Michael Moore's 'Sicko' Scrutinizes Canada's Healthcare

[Curiosity]

Finger - Moore does research as long as he is making footage with his ever attendant camera on..

IT's part of his schtick. The 'making' of his works are the advertising. Once the product is ready for the market even the regular day to day news people tear into his faulty logic and invalidated assumptions.... for instance:

In the Kleibold and Harris tragedy - he focused on the sale of guns by K-Mart. The two boys were surrounded by guns within their family units - as hunting is/was part of the family lifestyle. The boys were hunched over their computers much of their spare time dreaming up more dungeons and dragons and goth fantasies.... I doubt if either of them frequented K-Mart - especially for weaponry - they were from wealthy families and had access to any number of firearms.

The two boys have become textbook cases of familial indifference, where parental roles are particularly cold and non-existent to the point where the youth have to perform some monumental feat to get someone to find them 'credible' in their sickness of a modern day kind of 'abandonment' by parents who are too busy for their children.

The people who will follow unquestioningly these little Michael Moore fantasy trips believe because he is on a camera - which to some gives omnipotence and truth to every word from their mouth - which we know not to be the case - at least those discerning enough to question much of what we are told, by the media and in Moore's case - a personality - he is nothing more - not a truthteller - a personality - a schtickman - and he makes excellent money at his game... and it is a game....

...with just enough appearance of concerned reporting to suck people in. Too bad he chose that route but money does sing those wonderful notes...

 

[tracy]

Even Fox News and CNN have given it positive reviews. I haven't heard any of them attack the facts he's put in the movie. CNN even researched into it and didn't find factual problems.

 

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

Even Fox News and CNN have given it positive reviews. I haven't heard any of them attack the facts he's put in the movie. CNN even researched into it and didn't find factual problems.

Perhaps the Simpson's movie will also get a positive review. Doesn't make it a documentary.

And I am sure CNN did their due diligence for the 6 hours they assiged the reporter to the story.

 

[Curiosity]

IdRather

LOL - well if the nooz folk said so.... it must be troo....

Thing about Moore I detest is he runs around the world blabbing about how terrible his nation is and how the corrupt government and corporations are skinning the American public...

He never covers the huge sums of money the American taxpayers put out annually in world donations - in health care, supplies, education, etc. and shhhhhhhhhhhh military assistance......shhhhhhhhh

If we didn't share so much with the rest of the world everyone of the 300 million members of the nation would have cradle to grave free medical care.

That would be just one example - in keeping with the topic of Moore's latest angry tantrum. He's just against his nation - and he runs around the world making it known. What a patriot!!

Ambush journalism - made up intervewees and man on the street 'guests' ... pretend corporate executives on camera.... whatta guy... a second coming....

And I thank god every day he is allowed to do so ... that's freedom.

 

[flapperpie]

Flapperpie

But he directs his propaganda to the weakest membership of society ...

His first book - and Automobile Industry and its Unions...

The Harris and Klebold high school shooting horror ... into fiction while placing blame on K-Mart.....

Now the general public on Canadian Medical Care.......

The people who believe him to be credible often haven't the time nor the wherewithall to do their own research unless something of worth might appear on television or in the newspaper..... he has hordes of people believing the crap he delivers.......

He is practicing a form of journalistic mobism at worst journalistic terrorism.

Well, what are the "weakest members of society" going to do, Curiosity? Cancel the medical insurance that they don't have?

 

[Curiosity]

Flapperpie

Actually the 'weakest members' do have coverage....the working poor who have jobs with no medical care - who are expected to pay just as the professionals who have jobs are the people hardest hit...

The productive families with four children for example whose parents are still on the climb up to their dreams, paying off student loans, taking two parent jobs to make ends meet or more often single mothers with far too many children and no support from absentee or unknown fathers - trying to find suitable housing, in good neighborhoods, often requiring cars to transport themselves to work and their kids to school, or daycare.... those are the ones who are caught up short.

Public transportation in most except a few large cities is pretty much non-existent and cars are the preferred mode of getting to work and school and all the other life necessities.

At the other end the seniors are pretty well cared for .... and I guess many of them are the 'weakest members' too.

The drain is the influx of undocumented people who contribute nothing to medical insurance but utilize the system to the max - often hurt on the job, poor living conditions, many children, and the list goes on. These people also require health care and they are receiving it - another 'weakest member of society'.... and they have no insurance.

Nobody is refused medical assistance - the care is there - the insurance or financial ability is not.

So those who pay are also supporting others who need care whether long term or occasional.

The US has the money - but it goes to other nations - when it should be taking care of its own first!

Why? I have no idea. Government sees only what it wishes to acknowledge in the media.

 

[#juan]

http://dsp-psd.pwgsc.gc.ca/Collection-R/LoPBdP/BP/bp300-e.htm

I realize this is an older study but I think the info is still mostly valid.

 

[Zzarchov]

He starts with the point he wants to make, does whatever research is required to get the footage necessary to edit into something that supports his point. If we had access to his raw research, the point may be valid. Otherwise, its just opinion.

Well if its good enough to go to war that way, its good enough to spend $10 at a theatre laughing for a night. You gotta admit, alot of the scenes are funny just in absurdity (in a "talking to american's" kinda way) even if you know they are the worst outtakes all put togethor out of context. It is still funny.

 

[Unforgiven]

But that's like saying since I give you ten bucks, I have the right to punch you in the mouth.

There are plenty of great thing the US does and while I agree that they don't get a lot of play most of the time, it's the American media that came up with the whole what bleeds leads philosophy so in the end it's still the same butt that needs a kick.

I think a big part of the problem and not just with the US but Canada as well is that we tend to grouse so much about the problem, whose fault it is and who we can make an example out of for it, that we turn the majority of people off the whole thing altogether. Then those who are left to decide what is to be are so influenced by lobby groups and corporate power brokers that what's best for the people is not what's chosen in the end.

IdRather

LOL - well if the nooz folk said so.... it must be troo....

Thing about Moore I detest is he runs around the world blabbing about how terrible his nation is and how the corrupt government and corporations are skinning the American public...

He never covers the huge sums of money the American taxpayers put out annually in world donations - in health care, supplies, education, etc. and shhhhhhhhhhhh military assistance......shhhhhhhhh

If we didn't share so much with the rest of the world everyone of the 300 million members of the nation would have cradle to grave free medical care.

That would be just one example - in keeping with the topic of Moore's latest angry tantrum. He's just against his nation - and he runs around the world making it known. What a patriot!!

Ambush journalism - made up intervewees and man on the street 'guests' ... pretend corporate executives on camera.... whatta guy... a second coming....

And I thank god every day he is allowed to do so ... that's freedom.

 

[Curiosity]

Well if its good enough to go to war that way, its good enough to spend $10 at a theatre laughing for a night. You gotta admit, alot of the scenes are funny just in absurdity (in a "talking to american's" kinda way) even if you know they are the worst outtakes all put togethor out of context. It is still funny.

LOL Zzarchov - well if you are going to 'rationalize' those two issues into an excuse - I guess it is funny in its way - personally I'd rather see the U.S. taking care of its own rather than sending its young to parts of the world none of us care about - to die or be maimed for life..... how this has to do with Michael Moore and his funny topic of tragedy within the U.S. nation - it's a bit of a stretch but I'll take humor any time - if it cuts through the pain of reality.

Edit: Thank you Unforgiven - I just read your post which came before mine... well said.

 

[flapperpie]

Curiosity, thank-you for your informative reply.

Canadians tend to believe that those who are bereft of medical insurance are left bleeding and dying on Main Street, U.S.A. I think a lot of it stems from scare tactics during the formation of our country's health plan. The installion of Canada's public healthcare was fraught with opposition from both sides. The medical establishment thought of it as "commie medicine" and we lost many doctors to the U.S. (This was as the height of the Cold War). The supporters bombarded us with scare tactics (as above).

Whetherornot the system is public or private, both are subjected to those who max out the benefits while contributing nothing.

 

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

Well if its good enough to go to war that way, its good enough to spend $10 at a theatre laughing for a night. You gotta admit, alot of the scenes are funny just in absurdity (in a "talking to american's" kinda way) even if you know they are the worst outtakes all put togethor out of context. It is still funny.

The only Micheal Moore movie I actually saw is "Canadian Bacon" and it was only marginally funny. I wasn't aware his movies were supposed to be funny.

I think though I will save my $10 for the Simpsons movie (actually, $40 once you add popcorn and crap).

 

[Curiosity]

Flapperpie

I've watch the U.S. intensely for the time I have resided here, comparing it with what I know of Canadian health care and keeping myself current on it with my own family members.

I guess I'm an isolationist, but I strongly feel no nation - no matter how wealthy or successful should allow any of its citizens to go needy - that none of its humanitarian worldly giving should only come after everyone at home is cared for to the max....

Take care of the family first, then the neighbors. Sounds selfish I know, but the nations weaken themselves by taking on war, taking on too many people who don't really contribute to the health or wealth until a year or two - and when a nation is running smoothly, then they can see what is left over for global situations.

I'm speaking in terms of government now...what private citizens wish to do with their funds (Bono, Oprah, Sarandon, Gates, etc.) that is their business and I have no issue with it. But the government must take care of its own first.

 

[tracy]

Perhaps the Simpson's movie will also get a positive review. Doesn't make it a documentary.

And I am sure CNN did their due diligence for the 6 hours they assiged the reporter to the story.

Well, I don't see anyone here pointing out any factual problems either. Just general criticism of the man doesn't make the facts he uses untrue. I'm more than willing to see anything you've researched that shows he's lying.

 

[tracy]

LOL Zzarchov - well if you are going to 'rationalize' those two issues into an excuse - I guess it is funny in its way - personally I'd rather see the U.S. taking care of its own rather than sending its young to parts of the world none of us care about - to die or be maimed for life..... how this has to do with Michael Moore and his funny topic of tragedy within the U.S. nation - it's a bit of a stretch but I'll take humor any time - if it cuts through the pain of reality.

Edit: Thank you Unforgiven - I just read your post which came before mine... well said.

I think MMoore would agree with you on that. He doesn't seem to be a big supporter of the Iraq war.

 

[#juan]

Whatever Moore is, people buy his movies, books etc. The guy has made millions, not because he is right, but because what he sells is entertainment. At least some of the things he says are outrageous but people are entertained and they come back for more. Is he a billionaire yet.......he must be close.

 

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

Well, I don't see anyone here pointing out any factual problems either. Just general criticism of the man doesn't make the facts he uses untrue. I'm more than willing to see anything you've researched that shows he's lying.

He has on past movies edited interviews out of context altering the belief to match his own. I have no idea whether his new movie is factual or not. I just choose not to treat it like a documentary.

 

[#juan]

In previous threads about Moore, the worst thing a lot of people could think of to say was that he was fat.....

 

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

In previous threads about Moore, the worst thing a lot of people could think of to say was that he was fat.....

I remember a long time ago on a board far far away I was reading some articles about how MM twisted stuff in Columbine to make his point. But the only issue I have is people see his movies and treat them as if they are 100% factual and documentaries. They are neither.

As for being to fat? Thats between him and his doctor.

 

[Curiosity]

Juan you got the idea about Moore

He is an entertainer and a wealthy one at that.

What I dislike is he takes the wounds of a nation - the things which desperately need to be reinvented or at the least repaired and picks the scabs off them for the world to point and laugh at - and again criticize the U.S. for how little it does.

Where does this help his nation - if in fact he has any feelings of belonging to the U.S.

Corporate America is his enemy - and he defends unions for their ineffective battle with the large companies - when he does nothing to get to the real roots of the problems - only exposes them in a grotesque way - which people (outsiders who are not caught up in the tragedies of Detroit, killings by unregulated firearms, Cuba, health care, etc. etc.) see as how the U.S. operates in toto - when in fact that is only a small part of how the U.S. operates.

Anything I write sounds like a half-wit defense against his work.... if he is a clown... let him be known as one.... not as a journalist and truthteller ... which he is not.

I would not be surprised if he one day gets into Walter Reed and mocks the guys who have lost limbs or sight or worse....

He is a failed human - an angry human - who has found a way to get back at his world and become wealthy doing it. Rather like selling his mother into prostitution.