionally there will be really bad storms. But - if you start seeing storms unusally severe bad back to back then that certainly WOULD be abnormal. And if you noticed that cyclones, hurricanes and typhoons were ALL much stronger than normal then that would be noteworthy. Or if the storm did something weird like the winds circled in the wrong direction. etc etc.

This is such a simple concept. I'm stunned you're having such difficulty with it. Maybe we're at the point where you're just gong to have to accept that it's a little over your head. Heck you can't even remember which storms you're talking about.
 

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I don't think there's ever been a 'hurricane freda'. Sooooo - sounds like 'she' didn't happen ;) So obviously i can't comment on that.

However if you'd read what i'd explained above and had an education level that allowed you to comprehend it, you'd realize that even if you pick a single bad storm it wouldn't represent something abnormal for the most part. Occasionally there will be really bad storms. But - if you start seeing storms unusally severe bad back to back then that certainly WOULD be abnormal. And if you noticed that cyclones, hurricanes and typhoons were ALL much stronger than normal then that would be noteworthy. Or if the storm did something weird like the winds circled in the wrong direction. etc etc.

This is such a simple concept. I'm stunned you're having such difficulty with it. Maybe we're at the point where you're just gong to have to accept that it's a little over your head. Heck you can't even remember which storms you're talking about.
Look it up .
 

The_Foxer

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Look it up .
I did,. Doesn't exist. Why don't you post a link to a gov't site or official resource showing a 'hurricane Frieda". There are a number of tropical storms and about 5 typhoons - but not a single hurricane.

Which just goes to show, you not only don't know what you're talking about but you're afraid to look it up yourself when your errors are pointed out. No wonder you keep having to ask what 'normal' is.

I think we're about done with this. Continuing would just be an exercise in displaying you're lack of knowledge or comprehension. The weather in the last 2 (arguably 3) years is behaving significantly differently than the normal range of behavior and we're seeing things not seen before with some regularity. So when you say you've "seen all this before', it's about as accurate as, well, claiming you've seen "hurricane freda".
 
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pgs

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I did,. Doesn't exist. Why don't you post a link to a gov't site or official resource showing a 'hurricane Frieda". There are a number of tropical storms and about 5 typhoons - but not a single hurricane.

Which just goes to show, you not only don't know what you're talking about but you're afraid to look it up yourself when your errors are pointed out. No wonder you keep having to ask what 'normal' is.

I think we're about done with this. Continuing would just be an exercise in displaying you're lack of knowledge or comprehension. The weather in the last 2 (arguably 3) years is behaving significantly differently than the normal range of behavior and we're seeing things not seen before with some regularity. So when you say you've "seen all this before', it's about as accurate as, well, claiming you've seen "hurricane freda".
You are a funny little man . Completely incorrect in your assessments , but funny nonetheless.
 
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