Living Christ

[MHz]

You will have to ask MHz why he posts as he does.

On this thread it is me showing you a few parts of how the KJV with a literal meaning should be taken, without a lot of deeper study until the summation is finished. You'll know that spot.

This pretty much sums you up.

I want you to say unequivocally that you support the molestation of young girls as described in the Bible's OT. Be a "man" MHZ and admit to what you believe.

You are promoting war as a way to find a wife gerr, sound like you are an ISIS commander as that seems to be their tactics. Can I submit your proposal to the ICC and let them be your new focus for the rest of you wretched life?

The Royal Law doesn't allow that sort of behavior. Too bad you ploy of get a verse from the old law as being something that was in place as being the mark of an immoral person. Kind of blew up in your face didn't it?

 

[Ludlow]

I dunno. The original post made not much sense to me and it all went downhill from there.

 

[MHz]

The time when religion heals people is part of the next phase. Think of this (and all other similar threads) as a sign that we aren't there yet.

 

[Ludlow]

Will do sir and I salute ye for it

 

[Motar]

So, how does a Christian return blessing for cursing?

By His example and empowering, Christ enables Christians to return blessing for cursing.

"I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing ... This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples." (John 15:5,8 NIV)

Conduct is important to Christ because by it we honor or deny Him.

 

[gerryh]

Again Motar, this entire thread goes to what one considers to be Gods word.

 

[MHz]

That would be written word rather than your imagination of what God said in you man written book. Which version do you reference gerr?

By His example and empowering, Christ enables Christians to return blessing for cursing.

"I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing ... This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples." (John 15:5,8 NIV)

Conduct is important to Christ because by it we honor or deny Him.

Here is the mandate for Christians to their host nation (Romans) and to other members of the Gentile world as all Gentiles are members of the same church.

Ro:13:1-11:
Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers.
For there is no power but of God:
the powers that be are ordained of God.
Whosoever therefore resisteth the power,
resisteth the ordinance of God:
and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
For rulers are not a terror to good works,
but to the evil.
Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power?
do that which is good,
and thou shalt have praise of the same:
For he is the minister of God to thee for good.
But if thou do that which is evil,
be afraid;
for he beareth not the sword in vain:
for he is the minister of God,
a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
Wherefore ye must needs be subject,
not only for wrath,
but also for conscience sake.
For for this cause pay ye tribute also:
for they are God's ministers,
attending continually upon this very thing.
Render therefore to all their dues:
tribute to whom tribute is due;
custom to whom custom;
fear to whom fear;
honour to whom honour.
Owe no man any thing,
but to love one another:
for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
For this,
Thou shalt not commit adultery,
Thou shalt not kill,
Thou shalt not steal,
Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Thou shalt not covet;
and if there be any other commandment,
it is briefly comprehended in this saying,
namely,
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Love worketh no ill to his neighbour:
therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
And that,
knowing the time,
that now it is high time to awake out of sleep:
for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

1Pe:4:12-18:
Beloved,
think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you,
as though some strange thing happened unto you:
But rejoice,
inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings;
that,
when his glory shall be revealed,
ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
If ye be reproached for the name of Christ,
happy are ye;
for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you:
on their part he is evil spoken of,
but on your part he is glorified.
But let none of you suffer as a murderer,
or as a thief,
or as an evildoer,
or as a busybody in other men's matters.
Yet if any man suffer as a Christian,
let him not be ashamed;
but let him glorify God on this behalf.
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God:
and if it first begin at us,
what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
And if the righteous scarcely be saved,
where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

The book is meant to be studies and debated, the ultimate authority on what it means is provided God.

Joh:3:25-28:
Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying.
And they came unto John,
and said unto him,
Rabbi,
he that was with thee beyond Jordan,
to whom thou barest witness,
behold,
the same baptizeth,
and all men come to him.
John answered and said,
A man can receive nothing,
except it be given him from heaven.

 

[Motar]

John 3:27 A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

Word.

 

[MHz]

Pretty interesting book isn't it?

 

[Motar]

How important to Christ is attitude/conduct towards others relative to Bible knowledge/understanding?

Great discussion. I gained much.

"As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another." (Proverbs 27:17 NIV)

Grace and peace to all.

 

[gerryh]

That would be written word rather than your imagination of what God said in you man written book. Which version do you reference gerr?


Here is the mandate for Christians to their host nation (Romans) and to other members of the Gentile world as all Gentiles are members of the same church.

Ro:13:1-11:
Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers.
For there is no power but of God:
the powers that be are ordained of God.
Whosoever therefore resisteth the power,
resisteth the ordinance of God:
and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
For rulers are not a terror to good works,
but to the evil.
Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power?
do that which is good,
and thou shalt have praise of the same:
For he is the minister of God to thee for good.
But if thou do that which is evil,
be afraid;
for he beareth not the sword in vain:
for he is the minister of God,
a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
Wherefore ye must needs be subject,
not only for wrath,
but also for conscience sake.
For for this cause pay ye tribute also:
for they are God's ministers,
attending continually upon this very thing.
Render therefore to all their dues:
tribute to whom tribute is due;
custom to whom custom;
fear to whom fear;
honour to whom honour.
Owe no man any thing,
but to love one another:
for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
For this,
Thou shalt not commit adultery,
Thou shalt not kill,
Thou shalt not steal,
Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Thou shalt not covet;
and if there be any other commandment,
it is briefly comprehended in this saying,
namely,
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Love worketh no ill to his neighbour:
therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
And that,
knowing the time,
that now it is high time to awake out of sleep:
for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

1Pe:4:12-18:
Beloved,
think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you,
as though some strange thing happened unto you:
But rejoice,
inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings;
that,
when his glory shall be revealed,
ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
If ye be reproached for the name of Christ,
happy are ye;
for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you:
on their part he is evil spoken of,
but on your part he is glorified.
But let none of you suffer as a murderer,
or as a thief,
or as an evildoer,
or as a busybody in other men's matters.
Yet if any man suffer as a Christian,
let him not be ashamed;
but let him glorify God on this behalf.
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God:
and if it first begin at us,
what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
And if the righteous scarcely be saved,
where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

The book is meant to be studies and debated, the ultimate authority on what it means is provided God.

Joh:3:25-28:
Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying.
And they came unto John,
and said unto him,
Rabbi,
he that was with thee beyond Jordan,
to whom thou barest witness,
behold,
the same baptizeth,
and all men come to him.
John answered and said,
A man can receive nothing,
except it be given him from heaven.

You just don't get it, or, you are being purposely obtuse. Nothing you have posted answered my questions. "I" know what the answer is, one that neither you nor Motar are willing to entertain.

 

[MHz]

Which Bible do you use gerr? Try to keep up.

 

[gerryh]

The same Bible my family has used from day one. KJV

 

[JLM]

The same Bible my family has used from day one. KJV

There's no talking any sense or reason into these guys- just a total waste of time.

 

[MHz]

There's no talking any sense or reason into these guys- just a total waste of time.

Yet here you are.

The same Bible my family has used from day one. KJV

You should be able to explain the dating verse from Isa:65 then. Preach away.

 

[gerryh]

You should be able to explain the dating verse from Isa:65 then. Preach away.

I would say that you best listen and rethink your blasphemous ways as you are:


Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, my servants shall eat, but ye shall be hungry: behold, my servants shall drink, but ye shall be thirsty: behold, my servants shall rejoice, but ye shall be ashamed:




You do not "preach" the Lords words. You bastardize them. You follow "man's" words and proclaim to be God our Fathers.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

The Bible was written by God to tell people what was going to happen.

He should have known better than to publish the first draft. It should have gone to rewrite to correct factual errors, fix inconsistencies, and remove immoral advice. Then you wouldn't have wasted so much time and energy trying to reconcile the irreconcilable. On what possible basis can you justify believing that "The Bible was written by God to tell people what was going to happen?" And be aware that citing the Bible in support of itself is not a valid argument, it's the fallacy of self reference. Why do you think that claim is true?

 

[MHz]

From your statements above, MHz, I understand that you consider Christ-like conduct to be the measure of a Christian.

Define Christ-like. I've already said I wouldn't intentionally sin
Even if gerr admits to reading the same text I do and claim to it being a family tradition then I wonder why I seem to be speaking some foreign language as far as 2+2=4 is received in that same order. I can made better mileage reading alone, just like anybody could have been doing by now and I didn't start reading the one with the red letters for myself until I was in my 30's, even then it was being at square one.

The are the 11 that are left from the original 12 Apostles. They were baptised on the first night of His return but they also went through the same 40 days in the wilderness that Jesus experienced after He was baptized in the River Jordan. They could not cast out some devils that Jesus could and He attributed it to fasting and prayer rather than prayer alone which is the power they were under so after the cross the 11 were as powerful as Jesus was all by himself in terms of the limitations placed on what 'power' from the 'kingdom' they were granted. Jesus could baptize with the spirit and the Apostles could only baptize with water after the cross. Jesus was the 'author' of the Acts:2 mass baptism and those people would have retained those same gifts. I can simulate that until the power goes out and then whatever is within reach is it, the rest is gone. They were on a whole different level and the words they wrote about their actual experiences is more than happens in this world by one 'christian' let alone more than 1B of 'us'

Can I implement it alone, only in thought and 'paper'. Reality is limited to distributing anything I don't personally need, I'm quite comfortable with that arrangement at the moment and the foreseeable future. If I have low expectations then not much can go wrong.

If you caught me when I was a 'believer' then I could sum it up into, 'Yes there is a plan and it is a pretty good, after exploring that plan a bit I can see areas where time can be trimmed off at the cost of 'experience' but so what. I now consider myself to be a 'firm believer' and that path may or may not have some valid shortcuts. I used the Moses verse from Luke as justification to go as far back as Moses. Basically Ge:1:1 was within my grasp as far as history and Moses is where the first big change is and Paul would be the beginning of the prophecies and a few names of the people that are classified as 'church', there is a pause that is called 'the time of the Gentiles and from 70AD the teachings would have been to the Gentiles, like the teaching that happened with the woman at Jacob's well. Took a few days and then nothing unless that is the same one Paul stated blabbling about after his conversion. Whatever happened in that time it was enough to convince some Disciples that he had all the right answers, and then some if it was to be be 'convincing' and those disciples would have reported back to the Apostles who were in Jerusalem until 70 AD and their writings after would have been to the Gentiles rather than to Jews alone as they had done until the Luke:21:24 and De:4:30 prophecies combined in that anything specific to the Jews is picked up 3 1/2 years before the return. It starts with 144,000 children scattered all over a foreign landscape and in a 'world like before the flood so we would be the ones in awe no matter how evolved we can make a few. The power they face has them give up within one hour without one shot being fired at the enemy.

It's pretty speculative just what 'help by prayer in times or tribulation' means in a literal world, right? To further that speculation I would suggest that Saul might have gotten a copy of the Gospel of Luke and read the Lord's Prayer out loud and instantly that light hit him and the change began. Daniel was the best example of connecting through prayer in the OT as most were 'tapped on the shoulder' when God wanted their attention.
That prophecy was dictated to them and Daniel asked a few questions that got a partial answer. The NT would have been a breeze as Daniel and his friends were the ones that brought all the books back into a pristine copy that exactly matched what Moses and the others 'preached'. The NT was written in flawless Greek, Peter for Matthew as it is the longest and most detailed. Peter would have been the author of the letter to the Beloved Disciple in 1John. All of that would put 'help' as being the 2 witnesses that are preventing a temple and a throne being set up in Jerusalem. The Biblical timeline allows for 3 1.2 days for that whole event from beginning to ends and then an anti-anti-anti climax that has everyone throwing their scripts to the ground. Seriously, how many versions has the sky being ripped apart and a booming voice saying, 'Whats Going On In Here?' and the 'the changes begin and are finished by the end of the same days and the 'decorating begins' so when God arrives the land is spared being melted as preparation of becoming the courtyard in the New Earth era. The Lamb isn't introduced until the Great White Throne. New Jerusalem is 1500miles wide and since the planet has been melted and then the Great White Throne and all that stuff make for more than a plateful. The 'kinder gentler' version that has Ge:1-3 and Re:20-22 as being the base for the beignning and the end. Speculation is an asscet in going in that direction as it covers the garden and the new earth so it portrays us as terra formers that naturally follow liquid water when the living is involved. I'm going to promote that immortality has more than one blessing attached. The Verse below is the living that were given immortality without tasting death. They number 1/3 of the living on the planet as the Gentiles who survive the vials, as good witnesses tend to do. If there is honor in being the first to die the let it be me because being the last one has got to hurt just a little bit more. The New Earth happens to be the universe so the planet could be a gathering place and the next Galaxy would be called Egypt and so on. The list given in Da:11 and other place would also be duplicated. This would depend on the number of people missing being alive for the 1,000 year period being equal to the number of galaxies at that time. Match that and you might be a date setter so take it from there.

Re:15:1-8:
And I saw another sign in heaven,
great and marvellous,
seven angels having the seven last plagues;
for in them is filled up the wrath of God.
And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire:
and them that had gotten the victory over the beast,
and over his image,
and over his mark,
and over the number of his name,
stand on the sea of glass,
having the harps of God.
And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God,
and the song of the Lamb,
saying,
Great and marvellous are thy works,
Lord God Almighty;
just and true are thy ways,
thou King of saints.
Who shall not fear thee,
O Lord,
and glorify thy name?
for thou only art holy:
for all nations shall come and worship before thee;
for thy judgments are made manifest.
And after that I looked,
and,
behold,
the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:
And the seven angels came out of the temple,
having the seven plagues,
clothed in pure and white linen,
and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.
And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God,
who liveth for ever and ever.
And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God,
and from his power;
and no man was able to enter into the temple,
till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

Taking Ge:3:15 into account means taking all of the other text into play so it is a long and involved discussion that doesn't appear to be over

 

[MHz]

From your statements above, MHz, I understand that you consider Christ-like conduct to be the measure of a Christian.

Now That there is a bit of breathing room, how about the time and place is agreed on as far as conduct is concerned. In my personal view the 7 letters give me 14 different possibilities of just who is in the local 'congregation' and if 'conduct unbecoming' puts him on the other side of the isle means he is called the 'poor' if I read that 'do not eat meals with known sinners' rule as when the sinners are taken away to be part of the feast then those around then are taken away also. A close examination of the OT states that even standing beside Daniel won't help you at the time of that (might be different OT Saint)

Being a know sinner is the leaven that corrupts the whole loaf and not something that is rewarded or there is no use in having the 10 Commandments as Law. If known and repeated sinners are allowed to remain part of the meetings then the fate is already spelled out in black and white and plain language is used for a plain people.

7X70 is the number of times you are supposed forgive a brother is one of the 'suggestions'. It doesn't say if that is from each member of the congregation as it might be the total count with 7 lashes by 70 different members or something along that line.
A few more references will point to you as bringing up 'an issue' with the sinner (leaven) is private first, no correction then you can take it to an elder and then a step or two past that and the judgment would have to be rendered. If those steps don't get followed then it is up to the 'victim' to get out of Dodge. At that point revenge would be justified but being a good Christian you let Christ know about the issue and the rest will be taken care of when the sorting takes place. Of those 14 different relationships a man can have with God is divided into good and bad. There is nothing that demands I go past a certain limit as far as how much interaction goes on between us. The congregation can be a bit clicky in that respect. I'm pretty sure I'm on the repented side of the hot and cold church and membership does have it's advantages.

My loyalties would be towards the repented from the other churches before it would be towards willful sinners in close proximity. That is in the 'lose a member to save the body' sermon and perhaps a parable or two can be applied to that same concept.

If prayer doesn't save you then God will have another for supper and it's a very big table. The resurrected ones whose names are read off in the book of life verses in Re:10 are the shepherds (1,000 year material) and the much larger group left behind is the flock they will be put in charge of, for a very long time. There are enough instances that show what has a beginning also has an ending, both clearly defined.

At this point you might want to say, 'This should be interesting.'

I would agree, MHz. Is understanding enough or is the biblical encounter supposed to transform in some way?

If the beginning and end of this particular earth is in focus the the summation I mentioned earlier fits in nicely, Ge:1-3 to explain how the dust got here and how the breath of life got here and a few verses that mention that something went wrong with plan "A". Re:20 picks it up when the needed correction have been completed and the 'trial run' is over and it is time for the main race of the day which has mankind entering into the universe as immortals and sinless as individuals that have the history of people like Adam and Eve and their child, Etc.
That makes salvation universal.
However, . . we are in a position that we can effect if we are part of the group that sees the 1,000 year reign from the land of the living or the land of the dead as we are in the group that could be closing up the bruise to the serpents head that is as literal as the cross and as active as the era before, when the sons of God started 'not caring' for anything to do with God. That makes the transition from gathering via faith (that the Bible was a book that told a story, a literal story) to one that would have been available during the time before the cross when Jesus kind of melted into the crowd a time or two. The Temple in Re:4 is the one that replaced the one the Apostles left in 70AD and that temple is closed on the day the 7th trump sounds as that is the day repenting no longer works as your path out of tribulation. Woes one and two are called tribulation on the inhabitants on the earth because 1/3 of them are destined to die during that time.
Great tribulation is the 3rd woe and it is in the form of the 7 vials being poured out and 2/3 of the living on the planet die within a few hours and then end up staying awake for the next 1,000 years as an extra that makes their stay in the grave just a bit worse than anybody else sent to the there as their stay is seen as a blink of an eye kind of thing.
The 144,000 see it from the mountain top Moses and Elias were on and the Gentiles wander in from across the planet with their stories about the desolated cities.
So ends the sermon, my actual world works more like the below kind of place.

Considering the Jeremiah:25 determinations also involves places to the north I would be 'amused' if the swords into plow shears was actually snow-plow shears as far as karma and Canada goes. Global warming to the south is a good time to look at selling Eskimo Ice to some, thirsty for fresh water, Mexicans with lots of dollars since their community housing grant came through. I though growing hay was slacker than growing cheese.
How much more slacker is it to grow ice in an ice-age? (Canadians votes only please as the customers are 'to the south mostly').

Be a man Harper, do the speech in CanCun, jump off the low board into the pool of tepid water and sit under an umbrella with a lap top you can never shut off and a jug of your favorite and explain just when you knew things were going south. . . . . Israel is already covered, they told the US a long time ago they had enough weapons and the story goes that it was more or none. Which would you choose?
As your luck would have it room and board and your bar tab at that same place is your entire pension, along with Wally the ditch digger from SomeVille AB, you lucky, lucky guy.

Word.

WORD, it is like GOD has more authority than God, or god as is written in the OT KJV1611 Edition.
The BRANCH is also a holy term that is referenching Christ's tenple on earth for the 1,000 year reign. as is polished shaft as it is the arrow that is missing from the 1st seal prophecy and the rider worth the crown of gold. God's crown is a simple band of gold. He is remembered for what he does rather than how he dresses..

Zec:3:8:
Hear now,
O Joshua the high priest,
thou,
and thy fellows that sit before thee:
for they are men wondered at:
for,
behold,
I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH.

Isa:49:2:
And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword;
in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me,
and made me a polished shaft;
in his quiver hath he hid me;

The OT Saints didn't have the authority to 'empower' anybody. The cross was the completion of the heel bruise from Ge:3:15, everything after that was geared to the beginning and the completion of the other bruise. Acts:10 after Peter is told to preach to Gentiles is the first members of the flock that will become the church. After the last writer of scripture died the book was the tool used to gather people so the word of God went from vocal teachers to reading their actual sermons. For this group the blinders can be taken off.

 

[darkbeaver]

The Lords word in such volume hath strucken me dumb.