Love Of Our Neighbour

[RomSpaceKnight]

Don't forget Sanctus is in sales not management.

 

[canadarocks]

Don't forget Sanctus is in sales not management.

That is clever! I like your sense of humour

 

[canadarocks]

I don't hate the church...I find myself offended by some of it's teachings, and get frustrated when people say "that's just the way it is!". I'm tired of sanctioned gay bashing that is passed off and defended as okay because it comes from the church. But, brings.

Why would you be offended by the Catholic teachings if you're not Catholic? I'm not Catholic and there teachings don't bother me. They only apply to Catholics anyway. also, from my observation, most Catholics themselves don't apply their own teachings to their lives. And even if they do, it still dosen't fry my cookies since they are free to make whatever rules they want for their club.

 

[canadarocks]

St. John Vianney​

All of our religion is but a false religion and all our virtues are mere illusions and we ourselves are only hypocrites in the sight of God if we have not that universal charity for everyone, for the good and for the bad, for the poor people as well as for the rich, for all those who do us harm as much as for those who do us good.​

No, my dear brethren, there is no virtue which will let us know better whether we are the children or God than charity.​

The obligation we have to love our neighbour is so important that Jesus Christ put it into a Commandment which He placed immediately after that by which He commands us to love Him with all our hearts. He tells us that all the law and the prophets are included in this commandment to love our neighbour. Yes, my dear brethren, we must regard this obligation as the most universal, the most necessary and the most essential to religion and to our salvation. In fulfilling this Commandment, we are fulfilling all others. St. Paul tells us that the other Commandments forbid us to commit adultery, robbery, injuries, false testimonies. If we love our neighbour, we shall not do any of these things because the love we have for our neighbour would not allow us to do him any harm.​

Hard to argue with this post. don't know exactly who this John guy is, but hasn't he written a mouthful of wisdom here! And it applies really to anyone, not just RC's. You know, I know allot of people who belong to this or that religion, christian or otherwise. they spend a great deal of time telling you what their faith believes, but like this post suggests, dosen't mean a thing if they aren't living by its principals.

 

[sanctus]

Hard to argue with this post. don't know exactly who this John guy is, but hasn't he written a mouthful of wisdom here! And it applies really to anyone, not just RC's. You know, I know allot of people who belong to this or that religion, christian or otherwise. they spend a great deal of time telling you what their faith believes, but like this post suggests, dosen't mean a thing if they aren't living by its principals.

That is the whole point of the message, namely, that faith to be real must be faith practiced in the heart and in the day to day activities of the person. It is not something you should turn off and on at will.

 

[sanctus]

Don't forget Sanctus is in sales not management.

Yeah!!!! And the pay in sales sucks:-( I think I'm going on strike!!! Picture priests and nuns with picket signs outside the Catholic Churches this Sunday!!! heh heh heh

 

[sanctus]

Why would you be offended by the Catholic teachings if you're not Catholic? I'm not Catholic and there teachings don't bother me. They only apply to Catholics anyway. also, from my observation, most Catholics themselves don't apply their own teachings to their lives. And even if they do, it still dosen't fry my cookies since they are free to make whatever rules they want for their club.

Thank you. I always wonder that myself. Allot of people who have this or that issue with Church doctrine never seem to be members of the Church!

 

[MikeyDB]

Anything that reeks of the hypocrisy of the Roman Catholic Church is fair game. Love thy neighbor unless he's homosexual....love thy neighbor unless he's a pagan and doesn't embrace the theist beliefs...love thy neighbor unless he's a helpless pedophile who works under the aegis of the RC church who will hide him from criminal prosecution...love thy neighbor unless he's a Jew ...Love thy neighbor unless he's talking about birth control...love thy neighbor unless he's an advocate of enuthanasia...love thy neighbor....the list of who one is to love and not love as represented by the Roman Catholic Church if morphed into an amusement ride would resemble a roller coaster...

And by the way, I understand that Sanctus didn't write the policies of the Roman Catholic Church he and others are simply agents of that organization...just like Mullahs and pagans...but hey ....

 

[sanctus]

Anything that reeks of the hypocrisy of the Roman Catholic Church is fair game. Love thy neighbor unless he's homosexual....love thy neighbor unless he's a pagan and doesn't embrace the theist beliefs...love thy neighbor unless he's a helpless pedophile who works under the aegis of the RC church who will hide him from criminal prosecution...love thy neighbor unless he's a Jew ...Love thy neighbor unless he's talking about birth control...love thy neighbor unless he's an advocate of enuthanasia...love thy neighbor....the list of who one is to love and not love as represented by the Roman Catholic Church if morphed into an amusement ride would resemble a roller coaster...

And by the way, I understand that Sanctus didn't write the policies of the Roman Catholic Church he and others are simply agents of that organization...just like Mullahs and pagans...but hey ....

So is it safe to assume I should not anticipate you joining the RCIA programme?

 

[talloola]

Anything that reeks of the hypocrisy of the Roman Catholic Church is fair game. Love thy neighbor unless he's homosexual....love thy neighbor unless he's a pagan and doesn't embrace the theist beliefs...love thy neighbor unless he's a helpless pedophile who works under the aegis of the RC church who will hide him from criminal prosecution.

I believe the catholic church has stepped up in recent years to address this problem. And, it is the
pedophile who took advantage of the catholic church by becoming a priest so they could do their
dirty deeds, and if enough of them did that, then they would have protected each other, but if you
examine how large the catholic church is, you will know that it is still a small minority.

..love thy neighbor unless he's a Jew ...Love thy neighbor unless he's talking about birth control...love thy neighbor unless he's an advocate of enuthanasia...love thy neighbor....the list of who one is to love and not love as represented by the Roman Catholic Church
We all have our different beliefs, don't we, and when we don't agree with other's beliefs it's so easy to
throw stones at them. If you truly love your neighbour, then you accept his differences and beliefs,
even though you don't practice them yourself, as is the case of the catholic church, they don't have
to change their position for others, but they do "love' them anyway, as they are, that is their belief.
I am very upset with their refusal to help the african community as they need to have "condoms" so that they can"live'", but, they should rise up and take matters into their own hands, and GET the condoms anyway,irrespective of the rules of the church, so, just because the church says "no", doesn't mean that ist he way it has to be. Just, don't ask the church to do it, they can't, but many others
can, don't stand around and "whine", do it. Do what you have to do, irrespective of the church, and
if you don't have enough intestinal fortitude to do that, then "live with it", and don't complain.

And by the way, I understand that Sanctus didn't write the policies of the Roman Catholic Church

So then, exactly what do you expect them to do. You talk as though, because the Catholic Church
say so, that is the way the world lives. It is not. It is so, for the catholics who "wish" to live that
way, and are happy with the teachings of the church.
If people really need a religion and a need to believe to get through this life, then they should have
one that fits their needs, and there are many to choose from, and those of us who don't wish to
do so, don't have to "obey" any of them.

This philosophy applies to everyone, we all differ in many ways, millions believe as the catholic
church does, so be it, I would rather think of "how much good" the church does for people.

 

[L Gilbert]

lol.

 

[snfu73]

So is is safe to assume I should not anticipate you joining the RCIA programme?

That's a pretty funny response...I like that...

 

[snfu73]

Why would you be offended by the Catholic teachings if you're not Catholic? I'm not Catholic and there teachings don't bother me. They only apply to Catholics anyway. also, from my observation, most Catholics themselves don't apply their own teachings to their lives. And even if they do, it still dosen't fry my cookies since they are free to make whatever rules they want for their club.

I was going to write a long answer to this...but, I already have explained this several times in many threads, through many posts....and, probably like must of the stuff I write, folks don't want to hear it again... But I disagree wholeheartedly that the ideas that I am against stay within the church and have no effect on people outside it. If that was true, I wouldn't have any issues. Plus, again, public forum, discussion is the name of the game.

 

[talloola]

I was going to write a long answer to this...but, I already have explained this several times in many threads, through many posts....and, probably like must of the stuff I write, folks don't want to hear it again... But I disagree wholeheartedly that the ideas that I am against stay within the church and have no effect on people outside it.

Why should the "beliefs" within the church have a big effect outside the church.

If that was true, I wouldn't have any issues.
Are you a practicing catholic, with serious issues within the church?

Plus, again, public forum, discussion is the name of the game
We all know this is a public forum, why do you keep stuffing that concept down our throats, we are
all adults here, with memories.

 

[snfu73]

I was going to write a long answer to this...but, I already have explained this several times in many threads, through many posts....and, probably like must of the stuff I write, folks don't want to hear it again... But I disagree wholeheartedly that the ideas that I am against stay within the church and have no effect on people outside it.

Why should the "beliefs" within the church have a big effect outside the church.

If that was true, I wouldn't have any issues.
Are you a practicing catholic, with serious issues within the church?

Plus, again, public forum, discussion is the name of the game
We all know this is a public forum, why do you keep stuffing that concept down our throats, we are
all adults here, with memories.

I keep bringing up the public forum thing because people keep trying to imply that I shouldn't be posting stuff...in these public forum.

And, I've answered the questions before. The catholic church...many churches fought very publicly in against the idea of gay marriage...and in the process, it hurt alot of people. Everytime I turned on the TV, there was institutionalized gay bashing. The catholic church has alot of power...we all know that. They treated Paul Martin pretty bad for his efforts that have gay marriage recognized. Like I said before, there was the whole boarding school issue, where the catholic church and others had alot of effect on a lot of lives. Still in other countries, on other continents, the policies of the Catholic church are having big effects on the AIDS epidemic, for example. Plus, just having an organization within a community that looks upon so many in the community as sinners, as heretics, and speaks out so vocally on gay issues is scary, and it hurts people. I know people will get mad at me for this, but I don't see it as much different than if a Klu Klux Klan chapter moved into a neighbourhood. They have their beliefs...it shouldn't effect us....but BOY are people going to be pissed. To have an organization in your midst that calls your friends and loved ones horrible sinners for being who they are (blacks for the Klan, gays for the Catholics) is disheartening...and it causes pain. So, I disagree that the catholic church and it's teachings do not have an effect on the community, and people outside of the church. They do.

And...I'm glad you have a memory...keep that memory alive...public forum...sharing of ideas...public place...

 

[selfactivated]

That is clever! I like your sense of humour

He's quite the cutie I must agree

 

[talloola]

I keep bringing up the public forum thing because people keep trying to imply that I shouldn't be posting stuff...in these public forum.

And, I've answered the questions before. The catholic church...many churches fought very publicly in against the idea of gay marriage...and in the process, it hurt alot of people.

I have an issue with gay marriage as well. I've been programmed all of my life re" marriage, so
the idea of two people of same gender marrying each other, seems very wierd. Gay people are a
different group than heterosexual people, so why can't "their" concept of marriage be "different", so
each group can have their own identity. I am still in the process of adapting and changing my
attitude, and I have progressed a long way, but I guess I will never feel totally comfortable about it.
I have worked hard on this ussue, in regard to my attitude, as I realize that I could have a family
member sometime, who is gay, and I want to be able to "sincerely accept" that person in my own
mind.

Everytime I turned on the TV, there was institutionalized gay bashing. The catholic church has alot of power...we all know that. They treated Paul Martin pretty bad for his efforts that have gay marriage recognized.
I agree with the catholic church on this issue, and the expression "gay bashing" is "just" yours, and
others who disagree with people who have an issue with the gay lifestyle. The catholic church doesn't believe
in the gay lifestyle, but they do not "ban" gay people from being practicing catholics.

Like I said before, there was the whole boarding school issue, where the catholic church and others had alot of effect on a lot of lives. Still in other countries, on other continents, the policies of the Catholic church are having big effects on the AIDS epidemic, for example. Plus, just having an organization within a community that looks upon so many in the community as sinners
I don't think we should expect everyone/groups to conform to "our" beliefs, just because we think
they should.

, as heretics, and speaks out so vocally on gay issues is scary, and it hurts people. I know people will get mad at me for this, but I don't see it as much different than if a Klu Klux Klan chapter moved into a neighbourhood.
The positive side of the church is, the enormous help they give to people, don't recall the Klu Klux
Klan doing that. They are a selfish biggoted group, who as individuals spout their own religious
beliefs, which could be "any" church I would think.

They have their beliefs...it shouldn't effect us..
That's right, what about the millions of catholics who agree and believe in their church.
..but BOY are people going to be pissed. To have an organization in your midst that calls your friends and loved ones horrible sinners for being who they are
The word "horrible" is yours. They believe that practicing the gay life is "sinning"., and so do
millions of catholics and others.

(blacks for the Klan, gays for the Catholics) is disheartening...and it causes pain. So, I disagree that the catholic church and it's teachings do not have an effect on the community, and people outside of the church. They do.
That is because people "like you" and others allow their beliefs to bother you. They don't prevent
a gay person from being catholic and attending church. A gay catholic has to "either want his
religion/belief so much that he will abstain from sex, or, change to a different religion which does
accept his lifestyle, or just do what he wants to do, and ignore all the rules.
I am not a believer, and I am not bothered in any way by the catholic church's beliefs, that is their
business, and their followers, and, if I was a catholic who believed, I would figure out if I wanted
to continue in that church or not, simple.

And...I'm glad you have a memory...keep that memory alive...public forum...sharing of ideas.
In a respectful manner.

 

[snfu73]

Well...here is the thing...the gay lifestyle. Homosexuality is not a choice. Infact, sexuality as a whole is fluid...it's a range. It's not either, or...there is a range...from absolute straight to absolute gay and all combinations in between outside. Anyway, it's one thing for the catholic church, or any church for that matter to rail against gay marriage within the church...it's another thing altogether to rail against it outside the church and attempt to influence laws governing it. I don't like the idea that any organization within this country could refuse to marry a gay couple...to me, that's the same kind of discrimination that people would call out about if an organization said it would not marry an interracial couple. But...I also think, fine, thats the way it is going to be, and I think most in the gay community accept that, but don't like it. I think the ways of the church have put alot of parents into a bad situation, where they feel torn between their childrens sexuality and the teachings of the church that they love and have grown up in, etc., and I think that is terribly unfortunate. But, again, that's the way it is at the moment. However, I do look at what people say about how this is the way the church has been for 2000 years and it ain't going to change, and I completely disagree with that assessment. There are calls for change within the church. And hopefully, the church leaders will hear those calls and reassess the teachings, and question things. And when I presented ideas and are told that it's just the way it is...I ask...why not question? Why is it this way. Plus, I mean, I think there are even worse religions or idealogies out there than the Catholic church...but the truth is the Catholic church is massive and it has alot of power and it has alot of clout and it has alot of effect outside of it. And if people within it aren't questioning or open to ideas, or open to reassessing how they interpret the bible...what is that going to mean for the rest of society? And going back to the gay issue, how much of the churches teachings help to perpetuate homophobic sentiments and gay bashing outside of the church? How many people have to go through abuse and ridicule and bashing because of who they are...because they are who they are, and as long as they act like themselves, they are sinners? One of the groups that encounters the most violence in society is the GLBT community. How is that perpetuated by the attitudes of the church...how much does that validate homophobic or abusive behaviour within society? These are many of my concerns. If the catholic church was a little fringe enclave, well, that would be different. Who is that nutbar in the US...the God Hates Fags guy? I can't remember his name at the moment...wait...Phelps...Fred Phelps? Something like that? He can be ignored. He can easily be ignored. He as little power, little influence, little anything. He represents a tiny church that is mostly his family. He says horribly offensive things, and is a complete jerk...but, he can be ignored. The catholic church, however...it can't be ignored quite as easily, you know? It has influence, it has power, it has money, it is the catholic church, afterall. Anyway, again, a long rant, again, expressing my feelings. I don't think I am being disrespectful. I think I am being truthful. I am explaining what I see, the effects of what I see, my frustration over what I see, my concerns, my disappointments, etc. If what I am saying is percieved as disrespectful, I respectfully disagree.

 

[canadarocks]

Well...here is the thing...the gay lifestyle. Homosexuality is not a choice. Infact, sexuality as a whole is fluid...it's a range. It's not either, or...there is a range...from absolute straight to absolute gay .

Well..here is the thing..this thread is not about homosexuality or how you feel the Catholic Church is evil for not supporting it.
And here's another thing. I'm not religious, belong to no church,(do believe in God though) and do not think that homosexuality is normal and/or natural and very much am against homosexual "marriages". so who do you blame for my attitude? The agnostics?


What I personally have noticed is that on every thread Sanctus is on, or starts, you bring up homosexuality. dosen't matter what the topic is, you throw in the RC Church and homosexuals.

Yes, they have allot of power and influence. And why not? All kinds of religious groups have influence. Big shock.
And why shouldn't they express their views and lobby for their positions? Every other blessed group in the country does.

And if you're doing a numbers thing, here's a shocker for you, over 60% of Canadians claim they're RC, so maybe we should not be surprised at the influence of the RC church in this country.

 

[talloola]

Well...here is the thing...the gay lifestyle. Homosexuality is not a choice. Infact, sexuality as a whole is fluid...it's a range. It's not either, or...there is a range...from absolute straight to absolute gay and all combinations in between outside.

OK, let's start there, in my opinion, all of the "range" as you call it, is all "choice", and the only
area that isn't choice is. Gay or straight. So, all the "range" in my mind, is "just" adventure, play,
nautiness, wierdness, strange behavior, and others. What people do inside of their sexual orienation is their own "choice", so lets not include that in "normal" behavior. That is my "view", take it or
leave it.

Anyway, it's one thing for the catholic church, or any church for that matter to rail against gay marriage within the church...it's another thing altogether to rail against it outside the church and attempt to influence laws governing it. I don't like the idea that any organization within this country could refuse to marry a gay couple...to me, that's the same kind of discrimination that people would call out about if an organization said it would not marry an interracial couple.
I don't see a gay couple at all similar to an interracial couple.

But...I also think, fine, thats the way it is going to be, and I think most in the gay community accept that, but don't like it. I think the ways of the church have put alot of parents into a bad situation, where they feel torn between their childrens sexuality and the teachings of the church that they love and have grown up in, etc., and I think that is terribly unfortunate. But, again, that's the way it is at the moment. However, I do look at what people say about how this is the way the church has been for 2000 years and it ain't going to change, and I completely disagree with that assessment.
And, so do many, but the majority of catholics seem to be OK with the teachings, and who are we
to interfere with that. GO elsewhere if you don't like it.

There are calls for change within the church. And hopefully, the church leaders will hear those calls and reassess the teachings, and question things. And when I presented ideas and are told that it's just the way it is...I ask...why not question? Why is it this way. Plus, I mean, I think there are even worse religions or idealogies out there than the Catholic church...but the truth is the Catholic church is massive and it has alot of power and it has alot of clout and it has alot of effect outside of it. And if people within it aren't questioning or open to ideas, or open to reassessing how they interpret the bible..
They don't seem to be at all confused about the "interpretation" of the bible, it is others outside the
church who trying to see it that way, and of course there will be some within the church, but they
have to make their own decisions.

.what is that going to mean for the rest of society? And going back to the gay issue, how much of the churches teachings help to perpetuate homophobic sentiments and gay bashing outside of the church?
I don't think people who agree with the teachings of the church are "gay bashing" as you love to put it.
Makes the church look like they are spouting all over the place that gay's are "awful"., don't see it
that way.

How many people have to go through abuse and ridicule and bashing because of who they are...because they are who they are, and as long as they act like themselves,
That is done to them by all sorts of people, other than the catholic church.

they are sinners? One of the groups that encounters the most violence in society is the GLBT community. How is that perpetuated by the attitudes of the church...how much does that validate homophobic or abusive behaviour within society? These are many of my concerns. If the catholic church was a little fringe enclave, well, that would be different.
I see that in the opposite, as the catholic followers are in the millions, they should be allowed to
have their own beliefs, and not be harrassed for that.
Who is that nutbar in the US...the God Hates Fags guy? I can't remember his name at the moment...wait...Phelps...Fred Phelps? Something like that? He can be ignored. He can easily be ignored. He as little power, little influence, little anything. He represents a tiny church that is mostly his family. He says horribly offensive things, and is a complete jerk...but, he can be ignored.
But, he isn't is he. He is drawing lots of attention.

The catholic church, however...it can't be ignored quite as easily, you know? It has influence, it has power, it has money, it is the catholic church, afterall. Anyway, again, a long rant, again, expressing my feelings. I don't think I am being disrespectful. I think I am being truthful. I am explaining what I see, the effects of what I see, my frustration over what I see, my concerns, my disappointments, etc. If what I am saying is percieved as disrespectful,

No, they can't be ignored, but life isn't perfect, and you expect them to drop their rules regarding
the gay lifestyle and make a complete 360 and say living a gay lifestyle is good and OK with them.
It won't happen, and can you imagine the uprising withing the church if they did.. You never include
the "millions" of catholics into your statement, just the institution.