Men's Rights?

[tracy]

The most common type of female genital mutilation is excision of the clitoris and the labia minora, accounting for up to 80% of all cases; the most extreme form is infibulation, which constitutes about 15% of all procedures

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs241/en/

I actually agree with you that male circumcision is wrong. Like I said, I don't participate in them because I don't believe in performing cosmetic surgery on babies. I just don't want them to be confused with what's done to girls in some African countries because removing the entire clitoris is not analogous to removing a male's foreskin.

 

[Andrew]

Re: RE: Men's Rights?

2.) If you can't make a case for the loss of a child, then your dancing around the issue, He only had a hand in the creation of the fetus. If the Fetus isn't half his despite it being 50% his genetic material, then it CANNOT become 50% his later, without him taking any further action.
)

The problem here is women's rights are being mixed with children's rights. A woman has the right to an abortion because she can't be forced to remain pregnant against her will. That's "women's rights".

Child support is the right of the child. Children have a right to support from both their parents. That isn't a "women's rights" issue because children are both male and female. It has nothing to do with parents owning their children. The right to child support happens when a person is born and endowed with rights. Up until the birth, there is no person and thus no rights to be protected. That's why a man's responsibility CAN and DOES change without him doing anything. It's the birth that changes things.

Why wouldn't men's rights activists want to ensure that all male children are supported by both parents? Or do men only matter when they are adults?

I don't think anyone is agruing the pint that men don't want to take care of their kids. Men DO want to take care of their kids. The issue is when they have chosen not to be a parent long before the sexual act itself, and through no fault of his or hers, THEY are pregnant. The issue is a matter of choice. Currently she has ALL the choice, and he has ZERO choice and must do as she decides.

Nobody should be forced to have an abortion, the same as nobody should be forced to be a parent. The sad part for the man is when he wants the baby and she does not. Her right will always prevail. But in the case where he does not want the baby and she does, then she should go into motherhood understanding that the child will not be supported by a father. That should be a man's right to choose.

 

[Andrew]

Re: RE: Men's Rights?

Sex isn't needed for survival.

Believe what you want, but it is necessary for emotional, mental, and physical health. Therfore, part of survival.

It isn't necessary for physical health. If it was, priests and nuns would drop dead. That's not just my personal belief.

Doctors are recommending sex now, due to the positive chemicals released into your system which fight cancers and has a positive impact on your mental state. Plus, with no sex, the toxins that build up in a man's prostate are not flushed away, which will lead to early prostate issues and cancers.

It is also something you crave, much like food, water and air. If you have not had food in a while, you can think of nothing else except for food...Just ask the people who have been on Survivor.

 

[missile]

I'm assuming here that masturbation is included in this[a lot of people have no partner]

 

[tracy]

Re: RE: Men's Rights?

[Nobody should be forced to have an abortion, the same as nobody should be forced to be a parent. The sad part for the man is when he wants the baby and she does not. Her right will always prevail. But in the case where he does not want the baby and she does, then she should go into motherhood understanding that the child will not be supported by a father. That should be a man's right to choose.

I understand that would be frustrating for a man (becoming a father when he doesn't want to), even though he knows the risks of sex and he knows that he can't force a woman to have an abortion. He isn't really forced to be a parent because he isn't forced to have vaginal sex with a woman. A lot of men live without doing that. His right to choose is before a pregnancy occurs. If he really wants sex without any risks of pregnancy, he can always have a vasectomy, just like a woman can get a tubal ligation or only engage in sexual acts that don't lead to pregnancy.

I just don't see why a child should suffer because the father didn't want a child or because the mother was irresponsible. That isn't right IMO. I feel the same way when a woman doesn't want the father involved. It isn't her decision because her child deserves to have a relationship with his or her father.

 

[Andrew]

Re: RE: Men's Rights?

[Nobody should be forced to have an abortion, the same as nobody should be forced to be a parent. The sad part for the man is when he wants the baby and she does not. Her right will always prevail. But in the case where he does not want the baby and she does, then she should go into motherhood understanding that the child will not be supported by a father. That should be a man's right to choose.

I understand that would be frustrating for a man (becoming a father when he doesn't want to), even though he knows the risks of sex and he knows that he can't force a woman to have an abortion. He isn't really forced to be a parent because he isn't forced to have vaginal sex with a woman. A lot of men live without doing that. His right to choose is before a pregnancy occurs. If he really wants sex without any risks of pregnancy, he can always have a vasectomy, just like a woman can get a tubal ligation or only engage in sexual acts that don't lead to pregnancy.

I just don't see why a child should suffer because the father didn't want a child or because the mother was irresponsible. That isn't right IMO. I feel the same way when a woman doesn't want the father involved. It isn't her decision because her child deserves to have a relationship with his or her father.

Everyone knows the risks, but only the man has no choice if there is an accident. So, men should be given the choice if there IS and accident. And the sexual act and agreeing to be a parent are two TOTALLY different things. The child wouldn't have to suffer...The mother gets to make that decision (abortion/adopt/raise the child by herself). Like I say, nobody should be forced to have an abortion or to be a parent. We all deserve the RIGHT to choose. And abstinence or a vasectomy are not realistic choices.

 

[tracy]

Yes only the man has no choice when an accident results in pregnancy, just like only the woman faces physical consequences. It isn't fair for either gender.

I think it's insulting to men to suggest that a child doesn't suffer by not having a relationship with his or her father. Fathers are so important, it's a shame their importance is minimized the way it is.

I don't see why vasectomies aren't realistic. Millions of men get them. It's a simple procedure with a short recovery that can allow you to have as much sex as you want for the rest of your life without worrying about unwanted pregnancies. It can even be reversed later if you change your mind.

 

[fuzzylogix]

Re: RE: Men's Rights?

Sex isn't needed for survival.

Speak for yourself.

I'm not saying I live a celebate life or anything, just that a lack of sex will not in fact cause death :lol:

Whew! You had me worried about you for a minute there, Tracy.

 

[Zzarchov]

Bullshit.

Children do not need either particular parent to turn out good. They need to be raised well, who their biological parents are is irrelevant to their wellbeing.

If you want a child to be guaranteed to have a good family, put him up for adoption, there is currently in Canada a shortage of children available to be adopted. And those who wish a baby go through a helluva lot more screening than those who have one naturally.

There is nothing worse (as I say from experience) than growing up with a parent who doesn't want to be there because of some stupid antiquated and faulty notion that "a baby needs his father", no he or she doesn't.
Needs a family, and whether that includes his biological mother or father is irrelevant. So many children have their lives worsened by baselss opinions like this about their "need" for their biological father/mother.

If you are a parent it is a bonus in your life, not the childs.

Here is a thought:

Allow either parent to put his half of the responsibility for the child up for adoption before the child is born. If some other man decides to adopt the child he would take all responsibilities and rights of the biological father. He would pay child support, he would have joint custody exactly as if he were the biological father.

 

[fuzzylogix]

Men should be very careful about having a vasectomy. It should be considered permanent. While some men may be lucky enough to be able to reverse the vasectomy, this is not always the case.
With the high rates of divorce and death these days, a man is often entering a second marriage. In many of these instances, he suddenly realizes that he wants another child or he loves his new wife and she is really keen on having a child so he wants to try again.

The same goes for women having tubal ligations, although the age factor and physical stress of carrying children do make women somewhat more emphatic that even if they remarried they would not have more kids. So more men go for trying reversals than women.

There are some links with vasectomies and prostatic cancer too.

 

[fuzzylogix]

I'm assuming here that masturbation is included in this[a lot of people have no partner]

Well, Missile, only if the woman has the right to sue the man for the loss of the child she would have had if he hadnt been so selfish in satisfying his urges with masturbation instead of having sex with her on the night she planned to forget her birth control and get pregnant.

 

[tracy]

Re: RE: Men's Rights?

Bullshit.

Children do not need either particular parent to turn out good. They need to be raised well, who their biological parents are is irrelevant to their wellbeing.

If you want a child to be guaranteed to have a good family, put him up for adoption, there is currently in Canada a shortage of children available to be adopted. And those who wish a baby go through a helluva lot more screening than those who have one naturally.
.

Don't worry, I'm very pro-adoption being that I am adopted. I do have great parents and they did have to go through a lot to get me and my brother. I know my birth mom and am very grateful she and my birth father made the choice they did. I also have a niece who is my brother's step daughter that he plans to adopt. He's her dad and that's enough IMO. Perhaps I should have said children need A father rather than THEIR father.

I don't think biology is necessary to raise a child at all. I do think having my mother and my father was very important though. It would not have been the same if I was raised by a single mother. Male role models aren't just nice extras for kids. They matter.

 

[tracy]

Re: RE: Men's Rights?

Sex isn't needed for survival.

Speak for yourself.

I'm not saying I live a celebate life or anything, just that a lack of sex will not in fact cause death :lol:

Whew! You had me worried about you for a minute there, Tracy.

:lol: Rest easy, it isn't one of my life choices :lol:

 

[tracy]

I'm assuming here that masturbation is included in this[a lot of people have no partner]

Well, Missile, only if the woman has the right to sue the man for the loss of the child she would have had if he hadnt been so selfish in satisfying his urges with masturbation instead of having sex with her on the night she planned to forget her birth control and get pregnant.

:lol: :lol: HILARIOUS!!!

 

[Andrew]

Re: RE: Men's Rights?

Yes only the man has no choice when an accident results in pregnancy, just like only the woman faces physical consequences. It isn't fair for either gender.

I think it's insulting to men to suggest that a child doesn't suffer by not having a relationship with his or her father. Fathers are so important, it's a shame their importance is minimized the way it is.

I don't see why vasectomies aren't realistic. Millions of men get them. It's a simple procedure with a short recovery that can allow you to have as much sex as you want for the rest of your life without worrying about unwanted pregnancies. It can even be reversed later if you change your mind.

Sorry Tracy, you missed my point. If the mother had an abortion, or put the child up for adoption, then the child would not suffer. I agree, fathers are essential for children.

Why don't all women get their tubes tied, then nobody would have to worry about unwanted pregnancies. Doesn't sound so easy anymore, does it.

 

[Andrew]

I'm assuming here that masturbation is included in this[a lot of people have no partner]

Well, Missile, only if the woman has the right to sue the man for the loss of the child she would have had if he hadnt been so selfish in satisfying his urges with masturbation instead of having sex with her on the night she planned to forget her birth control and get pregnant.

:lol: :lol: HILARIOUS!!!

OK, but every month when she has her period, she has to pay him for the lost child!! Hee hee

 

[Nikki]

1. Men's right to choose (to be a father or not - we are not just sperm donors)
2. Father's rights (divorce and child custody)
3. Criminal laws not applied equally to both sexes
4. Misandry in the media
5. Genital mutilation (circumcision) - OK for males, illegal for females?!?
6. Lack of "men's studies" courses in university
7. Unequal access (men's only clubs (sports teams, scouts, etc) = bad, women's only clubs (just ladies fitness) = good?!?)
8. Push to encourage males to gain valuable higher level education is very limited, but the push to encourage females to continue their education is HUGE!!! Many more females than males in universities today.
9. Lack of studies on men's health
10. Domestic violence against males (physical, mental, and emotional abuse goes mostly unreported)

Although I do somewhat agree with you.
1)Men should have some say but unfortunantly that child is growing inside a women ultimately it is her decision. She is the one who has it growing inside of her for 9 mnths not you.
2) The reason why women mostly end up with children after a divorce is because they are the primary care givers not because anyone has anything against men. I know several men who have been awarded custody of their children because the mothers were found unfit.
3) Crimnal laws are you fucking kidding me?
4) "mes studies" screw you. Like someone said earlyer mens studies is called "history"
5) the reason people push females to get an education is that it is harder for females and a good portion of females just raise children and don't work.
6) Domestic violence against males. It is't that noone is willing to help it is that males generally do not come forward.

 

[Nikki]

Or what if he doesnt want to be burdened with it emotionally or financially and she does?

This is a good point. However i think it should go both ways what if the women wants to opt out? Personally I think they should be able to do this in a court of law. However that being said if you opt out you opt out there is no going back later.

 

[Nikki]

Re: RE: Men's Rights?

Number 5 made me laugh. How can male circumcision even compare with the removal of your clitoris? I mean THINK ABOUT IT, it doesn't work anymore! That's the entire point.

Female genital mutilation doesn't necessarily involve the removal of the clitoris, though it usually does. Some groups only cut off the clitoral hood which is analogous to the male foreskin.

Personally I think both are icky, but I realize I'm in the minority. I'm the only nurse on my unit who won't participate in circumcisions.

Ouch I have actually never herd of this. 8O As for the guy thing I think I would let LRG make that decision if we had a boy as I don't have a penis so I have no idea about the differences and stuff.

 

[Nikki]

Re: RE: Men's Rights?

The only other part of your post I would disagree with is ...#6 a bit. Every history course I have ever taken has focused on men. It isn't called men's studies, but that's what it is.

Women's studies are not about women in history. They are about women's issues. The problems women face, and studies on how to overcome those problems. The same cannot be said for men. There are no courses on men's issues, and the problems facing men. Probably because people turn a blind eye to men's issues, and don't think they are important, but they are just as real and important as women's issues. Just because we pretend the issue doesn't exist, doesn't make it go away.

I have seen men's studies courses before. But they are hardley ever full because noone is interested in them.