Liberals and NDP In Bed with the Bloc

[bluealberta]

Re: RE: Liberals and NDP In B

It works like this, North...Two parts irrational hatred, three parts Jack Daniels, one part Jose Quervo a pinch of salt, and one sliced lime.

Joe Clark was the best bet that the political right had at forming an electable party. The radical right would not accept him. Now that they are unelectable due to their own actions and policies, it is all a Liberal plot and anybody they don't like...left, right or centre...is a Liberal because their soul mates in the US managed to make that a dirty word.

Joe Clark had liberal philosophies in the conservative party. He should have been in the Liberal party. Why would we want another left wing party? To be Liberal LIte? We already have two left wing parties, is there now a law that says every political party in Canada must be left wing?

And RedFred was right about the political affiliation of the members he mentioned. Look it up.

 

[bluealberta]

How can you not care about the PM's top men offering to plum postings or cabinet seats in exchange for votes? I guess you support corruption and sleaze. We know what party you probably fit well with.

There is a significant amount of evidence that the tapes were tampered with by the Conservatives to make the Liberals look bad.

Which just shows you that the Conservatives are just as corrupt as the Liberals. And Grummat Grewel is a snake. Who, in case you have forgotten is reputed to have engaged in unethical activities involving immigration. Is he really the sort of person that can be trusted? I don't think so.

Anyone who has done any kind of recording, including dubbing, knows there are glitches, especially done in a non professional way. The amount of time supposedly "missing" does not affect the meaning on the tapes. The Liberals offered positions, no matter who first approached who. Thats vote buying, no matter what.

 

[bluealberta]

North Boy wrote:

"As for your view on the Conservatives having the answer to our current economic situation, I'm not sure I can agree on that point.
The Conservative economic platform, if it follows the script playing out in Alberta, is a concept based on leveraging low cost labour and creating a race to the bottom with a gutted safety net...Not my kind of economics.... "

So, let me get this straight. You don't like economic policies that get you no debt, no sales tax, lowest personal income tax rates in Canada, low corporate tax rates (you know, so they can reinvest money in exploration and things like that), and the highest standard of living in Canada? I guess you want the opposite of all these? Keep voting Lib or NDP, that's what you will get, along with the corruption and sleaze.

The point of my initial post was to point out the hypocrisy of the left on this forum by totally blasting the Conservatives during the budget debate by voting the same way as the Bloc. Statements like "In bed with the party that will destroy the country", and "The conservatives are out to destroy the country by voting with the Bloc" were made all over the place. These same statements must now apply equally to the Libs and NDP, given the last vote.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

So, let me get this straight. You don't like economic policies that get you no debt, no sales tax, lowest personal income tax rates in Canada, low corporate tax rates (you know, so they can reinvest money in exploration and things like that), and the highest standard of living in Canada?

OIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!

Can't deny it... :wink:

 

[bluealberta]

So, let me get this straight. You don't like economic policies that get you no debt, no sales tax, lowest personal income tax rates in Canada, low corporate tax rates (you know, so they can reinvest money in exploration and things like that), and the highest standard of living in Canada?

OIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!

Can't deny it... :wink:

Yup, OIL since 1947, developed by Alberta and Albertans, to the point that we now contribute $9 - $12 billion a year back to the rest of Canada, after doing what was necessary to get our province to where it is now.

And Ontario has manufacturing and the auto industry to propel their economic engine, to present a counterpoint to your oil issue. And at no time was Ontario ever forced to sell autombiles at less than market (world) prices to the rest of Canada as Alberta was forced to do with the NEP.

So you still don't like our policies? :roll:

 

[Gonzo]

I never said that the Liberals were not corrupt. The Conservatives are no better (they're worse). The NDP did a good thing by getting some social spending on the budget. It seems to me that they are the best choice in the next election.
Somewhere on this thread someone said that the Conservatives have never been in power and we could only speculate what that would be like. They have been in power and it was a terrible time of unrest. Remember Mulroney? It would be worse with a nut like Harper in power.
It's time for a party that has never been in power. The NDP.

 

[bluealberta]

I never said that the Liberals were not corrupt. The Conservatives are no better (they're worse). The NDP did a good thing by getting some social spending on the budget. It seems to me that they are the best choice in the next election.
Somewhere on this thread someone said that the Conservatives have never been in power and we could only speculate what that would be like. They have been in power and it was a terrible time of unrest. Remember Mulroney? It would be worse with a nut like Harper in power.
It's time for a party that has never been in power. The NDP.

The CPC has never been in power. The old Progressive Conservatives were in power, but not the CPC, it has only been an official party for a short time. By using your logic, then the Reform was in power too during the Mulroney years, since the CPC is made up of former reformers and former blue PC members.

The policies of the new CPC are vastly different from either the old Reform or the old PC's.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Still whining about the NEP, Blue? Too bad.

Anyone who has done any kind of recording, including dubbing, knows there are glitches, especially done in a non professional way. The amount of time supposedly "missing" does not affect the meaning on the tapes. The Liberals offered positions, no matter who first approached who. Thats vote buying, no matter what.

Anyone who has listened to the experts understands that the tapes have been tampered with. Not "glitches", not bumped microphones. They point to frequency changes and background noises.

The point of my initial post was to point out the hypocrisy of the left on this forum by totally blasting the Conservatives during the budget debate by voting the same way as the Bloc. Statements like "In bed with the party that will destroy the country", and "The conservatives are out to destroy the country by voting with the Bloc" were made all over the place. These same statements must now apply equally to the Libs and NDP, given the last vote.

It was the Conservatives that had strategy meetings with the Bloc. Let's not forget that. For one of the days off they voted themselves (paid for by us), they had to convince the Bloc to vote with them. They did so by pointing out that if the House wasn't sitting, CPAC would broadcast Gomery live instead. That's far different than voting the same way in the House. That is, in fact, a back room deal made for purely political reasons.

 

[RedFred]

This reverend Blair is a work of art. When logical discussion breaks out run and hide behind the childish name calling. Face the facts Rev. The people of Quebec didn't expell all the PROGRESSIVE CONSERVATIVES in that province. Thy didn't expell all the Liberals either. They became Bloc. Same people, new party. You siimply shrug off the recorded past of these extreminst as if it never happened.

Now if you really want to discuss who is in bed with who all you have to do is look at the voting record of the Bloc and Liberals. Martin even has a founding member of the Bloc in his cabinet. Lets see now, former (maybe) communists, money thieves and launderers, masters of bribery, purchasing votes for $45 billion of taxpayer money, selling cabinet posts for votes, Canadian Steamship Lines corporate welfare, separatists in the party, exteremists in the party. voting with the separatists... I can see why you support these thugs. I get an idea of the kind of person supports them.

Before they make the Federation totally repulsive to Canadians, these collaborators must go (to jail hopefully). If you love Canada as much as I do, stop the raid on the public treasury.

 

[RedFred]

This reverend Blair is a work of art. When logical discussion breaks out run and hide behind the childish name calling. Face the facts Rev. The people of Quebec didn't expell all the PROGRESSIVE CONSERVATIVES in that province. Thy didn't expell all the Liberals either. They became Bloc. Same people, new party. You siimply shrug off the recorded past of these extreminst as if it never happened.

Now if you really want to discuss who is in bed with who all you have to do is look at the voting record of the Bloc and Liberals. Martin even has a founding member of the Bloc in his cabinet. Lets see now, former (maybe) communists, money thieves and launderers, masters of bribery, purchasing votes for $45 billion of taxpayer money, selling cabinet posts for votes, Canadian Steamship Lines corporate welfare, separatists in the party, exteremists in the party. voting with the separatists... I can see why you support these thugs. I get an idea of the kind of person supports them.

Before they make the Federation totally repulsive to Canadians, these collaborators must go (to jail hopefully). If you love Canada as much as I do, stop the raid on the public treasury.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Liberals and NDP In B

You are misrepresenting why and how the BQ formed. I don't shrug off the recorded past at all, in fact I remember it very well. I also understand politics well enough to know that people change parties all the time.

If I really want to look at who is in bed with who, all I have to do is look at who is having secret strategy meetings. Too bad Geoff Norquay forgot to tell the Bloc that the meeting was supposed to be secret. He just about went white when it came out on live television.

Your claims are full of innaccuracies and half-truths and do not serve you well.

Let's look at the CSL corporate welfare thing. It did happen, and continues to happen. Do you know how it came about...what made it possible? The Liberals changed the wording of a bill in committee. The Alliance had a seat on that committee and voted with the Liberals.

There has been no proof that anybody in cabinet, our even the present Liberal caucus was stealing or laundering money.

The $45 billion number is diddled to the point of being an outright lie. Most of what you are talking about is the re-announcement of old money. That's an old political trick and certainly not one specific to the Liberals.

If you want credibility, try telling the truth for a change. Do your homework instead of just spewing Conservative rhetoric and acting like your party isn't just as dirty.

 

[RedFred]

O.K. Your right. The Alliance was simply a tool to get Paul Martin rich. Your right no signed confession.

Oh just one thing. The CONSERVATIVE PARTY OF CANADA has never stole anything, never directed taxpayer money to their party and never invited the BLOC into their cabinet.

Rev you are just as corrupt as they are.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Liberals and NDP In B

The Conservative Party of Canada is full of people who have done all of those things, Republican Fred. Changing your name every few years does not change your history. People aren't stupid and aren't fooled.

The Alliance liked the rewording of the bill because it offered a huge loop-hole to their corporate donors, not just to Liberal corporate donors.

I'm not corrupt at all, Republican Fred. I would very much like to see corruption out of politics.

Has the CPC put forth one single proposition or policy that would in any way reduce corruption? No, they have not. Nor have they called for a committee to determine rules for crossing the floor. It is the NDP who have done those things.

Did the CPC call for a police investigation into the Grewal tapes? No, they were forced to by calls by the NDP and the BQ. They were reluctant to turn the tapes over to the RCMP and held onto them for two weeks.

Did the CPC demand an investigation by the Ethics Commissioner of both Liberal and CPC actions? No, they did not. It was Jack Layton who made that request.

Did the CPC demand that the Liberals turn over phone logs etc to the RCMP to aid any investigation? Not only didn't they make such a demand (the NDP did though), but they have also not offered their own phone logs etc as collaborating evidence for the tapes.

All signs are that the Liberals and the CPC do not want any real investigation into Grewalgate. They have both been avoiding it since the beginning. The CPC was looking for cheap political points and the Liberals were hoping the whole thing would just go away. Now both parties are hoping that the whole thing just goes away.

 

[bluealberta]

Re: RE: Liberals and NDP In B

The Conservative Party of Canada is full of people who have done all of those things,

Like Who? I think most of the Mulroney governement, who you keep going back to, are not involved in this party now. Certainly no one I can think of right away was in the Mulroney cabinet.

Republican Fred. Changing your name every few years does not change your history. People aren't stupid and aren't fooled.

Well, some of you might be and are :wink:

The Alliance liked the rewording of the bill because it offered a huge loop-hole to their corporate donors, not just to Liberal corporate donors.

I'm not corrupt at all, Republican Fred. I would very much like to see corruption out of politics.

Then vote for a party, the CPC that actually has a chance to win an election and throw the corrupt liberals out on their asses.

Has the CPC put forth one single proposition or policy that would in any way reduce corruption? No, they have not. Nor have they called for a committee to determine rules for crossing the floor. It is the NDP who have done those things.

Did the CPC call for a police investigation into the Grewal tapes? No, they were forced to by calls by the NDP and the BQ. They were reluctant to turn the tapes over to the RCMP and held onto them for two weeks.

With all due respect to the RCMP, they are also under investigation, by themselves, for their role in Adscam. So now the ND's and the Bloc are together. Kumbaya.

Did the CPC demand an investigation by the Ethics Commissioner of both Liberal and CPC actions? No, they did not. It was Jack Layton who made that request.

The same ethics commissioner who is a protege of Chretien and the liberals? I am POSITIVE there will be no bias in his investigation.

Did the CPC demand that the Liberals turn over phone logs etc to the RCMP to aid any investigation? Not only didn't they make such a demand (the NDP did though), but they have also not offered their own phone logs etc as collaborating evidence for the tapes.

According to Question Period this morning, all parties but the liberals have agreed to turn over the records you mention, including e-mails. Funny how that works.

All signs are that the Liberals and the CPC do not want any real investigation into Grewalgate. They have both been avoiding it since the beginning. The CPC was looking for cheap political points and the Liberals were hoping the whole thing would just go away. Now both parties are hoping that the whole thing just goes away.

Actually, some of are just hoping the Liberals go away.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

bluealberta,

It must be a terrible blow to your ego to come to the realization that you've been supporting a party that has shown to it's prospective voters that they are equally susceptible to corruption. Those of us who understand how and why the CPC was formed knew that, not only was this possible, but that it was only a matter of time before they showed themselves to be as incompetent and corrupt as the Liberal government. That, coupled with their regressive social policies, should ensure that they will not be in power any time soon.

Perhaps the small 'c' conservatives will take the party back, and there may be some hope for the CPC, but not before they eat Harper alive...I truly look forward to that day...

 

[Reverend Blair]

The thing is that we all knew they were just as corrupt, Vanni. It's funny that Blue mentioned Mulroney...Harper was a policy advisor to Mulroney. He was part of the most corrupt government this country has ever seen, although not an elected member.

The CPC has no chance of being elected in this country. Their regressive social policies have seen to that. Now they've shown themselves to be just as corrupt as the Liberals...willing to break the law to play political games. The best we can hope for in the forseeable future is a Liberal minority as a result.

The Cons are down to making wild excuses. They can't trust the RCMP, and the Ethics commissioner must be on the take. All judges that make rulings they do not agree with are "activist" judges out to get them.

Also, Blue, agreeing to something under pressure after the fact is not the same as volunteering the information in the first place. That is especially when you've got a reputation for tampering with evidence.

 

[RedFred]

You'right. Throw the conservatives in jail for daring to catch the Liberals buying votes with patronage. With these guys around how are the Liberals supposed to get away with adventures.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

You'right. Throw the conservatives in jail for daring to catch the Liberals buying votes with patronage. With these guys around how are the Liberals supposed to get away with adventures.

If there were offers made, then Murphy and Dosanjh should be held accountable. Likely this won't happen though, because experts have declared the tapes tampered with. How could they possibly make a case against the Liberals with tampered evidence? It doesn't matter a lick what's on the tapes now, they are inadmissible as evidence.

However, because they have been tampered, there must have been a reason to do so...every Canadian that's followed this story knows that...if these tapes were in fact proof that offers were made and rejected, what possible reason would the CPC have had to edit them in any way...

Grewal will be held accountable for sure, and possibly Norquay...but no case can be made against the Liberals with the tampered tapes...an utterly idiotic move on the part of the Conservatives...

...one would have to wonder though, what was on the parts of the tapes that were edited out...

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Liberals and NDP In B

That's really the worst part about this, Vanni. The tapes are inadmissible as evidence now. The Liberals won't get caught again either.

That's likely why the Conservatives were so reluctant to give up the tapes in the first place...they knew that they wouldn't withstand scrutiny.

 

[RedFred]

The tapes will tell. The tapes with missing segments are copies for the media. The RCMP have the originals. Give your head a shake. You heard what was said. If you continue to support a regimethat acts this way you must be profiting from it in some way. As Canadas reputation is smeared by these clowns you just look the other way. Shame.