Lumbering Along: So much for peace in our time

BitWhys

what green dots?
Apr 5, 2006
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Like no one saw this one coming. Here we go again. :roll:

U.S. takes Canada to court over lumber agreement
Peter Morton, Financial Post
Published: Tuesday, August 07, 2007
TORONTO -- The U.S. made good Tuesday on its threat to force Ottawa and the timber-producing provinces to comply with the 10-month-old softwood lumber agreement (SLA), saying it will seek binding arbitration against Canada in a move that could cost the domestic industry hundreds of millions of dollars in extra costs.

Susan Schwab, the U.S. trade representative, said she is filing a formal complaint through the London Court of International Arbitration because of what she said was Ottawa's refusal to live up with the agreement.

"It is truly regrettable that, just 10 months after the agreement entered into force, the United States has no choice but to initiate arbitration proceedings to compel Canada to live up to its SLA obligations," she said.

In addition, Schwab said she is working with the U.S. Commerce Department to see if it is necessary to take "any future steps" against Canada over softwood exports after talks between the two countries went nowhere in recent months.

David Emerson, Canada's minister of international trade, insisted Canada will defend its position at the private court.

"This announcement stems from differing interpretations of the softwood lumber agreement by Canada and the U.S.," he said. "Despite extensive talks with industry, we were not able to resolve this issue during the consultation phase."

Emerson and Schwab are expected to talk about the dispute when they meet next week at a scheduled NAFTA meeting in Vancouver.

Lumber industry sources have said as much as US$500-million in additional duties could be at stake since the London court could take as long as eight months to rule. The private court is made up of international judges and its decision is final.

This will be the first major test of the latest attempt to end 20 years of lumber disputes between the two countries. The deal signed last summer returned about US$4-billion of the US$5-billion in duties collected from Canadian producers since the last truce lapsed in 2002.

Yet since the deal came into force in October, the U.S. housing market has slumped badly. That has pushed North American lumber prices below a key US$355 per thousand board threshold to about $309.

To try to prevent sharp increases in Canadian shipments during periods of low prices, the agreement has a "surge mechanism" that imposes either extra duties or restricts shipments, the U.S. argues.

The U.S. Coalition for Fair Lumber Imports said that Ottawa has under-collected about US$116-million so far under that surge mechanism.

"Canada's failure to honour its commitments under the agreement continues to severely harm the U.S. lumber industry ... ," said Steve Swanson, the coalition's chairman.

OPTIONAL CUT BEGINS

Specifically, the U.S. side insists that British Columbia producers, which ship about half of all of Canada's construction lumber to the United States, owe at least $14 million a month since January in extra duties on top of the 15% duty already paid. In the case of Quebec and Ontario, the country's other top producers, paying the duty would have meant a sharp drop in the volume of lumber shipped to the U.S.

"Canada only made the downward adjustment for the eastern provinces for the first time in July and has yet to make any adjustment for B.C. and Alberta," Schwab said.

But John Allan, head of the B.C. Lumber Trade Council, said the surge provision applies only to the other provinces.

Schwab also said she intends to look into new programs by Ontario and Quebec the U.S. believes are designed to help their struggling industries. They include, she said, "several grant, loan, loan guarantee, and tax credit programs, as well as "forest management" programs and programs that promote wood production.

The London court process was included in the agreement to bypass NAFTA panels, something the U.S. had objected to. Hearings with retired judges not from North America will likely be held as early as next year. A decision from the court cannot be appealed.

Financial Post

go figure.
 

Karlin

Council Member
Jun 27, 2004
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well so what does this mean?
- Has Canada been shipping more lumber than we agreed we would?
- Is this surge mechanism being violated by Canada?

Or is this just more baseless crap thrown at us by American lumber barons, as was the case so many times before, where courts ruled in our favour?
 

elevennevele

Electoral Member
Mar 13, 2006
787
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It means that even though we bent over despite all those rulings in our favour in the International Courts, the US still doesn't feel it's screwed us over hard enough. Harper must be so proud having strong armed our lumber industry out of that owed billion dollars so that the US can now try to take us to court on our bad deal agreement to ourselves.
 

BitWhys

what green dots?
Apr 5, 2006
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...
Or is this just more baseless crap thrown at us by American lumber barons, as was the case so many times before, where courts ruled in our favour?

I doubt it. From what I understand about the SLA this should be strictly spreadsheet. Given Canada's New Government®'s track record the chances our negotiators are supporting the province's "interpretation" of the formula to forestall appearing at fault are pretty damn high.

Either way, the fact the SLA is open to interpretation at all leaves me no doubt its a flawed contract.

There's no escrow. Losing this one is going to hurt like stink.
 

BitWhys

what green dots?
Apr 5, 2006
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How can they do that?....We bent towards them...they were told they were wrong officially twice by nafta....
unreal....

NAFTA is irrelevant. A deal as been signed that supersedes it. Its the meaning of that deal that will be decided summarily in court. period.
 

Cobalt_Kid

Council Member
Feb 3, 2007
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The US home building industry is in the toilet due to insane mortgage policies, I guess it's no wonder that the US lumber lobby is moving once again to protect it's turf. Less demand for wood means a softer market and even previous agreed on quotas aren't acceptable to US producers. Relying on Harper and Emerson to stand up for Canada is a waste of time, they're only really interested in syncronizing the Canadian economy with the US. Parts of Canada are becoming an economic wastland.

I guess we can all move to Alberta and work in the oil industry...until GW ends that too.
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
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In the bush near Sudbury
well so what does this mean?
- Has Canada been shipping more lumber than we agreed we would?
- Is this surge mechanism being violated by Canada?

Or is this just more baseless crap thrown at us by American lumber barons, as was the case so many times before, where courts ruled in our favour?

What it means is Uncle Sam just rubbed sand into the vaseline.

Wolf
 

BitWhys

what green dots?
Apr 5, 2006
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Harper should have known who he was dealing with. The deal has formulas in it to deal with soft markets that shouldn't have been open to interpretation. Everyone and his dog saw this coming.
 

BitWhys

what green dots?
Apr 5, 2006
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A true oddity of the deal is that raw lumber, the very thing the American lumber industry refers says is subsidized, is exempt from export tariffs.
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
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Yeah, so what? Everyone who voted for the Harpoids was given notice this would happen. Everyone who voted the Liberal government out was standing right there when it was said. So it's a little late to cry foul about this now.

Those who lose their jobs, enjoy your freedom. Those who need to turn to the government to help them from losing their homes, please be out by Friday and turn off the lights when you leave. Those who think that we as Canadians stand a chance in court, (like the decision of the Court matters if it rules against the US) there is a bridge in Minneapolis and I can get you a great deal on it.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
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Is anyone else sorry that Harper gave them that billion dollar break a couple years ago. At the time, that was the deal to end all deals, and it was good for us, according to Harper. According to the lumber people I talk to, we have not exceeded any part of the later agreement that would justify any penalty.
 

Cobalt_Kid

Council Member
Feb 3, 2007
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Why is it Harper only plays hardball when it comes to forcing Canadians to bow to his authority. I have yet to see him show any real backbone when it comes to standing up to foreign governments and companies running roughshod over Canadian interests. CN is a great example of this, we've got a US owned rail carrier that has cut so many corners it can't keep its trains on the tracks anymore, but the federal government does almost nothing to force it to be accountable. CN almost got away with the Cheakamus River spill, the feds waited till virtually the last day possible to lay charges, if the press hadn't said something I doubt even that would have happened.

We're going to wake up one day and find we have no control over our own economy and natural resources because of the type of "leadership" we have under Harper.
 

JoeSchmoe

Time Out
May 28, 2007
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The JoeSchmoe dispute resolution mechanism.... one simle letter...

Dear America:

If you don't want our lumber then you can't have our oil either.

with love,
Canada
Unf:

The Libs were no better.... none. zilch... zero. They did squat. Same crap different smell.
 

Cobalt_Kid

Council Member
Feb 3, 2007
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"Canada's New Government" was supposed to fix the problems we had under the Liberals. If it's repeating the same mistakes then it's a failure.
 
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elevennevele

Electoral Member
Mar 13, 2006
787
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Why is it Harper only plays hardball when it comes to forcing Canadians to bow to his authority.


Yes, it's true. When Harper feels he needs to play hardball he does so down our Canadian backs. Otherwise, the media are barred from the hardball event and then he comes out of such an international meeting talking about all the baloney bravado he supposedly did that we never got to see.



I doubt he'll have to face the difficulties in the future that other Canadians will have to face with respect to his policies. He has this grand idea over this country, and in the naivety of it all, he thinks we'll be in a better Canada for it. However, idealism/ideology that a person may hold does not equate to good results. Does not equal a grasp of reality.

Iraq, like many things would have been one of those other grand ideas that Harper would have thrown Canada into had he been in power at the time. Ignatieff, who I said I wouldn't vote for because of Iraq, at least had the guts recently to say he got it wrong. That his idealism got in the way of prudent judgment over that debacle. I doubt Harper will ever admit to being wrong, and a leader who can't admit mistakes, only digs themselves (actually ourselves) deeper into those mistakes. Whether it's stupid pride or defiance in the face of better judgment or whatever else it might be (ideology?), such foolish obstinacy only hurts the country in the end. Again, Iraq anyone?

A good political leader knows what we need. Rather than only understands what we want, and at worst, like Harper himself, only understands more what HE wants - for us. That is not a leader for the people. It is more a leader over the people.

Too many of those in the world. Does Canada really need one?
 

Cobalt_Kid

Council Member
Feb 3, 2007
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Harper reflects a trend that seems to be becoming the norm in the world, leaders that don't reflect the needs of their constituents. Global and international policy are being formulated and driven by people who were never elected and aren't really accountable to anyone, the US lumber lobby is just one examlpe of this. The energy sector is even worse for this.

All the conservative rhetoric about making the federal government more transparent and accountable was just that. We have less access to important information about actions that are being taken in our name and will have a huge impact in our lives in the future.
 

YoungJoonKim

Electoral Member
Aug 19, 2007
690
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Well, I will just sit on my desk and pray that I will move to Britain or France when I graduate from university.
I don't need another George W. Bush.