Lifeguard fights for right to wear hijab swimsuit

Praxius

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Dec 18, 2007
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No surprising this is in Quebec:

http://www.thechronicleherald.ca/Canada/1072093.html

MONTREAL (CP) — A Montreal lifeguard has filed a human rights complaint against a local YMCA after the club told her she couldn’t wear her hijab on duty.

The 21-year-old woman has been swapping her traditional Muslim headscarf at the poolside for a "burkini," a swimsuit that covers everything but the face, hands and feet.
The Montreal YMCA said the hijab puts lifeguards at risk from the grabbing hands of panicked swimmers in rescue situations.

Oh bullsh*t.... it was never an issue back in the 40's and 50's where women wern't allowed to expose anything above their ankles.... now it's suddenly a safety hazzard because someone might hang onto it?

As a lifeguard, isn't that the damn point? To give them something to hang onto while you get them out?

Damn, if that's a hazzard, then we should get rid of other swimming attire and go commando..... idiots.... what a piss poor excuse.

Is there such a thing as a Martial Limitation for swimming outfits? No..... hell, I can dress up like ronald macdonald and go swimming if I wanted to.... this is just lame.

Before reaching its decision, the Y sought advice from the Lifesaving Society, an organization that oversees safety and lifeguarding.

The lifesaving group suggested the YMCA consider the burkini, which has been approved for use by beach lifeguards who work in the powerful surfs of Australia.

"Based on their research, our estimation at this time is if it’s good in Australia, why won’t it be good here?" Lifesaving Society’s general manager Raynald Hawkins said Thursday.

Ding ding... exactly.... it's just plain prejudice because they don't want people coming in and seeing that they have a Muslim looking out for their safety....

Hawkins said the lifeguard, who has not released her name, contacted him a week after he heard from the YMCA.

He told her the society merely suggested the burkini.

"For us, we don’t have any specific position," Hawkins said.

"This is a tool, this is a kind of bathing suit you can use if you want."

YMCA Montreal spokeswoman Katia Bouchard confirmed details of a report published in Montreal La Presse, but said the group would not grant interviews Thursday on the subject.

The report said the lifeguard, who converted to Islam last September, has been working at the Y for three years.

I guess looking Muslim hurts their french culture or something.
 

s_lone

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Using this story to take a jab at Quebec is pretty lame... Why can't you just take that story for what it is? That could happen anywhere.
 

Praxius

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I'd have thought a valid reason for keeping swimgear to a minimal level would be less drag/faster rescue. Other than that I can't see why anyone couldn't wear a clown costume or something just as odd if they so desired.

True, but if that was a valid reason, then eveybody being a lifeguard would be forced to wear speedos and bikinis..... and although even I might find that visually appealing, I don't see a practicallity for it.

I mean, we have various types of swim wear: one-piece, two, boxer shorts, etc.... I don't see the difference between a one-piece bathing suit compared to what she wishes to wear, besides exposed legs and arms.

Her head and hair is covered, just like a typical swimming cap..... I just don't get it.
 

Praxius

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Using this story to take a jab at Quebec is pretty lame... Why can't you just take that story for what it is? That could happen anywhere.

But it didn't, and the majority of these situations involving muslims wanting to wear their hijabs have mostly, if not all, have been in Quebec.

It's not a jab, it's a statistic.
 

s_lone

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I'd have thought a valid reason for keeping swimgear to a minimal level would be less drag/faster rescue. Other than that I can't see why anyone couldn't wear a clown costume or something just as odd if they so desired.

You can wear a spiderman suit if it makes you happy. But when you're working in a job with safety issues, safety comes before individual clothing demands...

It's like that story about Sikhs who worked as construction workers but didn't want to wear helmets because they had to take off their turbans... AS far as i'm concerned they can find another job if they're not willing to respect the safety codes.
 

L Gilbert

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True, but if that was a valid reason, then eveybody being a lifeguard would be forced to wear speedos and bikinis..... and although even I might find that visually appealing, I don't see a practicallity for it.
It actually is valid. It is just that politics seems to have gotten a foothold in the matter. A lot of things should happen but don't, even if there are valid reasons for them. Conversely, a lot of things happen even if there are no valid reasons for them (Bush's war in Iraq sprung to mind as I types that: besides this ridiculous thing over what people wear as they save lives).

I mean, we have various types of swim wear: one-piece, two, boxer shorts, etc.... I don't see the difference between a one-piece bathing suit compared to what she wishes to wear, besides exposed legs and arms.

Her head and hair is covered, just like a typical swimming cap..... I just don't get it.
It does seem nonsensical alright.
 

s_lone

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But it didn't, and the majority of these situations involving muslims wanting to wear their hijabs have mostly, if not all, have been in Quebec.

It's not a jab, it's a statistic.

hmm... maybe you can back this up a bit... I remember a case about hijab wearing in soccer. But anything else I remember has to do with hijab controversy in schools.

Of course, there's been serious debate in Quebec over the right to wear the hijab in school. But I don't think there's any shame in debating these issues. Secularism of public education vs. individual rights is something to talk about, not ignore. And it can be a very tricky subject. Why would you ask the typical white anglo-saxon kid to take off his baseball cap in class while the muslim girl can keep her hijab?
 

Praxius

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You can wear a spiderman suit if it makes you happy. But when you're working in a job with safety issues, safety comes before individual clothing demands...

It's like that story about Sikhs who worked as construction workers but didn't want to wear helmets because they had to take off their turbans... AS far as i'm concerned they can find another job if they're not willing to respect the safety codes.

But:

"The lifesaving group suggested the YMCA consider the burkini, which has been approved for use by beach lifeguards who work in the powerful surfs of Australia.

"Based on their research, our estimation at this time is if it’s good in Australia, why won’t it be good here?" Lifesaving Society’s general manager Raynald Hawkins said Thursday."


Apparently this outfit isn't an issue in other countries, and considdering Australia has more to worry about with sharks then we usually do, I think wearing it while watching over a small pool area wouldn't be that big of a concern.
 

L Gilbert

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You can wear a spiderman suit if it makes you happy. But when you're working in a job with safety issues, safety comes before individual clothing demands...

It's like that story about Sikhs who worked as construction workers but didn't want to wear helmets because they had to take off their turbans... AS far as i'm concerned they can find another job if they're not willing to respect the safety codes.
Just wondering, but do you work for the WCB?
Anyway, what you say makes sense. But if someone can do their job in a safe manner, what difference does what they wear make? (this is the point of the topic)
 

quandary121

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look this is all rubbish the quran says nothing about HAVING to wear the hi jab it says that women should cover there hair and dress modestly ....
this has nothing to do with their religion its just another stick to poke holes in the laws that have been set down before they even entered western cultures ...
Is Hijab Compulsory?
"The Quran does not suggest that women should be veiled or they should be kept apart from the world of men. On the contrary, the Quran is insistent on the full participation of women in society and in the religious practices."
By Dr. Ibrahim B. Syed, Ph.D

One of the verses in the Quran protects a woman's fundamental rights. Verse 59 of Surah Al-Ahzaab reads: "O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when outside) : so that they should be known (as such) and not molested".
According to the Quran, the reason why Muslim women should wear an outer garment when going out of their homes is that they may be recognised as "Believing" women and differentiated from streetwalkers for whom sexual harassment is an occupational hazard. The purpose of this verse was not to confine women to their homes, but to make it safe for them to go about their daily business without attracting unsavoury attention.
Older Muslim women who are past the prospect of marriage are not required to wear "the outer garment". "Such elderly women as are past the prospect of marriage, there is no blame on them if they lay aside their (outer) garments, provided they make not wanton display of their beauty; but it is best for them to be modest; and Allah is One Who sees and knows all things". (24:60).
The Quran does not suggest that women should be veiled or they should be kept apart from the world of men. On the contrary, the Quran is insistent on the full participation of women in society and in the religious practices.
Morality of the self and cleanliness of conscience are far better than the morality of the purdah. No goodness can come from pretence. Imposing the veil on women is the ultimate proof that men suspect their mothers, daughters, wives and sisters of being potential traitors to them. How can Muslim men meet non-Muslim women who are not veiled and treat them respectfully, but not accord the same respectful treatment to Muslim women?
To wear the Hijaab is certainly NOT an Islamic obligatory on women. It is an innovation (Bid'ah) of men suffering from a piety complex who are so weak spiritually that they just cannot trust themselves!
Muslim women remained in mixed company with men until the late sixth century (A.H.) or 11 th century (A.C.). They received guests, held meetings and went to wars to help their brothers and husbands, and they defended their castles and bastions.
It is part of the growing feeling on the part of Muslim men and women that they no longer wish to identify with the West, and that reaffirmation of their identity as Muslims requires the kind of visible sign that adoption of conservative clothing implies.
For these women the issue is not that they have to dress conservatively, but that they choose to. In lran, Imam Khomeini first insisted that women must wear the veil and chador, but in response to large demonstrations by women, he modified his position and agreed that while the chador is not obligatory, MODEST dress is.
http://www.islamfortoday.com/syed06.htm

this is what it says in the quran about the hijab
Quranic Verses about Hijab:
“O you Children of Adam! We have bestowed on you raiment to cover your shame as well as to be an adornment to you. But the raiment of righteousness, that is the best. Such are among the Signs of Allah, that they may receive admonition.” (Quran 7:26)


“And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what must ordinarily appear therof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers, or their brothers' sons or their sisters' sons, or their women or the servants whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex, and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O you Believers, turn you all together towards Allah, that you may attain Bliss.” (Quran 24:31).

“O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad). That will be better, so that they may be recognised and not annoyed. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.” (Quran 33:59)

http://www.soundvision.com/Info/news/hijab/hjb.quran.asp

This is the Muslims way of trying to force their religious beliefs down your throats.. B/S is what it is they are conning you and or laws..point blank
 

quandary121

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[SIZE=-1]THREE RULES FOR WOMEN DRESS CODE IN ISLAM (SUBMISSION), [/SIZE]
THE BEST GARMENT, FIRST RULE :
[7:26] "O children of Adam, we have provided you with garments to
cover your bodies, as well as for luxury. But the best
garment is the garment of righteousness. These are some
of GOD's signs, that they may take heed."
This is the BASIC rule of DRESS CODE in the Quran. This is the
first rule in WOMEN DRESS CODE in Islam (Submission).

SECOND RULE, COVER YOUR BOSOMS:
The second rule can be found in 24:31. Here God orders the women
to cover their bosoms whenever they dress up. But before quoting
24:31 let us review some crucial words that are always mentioned
with this topic, namely "Hijab" and "Khimar"

THE WORD "HIJAB" in the QURAN
"Hijab" is the term used by many Muslims women to describe their head
cover that may or may not include covering their face except their eyes,

and sometimes covering also one eye. The Arabic word "Hijab" can be
translated into veil or yashmak. Other meanings for the word "Hijab"
include, screen, cover(ing), mantle, curtain, drapes, partition, division,
divider.
Can we find the word "Hijab" in the Quran??
The word "Hijab" appeared in the Quran 7 times, five of them as
"Hijab" and two times as "Hijaban," these are 7:46, 33:53, 38:32,
41:5, 42:51, 17:45 & 19:17.
None of these "Hijab" words are used in the Quran in reference to
what the traditional Muslims call today (Hijab) as a dress code for the
Muslim woman.
God knows that generations after Muhammed's death the Muslims will
use the word "Hijab" to invent a dress code that He never authorized.
God used the word "Hijab" ahead of them just as He used the word
"Hadith" ahead of them.
Hijab in the Quran has nothing to do with the Muslim Women dress
code.
HISTORICAL BACKGROUND:
While many Muslims call "Hijab", an Islamic dress code, they
completely ignore the fact that, Hijab as a dress code has nothing
to do with Islam and nothing to do with QURAN.
In reality "Hijab" is an old Jewish tradition that infiltrated into
the hadith books like many innovations that contaminated Islam
through alleged Hadith and Sunna. Any student of the Jewish
traditions or religious
books will see that head cover for the Jewish
woman is encouraged
by the Rabbis and religious leaders.
Religious Jewish women still
cover their heads most of the time and
specially in the synagogues,
weddings, and religious festivities.
This Jewish tradition is a cultural not a religious one. Hijab was observed
by the women of the civilizations that preceded the Jews and was
passed down to the Jewish culture.

Christian women cover their heads in many religious occasions while
the nuns cover their heads all the time. This religious practice of
covering the head was established from traditions thousands of
years before the Muslim scholars claimed the Hijab as a Muslim
dress code.
The traditional Arabs, of all religions, Jews, Christians and
Muslims used to wear "Hijab," not because of Islam, but because of
tradition. In Saudi Arabia, up to this minute most of the men cover
their head , not because of Islam but because of tradition. Thank
God this tradition has not been counted as Islamic dress code yet.
North Africa is known for its Tribe (Tuareg) that have the Muslim
men wearing "Hijab" instead of women. Here the tradition has the
hijab in reverse. If wearing Hijab is the sign of the pious and
righteous Muslim woman, Mother Teresa would have been the first
woman to be counted.
In brief, hijab is a traditional dress and has nothing to do with
Islam or religion. In certain areas of the world, men are the ones
who wear the hijab while in others the women do.
Mixing religion with tradition is a form of idol-worship, because
not knowing (or not trying to find out) what God asked you to do in His
book, the Quran, is a sign of disregarding God and His message.
When tradition supersedes God's commandment, the true religion
takes a second place. God never accepts to be second, God has to be
always the FIRST and to HIM there is no second..

THE WORD "KHIMAR" in the QURAN:
"Khimar" is an Arabic word that can be found in the Quran in 24:31
While the first basic rule of Dress Code for the Muslim Women can
be found in 7:26, the second rule of the DRESS CODE FOR WOMEN
can be found in 24:31. Some Muslims quote verse 31 of sura 24 as
containing the Hijab, or head cover, by pointing to the word,
khomoorehenna, (from Khimar), forgetting that God already used
the word Hijab, several times in the Quran.

http://www.submission.org/dress4.htm

More proof this is B/S dressed up as religious belief
frigging Muslims and there hatred of western ideals and total disregard for what we believe in fuk em
 

Praxius

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hmm... maybe you can back this up a bit... I remember a case about hijab wearing in soccer. But anything else I remember has to do with hijab controversy in schools.

Of course, there's been serious debate in Quebec over the right to wear the hijab in school. But I don't think there's any shame in debating these issues. Secularism of public education vs. individual rights is something to talk about, not ignore. And it can be a very tricky subject. Why would you ask the typical white anglo-saxon kid to take off his baseball cap in class while the muslim girl can keep her hijab?

One is religious, the other is related to a sport. Our culture was raised to accept we remove hats while indoors, or at least in school..... a Hijab is a part of their culture... religious culture at that, and if it doesn't hurt anybody, I don't see why it should have been an issue in the first place, except for the purpose of assemilation.

but other examples:

Quebec firm on hijab ban for prison guards

http://oppressionstothehijab.wordpress.com/2007/03/17/quebec-firm-on-hijab-ban/


Quebec: Veiled Muslim women will be permitted to vote
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/015748.php

Muslim girls refuse to remove hijabs for Quebec Tae Kwon Do event
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/04/15/america/NA-GEN-Canada-Sports-Hijab.php

Muslim girl ejected from tournament for wearing hijab
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2007/02/25/hijab-soccer.html

Hijab No Threat to Quebec, Report Says

The majority of these situations shouldn't have been situations from the get go.
 

quandary121

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Can we find the word "Hijab" in the Quran??
The word "Hijab" appeared in the Quran 7 times, five of them as
"Hijab" and two times as "Hijaban," these are 7:46, 33:53, 38:32,
41:5, 42:51, 17:45 & 19:17.
None of these "Hijab" words are used in the Quran in reference to
what the traditional Muslims call today (Hijab) as a dress code for the
Muslim woman.
God knows that generations after Muhammed's death the Muslims will
use the word "Hijab" to invent a dress code that He never authorized.
God used the word "Hijab" ahead of them just as He used the word
"Hadith" ahead of them.
Hijab in the Quran has nothing to do with the Muslim Women dress
code.
http://www.submission.org/dress4.htm

see this is what it says nothing about Muslim Women dress
code.
 

s_lone

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Just wondering, but do you work for the WCB?
Anyway, what you say makes sense. But if someone can do their job in a safe manner, what difference does what they wear make? (this is the point of the topic)

After googling, I'm guessing you're refering to the Worker's Compensation Board... and no I don't work for them...

I agree with you... Once safety is well assured, one should wear whatever they feel like wearing...
 

quandary121

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Burqini: Forget the Bikini here's the answer to your Muslim beach wear dilemmas.

Submitted by bagelblogger on Tue, 2007-01-16 15:01. ::

This article was aggregated from
Bagelblogger: After the recent fiasco with the Australian Mufti who called un- covered women trays of meat, its quite refreshing to see that some Muslim women won't allow bigoted narrow minded Mufti's from stopping them from having a good time.
_________________
In a lycra revolution, a cover-all swimming costume is bringing Muslim women on to Australian beaches as lifeguards, unzipping racial tensions which divided parts of Sydney little over a year ago.
The two-piece "burqini", popular in the Middle East, is proving key to a reshaping surf lifesaving - once a bastion of white Australian culture and still a heartland of the country's sun-bronzed, heroic self-myth.
"I am Australian so I always have the Australian life style, but now with the burqini it just allowed me to participate in it more. We used to always go to the beach, but now that I have the burqini I can actually swim," said Mecca Laalaa, 22.
Laalaa is one of 24 young Australians of Arab heritage who recently signed up to a 10-week training course run by Surf Life Saving Australia aimed at widening the racial mix on beaches.
The shift follows race riots between ethnic Lebanese Australians and white Australian youths at Cronulla Beach in Sydney's south in the lead-up to Christmas in 2005.
Cars, shops and churches were damaged in the violence, which followed an attack on a pair of white Australian beach lifeguards.
Laalaa, whose ethnic background is Lebanese-Australian, is relying on a home-grown burqini - a compromise between a burqa and a bikini - to keep her covered on Cronulla's sands.
The full-length lycra suit with hijab head-covering is not too figure hugging to embarrass, but is tight enough to allow its wearer to swim freely. It will soon be manufactured in the iconic red and yellow of Australia's surf life saving movement.
"We are surrounded by water all over Australia, it is totally encouraged for us from all the schools, no matter what school you go to," burqini manufacturer Aheda Zanetti said.
"So when these girls decide and choose to wear the veil, they decide to stop doing that. We didn't want to do that."
The burqini is making its appearance during the 100th anniversary of surf life saving in Australia, which began on Sydney's famous Bondi Beach and has grown to count 115,000 volunteers in more than 300 clubs.
Women were only allowed membership in 1980 and some clubs patrol inland lakes, including Lake Jindabyne near the snow-capped southern Australian Alps.
Zanetti, who sells her burqinis for up to $A200, hopes to widen the garment's appeal beyond Muslim women at the beach.
"We are also encouraged in Australia to cover up not due to modesty but for sun protection, so this is not just a modesty aspect swimming suit, it is also a protection against the sun, surf and sand," she said.
____________________

Bagelblogger:
Its interesting to draw some parallels between this form of Swimwear and that which was popular at the turn of the 19th century. Essentially during the prudish times of the Victorian era the major theme in women's swim wear was covering the body.
Right: Victorian ladies at the beach
When we look back on the swimming out fits from the turn of the twentieth century we often find amusement in how awkward and impractical those outfits were.
It is with some irony that I observe all the publicity going on in Australia about this new 'Burqini', is it really ground breaking? Or is it just Swimwear fashion from Victorian times revisited?
I've never understood women's fashion, and its cyclic seasons. It seems if you keep anything long enough it will one day be that ' groovy outfit' again.
There's an interesting political slant being spun on this latest development. After the Australian Cronulla riots only last summer, there was a lot of inter racial tension between Lebanese Muslims and Anglo Saxon Australians. Part of the tension was accusations of Lebanese youths intimidating locals at the beach, the counter argument was accusations of intolerance.
The Australia government has been calling for more tolerance from the Anglo Saxon Australian community and greater integration, co operation and acknowledgement of their Australian Identity from Lebanese Muslims. There has been a project of introducing Lebanese Muslims into Lifesaving at and near Cronulla beach. Lifesaving is not normally a sport that Lebanese Muslims would readily identify with.
It's interesting that this Burqini design is being portrayed as a avenue for Muslim girls to participate in Lifesaving. Of course this also appeases critics that criticize Lebanese Muslims for their lack of adoption of Australian identities and willingness to integrate into the Australian Community at large.
The real truth be known, its great to see Muslim women having the chance at actually swimming whilst at the beach, but to read this as a great mending of the cultural divide is simply political dexterity gone mad.
The divide exists, and shall exist as long as Radical and Fundamentalists Muslims take center stage and more moderate Muslims maintain their willingness to avoid criticizing what is wrong with extremism.
That extremism exists in non Muslim C society is not debated, but few would argue that they are at least not ostracized by the greater Australian community.
http://www.israelated.com/node/6967

An Australian answer to there muslim problem
 

quandary121

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we should all take a leaf out of the Australian prime ministers book and say just like he has

Minister tells Muslims: accept Aussie values or 'clear off'


The Minister says it is important for all groups to be integrated into the Australian community, whatever their religion.
"If you want to be an Australian, if you want to raise your children in Australia, we fully expect those children to be taught and to accept Australian values and beliefs," he said.
"We want them to understand our history and our culture, the extent to which we believe in mateship and giving another person a fair go, and basically if people don't want to support and accept and adopt and teach Australian values then, they should clear off."
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200508/s1445181.htm