Martin & the gas tax

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
You need to learn more about the west, Splinters. Come out and visit sometime. Your observations, because that's what makes the news, are really of Alberta and not of the west. Manitoba and Saskatchewan both have NDP governments. BC has had NDP governments in the past.

Come on out and travel around out here. It's a lot different than what you think.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
Alberta really isn't that bad, but its most vocal citizens are. The government there is every bit as regressive as George Bush's and they stomp and scream and perpetuate lies about the rest of the country.

That will change as they keep growing though. The hardliners are going to be massively pissed off when Alberta gets an Liberal or NDOP government in a decade or so.
 

missile

House Member
Dec 1, 2004
4,846
17
38
Saint John N.B.
The worst thing they've done there was to cut the social programs way back. You're absolutely right,Klein wants to be part of the USA.Just as we want to know who were the dumbasses who elected George,I want to know the ones who did the same for Ralphie.
 

splinters

New Member
Sep 3, 2005
48
0
6
Montreal Kebec
Re: RE: Martin & the gas tax

Reverend Blair said:
You need to learn more about the west, Splinters. Come out and visit sometime. Your observations, because that's what makes the news, are really of Alberta and not of the west. Manitoba and Saskatchewan both have NDP governments. BC has had NDP governments in the past.

Come on out and travel around out here. It's a lot different than what you think.

I'm sure it is. I'm prolly just getting quebec nationalist propaganda gunking up my brainfilters. I never said that's what I really thought, it's just what I'm getting.
:quebec:

I'm not just getting that from news though, I've got about six friends from and in western canada, and I haven't heard many positive things.

(one stabbed by asian gang in BC, the rest depressed alberta-ers)


edit; isn't Alberta included in Jesus-Land?
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
I'm prolly just getting quebec nationalist propaganda gunking up my brainfilters.

It isn't just Quebec. The national news, no matter which network, paper, or magazine, tends to speak of western alienation when what they really mean is Alberta alienation. The thing is that Alberta largely alienates itself by trying to dictate to the rest of the country, then getting all snotty when the rest of the country doesn't agree with it.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
There has always been a lot of right-wing Christian rhetoric in Alberta. A lot of the original settlers were Americans and their descendants still identify with the US.

A lot of it is just Alberta believing its own myth though. They will tell you that they achieved everything on their own, that the rest of Canada never contributed at all. They've taken federal money from the start though, and continue to take federal money to this day. The most blatant example of this is the oil sands. It simply would not exist if the rest of the country hadn't paid to get it rolling. Expecting a little back on our investment is perfectly reasonable at this point. We've been more than patient.

They'll tell you that the NEP almost destroyed the province. That isn't true. The entire country, in fact the entire world was suffering at that time. The NEP kept fuel prices reasonable across the country, led to the building of infrastucture (paid for by the feds) that benefits Alberta to this day, and kept the rest of the Canadian economy in better shape than the US's. Without it, Alberta would have been in much worse financial shape.

They will tell you that there's a democratic deficit and that Alberta doesn't get as much say as they deserve. That's a load of crap. Alberta is better represented on a per capita basis than Ontario is, yet they complain that Ontario has the power. Ontario does have the power. They have it because they have the people. That's how democracy works.

They will tell you that they would be better off as a US state. US states with similarly small populations have all the same complaints about Washington as Alberta has about Ottawa though, so they are either mistaken or lying when they say that.

They will tell you that Alberta gives more than its share to the country. This is true to an extent, but Ontario gives far more, not just in money but as an economic engine to produce wealth in the rest of the country.

They will tell you that Kyoto is a plot to steal their oil wealth. This is the biggest load of crap of all. The oil industry itself has said that Kyoto will cost it only between 7 and 25 cents per barrel, depending on the extraction method. Even when oil was $20.00 per barrel that was not a major blow.

Their real problem with Kyoto is that it will eventually cut into the markets they have for selling their product. They hold the country over a barrel and they like it that way, so they don't want Kyoto to change it.

Most of how Alberta got the way they are is by believing their own myth and the rhetoric of their leaders. When the rest of the country says that greed isn't good and that science is a better judge of environmental problems than right-wing rhetoric, it tosses them into a tizzy.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
That's worth remembering. I know some very progressive people in Alberta who are very involved in the politics of trying to make things better. I also know some conservatives there (from the PC party of Joe Clark and Flora MacDonald) who are completely fed up with Klein and Harper and the rest of these idiots.

It is Klein and Harper and their ilk that are in control though, and the rhetoric you hear is from them and their supporters. When I talk about Alberta I'm referring to the leaders and those that keep them in power.
 

splinters

New Member
Sep 3, 2005
48
0
6
Montreal Kebec
And as you'd know there are a fair bunch of conservatives here in Quebec, too, despite whatever Harper calls us because of the Gay Marriage results.
And THEY all have him. >_<

I wish there was some sort of "stfu" law.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
When it comes to politicians, there is a kind of natural STFU law. They piss people off, then their party dumps them as leader. They are then forced to STFU because the media ignores them.
 

whicker

Electoral Member
Feb 20, 2005
108
0
16
Ontario
Re: RE: Martin & the gas tax

TenPenny said:
It's pretty goddam funny when Newfoundlanders are complaining about the price of gas while enjoying royalties from their offshore oil WHILE AT THE SAME TIME getting equalization payments....feck it all.

Not funny in any way. They pay more than the rest of Canada by times - for commodities. I don't know as I would say they are getting royalty payments when all that ditthers has given them is one payment of 2 billion dollars!! and is keeping the rest .... well, who knows where their other payments are going???? Sounds like a lot but it isn't even a drop in the bucket when their 12 billion dollar debt is taken into consideration.

I for one don't resent NFLD or NS getting (or supposed to be getting) this money. Compared to provinces west of NB, especially Alberta (and kudos to them for having their royalties) the East has been pretty poorly done by - this is my opinion and I am open to other views on this.
 

splinters

New Member
Sep 3, 2005
48
0
6
Montreal Kebec
Re: RE: Martin & the gas tax

Reverend Blair said:
When it comes to politicians, there is a kind of natural STFU law. They piss people off, then their party dumps them as leader. They are then forced to STFU because the media ignores them.

Let's make "STFU HARPER" t-shirts.
Hell, I've got the fabric paint, I'll do it this weekend.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
I think it's something he is being forced to do for political reasons. He has to do something because the outcry is too large to ignore. His first step is to try to avoid doing anything though. He's made the announcement and is hoping the oil companies will fall into line.