Live in french in Montréal

[Machjo]

Joual is imposed on nobody - and varies from pillar to post - but is the language you'll encounter pretty much everywhere beyond the lawyers office. Speak "lawyer French" and you'll get about the same cold shoulder and lousy service as you would if you spoke English

Again, Curious CDN wasn't talking about joual in that post either. He was talking about the principle if imposing a common language.

Every successful human organization worldwide, whether it is a business, an NGO, a government, or an intergovernmental organization, imposes a language on its members.

The problem is when it imposes it on its non-members. If the Québec Government merely imposed French on itself, that would have been perfectly acceptable since as an organization, it still needs a common language.

really ?

English people represent only 13% of Montréal population and less than 10% of Québec....

Exactly. So why can't the other 85% insist that the government have only one official language to save the taxpayer money. That has nothing to do with the language of business though.

I would oppose two official languages in Toronto due to the cost of translation imposed on the taxpayer. But again, what does that have to do with private business?

 

[Queb]

Do you really think that english is the same all over the world ? You never been to Texas, North Carolina or Louisianna to beleive that !

But it's true that english in canada is pretty much standard with no real particularity.

This is due to the absence of an original culture to the ROC. In fact the ROC has no culture, no traditions, no real history or any founding elements. It is a non-identity area..

 

[Curious Cdn]

22% of the Canadian population are now native French speakers and the fraction contimpnues to fall. So, at what threshold, by your logic do we suspend Francophone language rights because they do not reflect the reality of Canada and North America? It's sonewhere between 22% and 13%, apparently and with the collapse of the Quebec birth rate, that line is drawing up fast.

 

[Queb]

22% of the Canadian population are now native French speakers and the fraction contimpnues to fall. So, at what threshold, by your logic do we suspend Francophone language rights because they do not reflect the reality of Canada and North America? It's sonewhere between 22% and 13%, apparently and with the collapse of the Quebec birth rate, that line is drawing up fast.

This is an argument of the sovereignist ;-)

 

[Curious Cdn]

Do you really think that english is the same all over the world ? You never been to Texas, North Carolina or Louisianna to beleive that !

But it's true that english in canada is pretty much standard with no real particularity.

This is due to the absence of an original culture to the ROC. In fact the ROC has no culture, no traditions, no real history or any founding elements. It is a non-identity area..

...definitely a fascist ...

We are lesser than you because ..

This is an argument of the sovereignist ;-)

You will not be allowed to separate.

 

[Queb]

...definitely a fascist ...

We are lesser than you because ..

hahaha

You will not be allowed to separate.

we don't need your authorization ;-)

 

[petros]

It's not up to the French. Injuns and only the Injuns.

 

[Machjo]

Do you really think that english is the same all over the world ? You never been to Texas, North Carolina or Louisianna to beleive that !

But it's true that english in canada is pretty much standard with no real particularity.

This is due to the absence of an original culture to the ROC. In fact the ROC has no culture, no traditions, no real history or any founding elements. It is a non-identity area..

Due to the lack of a language Accademy, English variants are even worse than French ones! That's why it is estimated that 15% of fatal air crashes are caused by linguistic misunderstandings. English is a terrible language for communications in essential and emergency services.

And you're wrong to say English has no culture in Canada. It has a culture. But because most speak it as a second language, it's more of an auxiliary culture than a national culture.

I think this is what can contribute to significant cultural misunderstandings.

Many English Canadians don't use English within their isolated local communities IR among close friends and family. They use English in their travels, at work, with strangers, and on mass media.

So for them, English culture is an auxiliary culture.

Many Quebecers mistakenly believe that because English Canadians speak only one official language, they are monolingual. They are officially monolingual, but unofficially bilingual in another language except for the old stock English.

In that sense, English Canadians are far more bilingual than Quebecers realise, but just not in French.

Most French speakers speak French as a first language and so treat it as an ethnonational language. That is one reason perhaps that English Canadians are more tolerant if different accents.

 

[Curious Cdn]

hahaha





we don't need your authorization ;-)

You need the authorization of everyone on this continent and it is not fortgcoming. If you force the issue, the result will likely be military defeat and the loss of all of your Canadian consititutional protection. The First Nations people will legitimately claim back most of your territory.

The Americans will not stand for another Cuba at their doorstep and Canadians may decide that the entity "Canada" is worth fighting for, after all.

You have as much independance right now as you are ever going to get ...and it is a considerable amount. That does not give you the freedom to stomp out the human rights of your minoritities.

 

[Queb]

Due to the lack of a language Accademy, English variants are even worse than French ones! That's why it is estimated that 15% of fatal air crashes are caused by linguistic misunderstandings. English is a terrible language for communications in essential and emergency services.

And you're wrong to say English has no culture in Canada. It has a culture. But because most speak it as a second language, it's more of an auxiliary culture than a national culture.

I think this is what can contribute to significant cultural misunderstandings.

Many English Canadians don't use English within their isolated local communities IR among close friends and family. They use English in their travels, at work, with strangers, and on mass media.

So for them, English culture is an auxiliary culture.

Many Quebecers mistakenly believe that because English Canadians speak only one official language, they are monolingual. They are officially monolingual, but unofficially bilingual in another language except for the old stock English.

In that sense, English Canadians are far more bilingual than Quebecers realise, but just not in French.

Most French speakers speak French as a first language and so treat it as an ethnonational language. That is one reason perhaps that English Canadians are more tolerant if different accents.

Stereotype for stereotype ....

come on... you understood I am sure

You need the authorization of evryone on this vontinenyot and it is not fortgcoming. If you force the ussue, the result will likely be military defeat znd the loss of all of your Canadian consititutional protection.

The Americans will not stand for another Cuba at their doorstep and Canadians may decide that the entity "Canada" is worth fighting for, after all.

You have as much independance right now as you are ever going to get ...and it is a considerable amount. That does not give you the freedom to stomp out the human rights of your minoritities.

oh... you fall in the old phantasm of canadian orangist

stop... I am afraid

 

[Machjo]

It's not up to the French. Injuns and only the Injuns.

Given the Treaties, there is much truth to that. If Québec wants to separate, it will have no choice but to first win the indigenous peoples over to their side. Not an impossible task, but definitely an uphill battle. The indigenous peoples will exploit the Treaties for all they are worth, and rightfully so.

Again, I am generalising, but in comparative terms, there is truth to it.

 

[Curious Cdn]

Stereotype for stereotype ....

come on... you understood I am sure



oh... you fall in the old phantasm of canadian orangist

stop... I am afraid

You are a fascist.

 

[Machjo]

However, the more auxiliary quality if English Canadian culture also makes it less stable. If people speak another language as their ethnic language and English as an auxiliary language, then they would have no qualms about replacing English by another auxiliary language according to circumstances. That might explain why Anglos in Richmond have failed to impose English on Chinese shops.

You are a fascist.

Ad hominem.

 

[Queb]

As hominem.

let it go. It just prove my case.

 

[Machjo]

let it go. It just prove my case.

What case is that?

Again, I think Montreal and Toronto are very different.

Most English speakers in Toronto speak it as a second language.

Most French speakers in Montreal speak it as a first language.

Si in Toronto, English is an auxiliary culture. In Montreal, French is a national culture. So while French Mintrealers will feel more strongly about promoting French, English Torontonians would not shed a tear over the loss if English except for the old stock English Torontonians who are an extremely small minority if Toronto.

Again, probably more people speak French as a mother tongue in Montreal than English in Toronto. English is just a common second language in Toronto.

 

[lone wolf]

Again, Curious CDN wasn't talking about joual in that post either. He was talking about the principle if imposing a common language.

Every successful human organization worldwide, whether it is a business, an NGO, a government, or an intergovernmental organization, imposes a language on its members.

The problem is when it imposes it on its non-members. If the Québec Government merely imposed French on itself, that would have been perfectly acceptable since as an organization, it still needs a common language.

Seeing as how scrolling back is too technical when red herring becomes a means to extract foot from mouth or substitute for knowing what you're talking about, here is the quote that started your tizzy:

...By the way, the National language in Québec is french only....

Note it is not Curious CDN posting nor is there a reference to Bill 101 anywhere. Please stick to the facts. Nobody wants to debate your imagination

 

[Queb]

Note it is not Curious CDN posting nor is there a reference to Bill 101 anywhere. Please stick to the facts. Nobody wants to debate your imagination

Educate yourself. I hope you read french.

Le français, langue officielle au Québec depuis 25 ans - Secrétariat à la politique linguistique

Québec, le 30 juillet 1999 – Le 31 juillet 1974 entrait en vigueur la Loi sur la langue officielle, projet de loi piloté par le ministre François Cloutier et adopté par l’Assemblée nationale sous le gouvernement libéral de monsieur Robert Bourassa. Pour la première fois, une loi reconnaissait le français comme langue officielle du Québec. S’inspirant des recommandations de la Commission Gendron qui, de 1968 à 1972, avait scruté la situation de la langue française au Québec et des travaux de l’Office de la langue française de 1970 à 1974, cette loi a identifié les secteurs où il était nécessaire que la loi intervienne, notamment l’accès à l’école de langue anglaise, les entreprises, le commerce et les affaires. La Commission Gendron avait identifié ces domaines comme ceux où la situation de la langue française était déficiente et où un redressement s’imposait. Déclarer le français, langue officielle au Québec, a été et demeure toujours le fondement de la revalorisation de la langue française au Québec.

La Charte de la langue française, proposée par le gouvernement du Parti québécois de monsieur René Lévesque et adoptée par l’Assemblée nationale le 26 août 1977, s’est inspirée de la Loi sur la langue officielle pour généraliser l’usage du français dans tous les domaines de la vie publique.

 

[Machjo]

Québec was right in adopting a policy of official monolingualism. Other provinces, territories, and municipalities should follow its example.

But when the official language extends beyond the official language if government administration without good reason, it crosses a line.

 

[Queb]

Québec was right in adopting a policy of official monolingualism. Other provinces, territories, and municipalities should follow its example.

It is. All federated states have their official language. All english only expect for Quebec, french only and NB 2 languages, french and english.

 

[lone wolf]

Educate yourself. I hope you read french.

Are you another of those silly people who think all Quebeckers understand each other? Go ahead.... I dare ya: Speak your "official" French in a place where slang dominates (or Sturgeon Falls "Frenglish" is more common than lawyers