Marvels of God's creation

Torch light

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Dec 4, 2017
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That is your belief. Since I cannot say for sure if there are one or many Gods, I state the plural and usually use They, though to me it doesn't matter the Name of what you call Them. In the end, if you live your life well and as good as you can, the name doesn't matter. But if you do wrong or evil in the name of Them, then you're evil and again, it won't matter what you call Them.
This is idolatry or polytheism.
 

Nick Danger

Council Member
Jul 21, 2013
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This is idolatry or polytheism.
What does your God say about browbeating others with your version of morality? Doesn't he have something to say about letting others follow the path God has laid out for them ? But that's just the Bible, not so much God's word as written and rewritten and re-rewritten by mere humans.
 
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Nick Danger

Council Member
Jul 21, 2013
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When I speak, it is the browbeating, when you speak what you like, it is the morality?
I make no claim to divine knowledge. I just bugs me when I see people toss insults and claim the moral high road on subjects that are basically unknowable. You are entitled to your beliefs, but you are not entitled to judge mine.

“Heal the sick, feed the hungry, care for the weakest among us, and always pray in private.”

 

Torch light

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Dec 4, 2017
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I make no claim to divine knowledge. I just bugs me when I see people toss insults and claim the moral high road on subjects that are basically unknowable. You are entitled to your beliefs, but you are not entitled to judge mine.

“Heal the sick, feed the hungry, care for the weakest among us, and always pray in private.”

This is wrong; because when I believe about God and the Next Life, it means: I believe about God and about the Next Life, so that any other belief is wrong in my opinion, or else I cannot say I believe.
E.g. when you believe it is day, while another one says it is night, then you have to know the other belief is wrong, or else why should you believe it is day?
 

Serryah

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This is wrong; because when I believe about God and the Next Life, it means: I believe about God and about the Next Life, so that any other belief is wrong in my opinion, or else I cannot say I believe.

Actually you can still believe but the other person can also be not wrong. Because their belief or lack of should NOT affect yours. If it does, then your faith is fragile already.

E.g. when you believe it is day, while another one says it is night, then you have to know the other belief is wrong, or else why should you believe it is day?

If you believe it's day, and I believe it's night, my first question would be "where in the world are you?"
 

Torch light

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Dec 4, 2017
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Actually you can still believe but the other person can also be not wrong. Because their belief or lack of should NOT affect yours. If it does, then your faith is fragile already.



If you believe it's day, and I believe it's night, my first question would be "where in the world are you?"
This is your fallacy.
But the truth is one, so either you or the other person's idea can be true, or all are wrong.
But only one is the truth, not more.
Where in the world are you? In the same place: this is very clear.
 

Serryah

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This is your fallacy.

And what does that mean?

But the truth is one, so either you or the other person's idea can be true, or all are wrong.

No, Truth can also be contextual or subjective. My truth can be mine but not someone else's truth. Your truth isn't my truth, for example and yet, at least to me, that does not invalidate your truth or mine.

But only one is the truth, not more.

See above.

Where in the world are you? In the same place: this is very clear.

I'm in Canada, why?
 

Torch light

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No, Truth can also be contextual or subjective. My truth can be mine but not someone else's truth. Your truth isn't my truth, for example and yet, at least to me, that does not invalidate your truth or mine.
This is called your stubbornness, which also is against logical facts.
 

Nick Danger

Council Member
Jul 21, 2013
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But the truth is one, so either you or the other person's idea can be true, or all are wrong.
But only one is the truth, not more.

He's right,"truth" is highly subjective when speaking of things that can't be proven or veirfied. What's true for you may not necessarily be true for another and without some method of judging what is "true" then to say you're right and someone else is wrong is a pretty shaky position, and more than a little arrogant.

I'm much more inclined to consider beliefs that can be reconciled with the diversity of people who hold them.
 
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Serryah

House Member
Dec 3, 2008
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This is called your stubbornness, which also is against logical facts.
Really? So the truth that I have - that there are likely many God's - is your truth as well? Or the truth that holy books written by men are likely hubris is truth to you too? Because those two things are truths to me.
 

Torch light

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Dec 4, 2017
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Really? So the truth that I have - that there are likely many God's - is your truth as well? Or the truth that holy books written by men are likely hubris is truth to you too? Because those two things are truths to me.
This is not the truth: it is your missing the truth.
(And [you will see whether] I or you are on guidance or in obvious error.) -- the meaning of the Quran 34: 24.

The meaning of the entire aya 34: 24:
(Say: "Who provides for you from the [gaseous] heavens [with the rain] and the earth [with the plant and fruit?]"

Say: "God [it is Who provides for you], and [you will see whether] I or you are on guidance or in obvious error."
)

The interpretation by Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly
 
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Serryah

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Dec 3, 2008
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This is not the truth: it is your missing the truth.
(And [you will see whether] I or you are on guidance or in obvious error.) -- the meaning of the Quran 34: 24.

The meaning of the entire aya 34: 24:
(Say: "Who provides for you from the [gaseous] heavens [with the rain] and the earth [with the plant and fruit?]"

Say: "God [it is Who provides for you], and [you will see whether] I or you are on guidance or in obvious error."
)

The interpretation by Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly

That is your opinion. Opinion is not truth.

All Books of Gods are created by men, read by men, understood with man's understanding.

That's not a bad thing, mind you.

But you cannot claim those words to be the words of the Gods in pure form.

My truth is that such words aren't actual 'words' per say, but feelings one can get at times when the Gods speak to you. Birth of a child, death of a loved one, dawn, sunset, the night sky; any time you have feelings of peace and calm and feel life, you are 'hearing' the 'words' of the Gods.
 

Torch light

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Dec 4, 2017
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That is your opinion. Opinion is not truth.

All Books of Gods are created by men, read by men, understood with man's understanding.
The opinion may be the truth or not.
You have to differentiate between God the Creator, and other gods which might be the idols (or statues) or some men of religion or some kings.
Therefore, such statues of stone or other materials cannot be gods unless the false god of the idolaters.

While God the Creator, and is named Almighty or Most Gracious or Most Merciful: He is the only One God in the entire universe.

God is named with different names by different nations, like:
Allah in Arabic, God in English, Khodah in Persian and Kurdish, the Great Spirit is His name with Red Indians. But all these names indicate the One God the Creator of the universe. And there is no other god in the entire universe other than God alone without associate or equal.

Moreover, you are wrong concerning that "all books of Gods are created by men .. etc."
 

Nick Danger

Council Member
Jul 21, 2013
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Moreover, you are wrong concerning that "all books of Gods are created by men .. etc."
Inspired by God perhaps, but the creation of man, and as such subject to all the biases and weaknesses that go along with being human. The Bible is a perfect example of this, with the countless vesions avaialble, and the countless revisions, additions, and exclusions it has undergone.
 

Nick Danger

Council Member
Jul 21, 2013
1,369
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Penticton, BC
Inspired by God perhaps, but the creation of man, and as such subject to all the biases and weaknesses that go along with being human. The Bible is a perfect example of this, with the countless versions available, and the countless revisions, translations, additions and exclusions it has undergone.
 
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Serryah

House Member
Dec 3, 2008
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The opinion may be the truth or not.
You have to differentiate between God the Creator, and other gods which might be the idols (or statues) or some men of religion or some kings.
Therefore, such statues of stone or other materials cannot be gods unless the false god of the idolaters.

Statues and other things of Gods aren't false idols, rather they were ways to worship the Gods people of the day looked to. That doesn't make those people wrong, just different in their worship. It also does not make those Gods false.

While God the Creator, and is named Almighty or Most Gracious or Most Merciful: He is the only One God in the entire universe.

The Creator, the Being above All, That Who Is... whatever you wish to call it, doesn't matter. The Creator can be Many or One, we don't know. To say "The Creator is This" is hubris and ego.

God is named with different names by different nations, like:
Allah in Arabic, God in English, Khodah in Persian and Kurdish, the Great Spirit is His name with Red Indians. But all these names indicate the One God the Creator of the universe.

Well at least you're correct on who the Creator is - though "Red Indian"? That's a tad insulting. Native American would be better.

And there is no other god in the entire universe other than God alone without associate or equal.

And that's where you are wrong, because, again, you don't know, I don't know, we don't know. God can be Many Gods or can be One; it is the Creator so who are we to dictate what it can and can't be?

Moreover, you are wrong concerning that "all books of Gods are created by men .. etc."

Am I? Why? How?

If a book is written by men then they damn well have edited it to fit some agenda one time or another. No book was ever faithfully written word for word. Even books today with mass print contain mistakes.