Latest Russian fighter/interceptor

#juan

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That looks more like it. But some research indicates that the Su30 is a technological upgrade of the Su27, a fighter of early 1970s vintage. The Su30 would then be more comparable to the F15E Strike Eagle, the most advanced and last of the Eagle enhanced versions, than the F22. But no doubt its an impressive aircraft, as i said before, on an older airframe.

The F-22 is not nearly as maneuverable as the Su30 mki. The Su30 airframe is much bigger,longer, wider than the Su27, presumably to let them carry more internal fuel. The F-15, while it is still the best air superiority fighter out there in any numbers, it would have a job keeping up with the Su30.
 

EagleSmack

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The aircraft in the topic opener is an Su-30MKi. It is not some kind of modified Mig 29. It has all the thrust vectoring tricks of the F-22, and will land on unimproved runways. I don't think these aircraft should be taken lightly.

Only a fool would take anything Russian made lightly. I strongly doubt that is the case.
 

EagleSmack

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The F-22 is not nearly as maneuverable as the Su30 mki. The Su30 airframe is much bigger,longer, wider than the Su27, presumably to let them carry more internal fuel. The F-15, while it is still the best air superiority fighter out there in any numbers, it would have a job keeping up with the Su30.

I cannot even begin to match wits with a former fighter pilot. You've probably forgotten more than I'll ever know with regards to avionics.

However isn't technology, stealth, and durability just as important in air to air combat in the 21st Century than maneuverability?

The thoughts that US Aircraft are too fragile is a myth that should have been forgotten a long time ago. Before Desert Storm THAT was the cry. All of the US stuff will break down under extreme conditions but that never materialized.
 

ironsides

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Everybody seems to forget that the F-22 is the most stealthy aircraft in the world. If you can't see it who cares how maneuverable you are. It can take out 6+ aircraft before they know it is in the area. The U.S. aircraft do not fall apart, and are just as rugged if not better than any aircraft in the world, and have proven it. With other countries except for the Harrier it is mostly all talk.
 

#juan

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I cannot even begin to match wits with a former fighter pilot. You've probably forgotten more than I'll ever know with regards to avionics.

However isn't technology, stealth, and durability just as important in air to air combat in the 21st Century than maneuverability?

The thoughts that US Aircraft are too fragile is a myth that should have been forgotten a long time ago. Before Desert Storm THAT was the cry. All of the US stuff will break down under extreme conditions but that never materialized.

Eagle, my expertise is a sham. The last jet fighter I had anything to do with was an F-86 built by Canadair. The Mark 6 had a Canadian Orenda engine that had about 7200 pounds of static thrust compared with about five thousand that the original North American F-86 had. This was back in the early sixties. Since then, jet fighters have moved up at least three whole orders of magnitude in terms of speed, time to climb, and overall sophistication.

Stealth, durability, and things like missiles that can take over their own guidence immediately after their launch lets you attack multiple targets with very little addition to the work load.

I've tried to keep current with the technology but by now, most of the people I knew in the military are retired......or worse.

Cheers
 

EagleSmack

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Eagle, my expertise is a sham. The last jet fighter I had anything to do with was an F-86 built by Canadair. The Mark 6 had a Canadian Orenda engine that had about 7200 pounds of static thrust compared with about five thousand that the original North American F-86 had. This was back in the early sixties. Since then, jet fighters have moved up at least three whole orders of magnitude in terms of speed, time to climb, and overall sophistication.



Cheers

This is where I rest my case! :lol:

You know a heck of a lot more than I !
 

MHz

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However isn't technology, stealth, and durability just as important in air to air combat in the 21st Century than maneuverability?

The thoughts that US Aircraft are too fragile is a myth that should have been forgotten a long time ago. Before Desert Storm THAT was the cry. All of the US stuff will break down under extreme conditions but that never materialized.
A fighter with a human on-board can maneuver only so fast, they are best as the delivery platform for the 'dog-fight' shells. Fragile is not having a manual over-ride lever.
A Rotax powered ultra-light could be the 'next king of the air' should chips fail to function.

What extreme conditions?? Engines just about run forever, the bombs were already all there before the campaign started. The tanks and such didn't run full-steam for a month straight.
 

#juan

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[quoting Eaglesmack]The thoughts that US Aircraft are too fragile is a myth that should have been forgotten a long time ago. Before Desert Storm THAT was the cry. All of the US stuff will break down under extreme conditions but that never materialized.[/quote]

The top air superiority fighter is still the F-15. Hardly fragile. It first flew in 1972 and it is still going.. If I was building a new F-15, I don't know what I would build. The same thing again only faster with more range? There are limits as to what you can do with a twin engine fighter. I've often wondered if the F-22 would still be stealthy when is covered with external tanks and missiles lined up on the wings...

Here is something else:

The Stealthy F-15 Battles The F-35

April 16, 2009: Boeing recently unveiled its newest 5th generation fighter the, F-15SE (Silent Eagle) which could well be a F-35 killer on the export market. The aircraft is essentially an F-15 with improved radar and avionics and a modified airframe to add stealth (resistance to radar detection). Conformal fuel tanks mounted underneath the airframe create two internal weapons bays. Each bay has two stores hard points; an upper swing out weapons rack and a lower trapeze with separate doors. The trapeze can carry a 1000 pound JDAM (Joint Direct Attack Munition) or an AIM-120 AMRAAM (Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile). The upper swing out weapon rack can be fitted with a rail to mount an AMRAAM or smaller AIM-9X Sidewinder missile. It also can be fitted with a 500 pound bomb. All four hard points can carry two SDBs (Small Diameter Bomb) each. Apart from the internal weapons bays, the major retrofit to the airframe is the two tail fins canted 15 degrees outwards to eliminate nose ballast and the trim, reducing the radar cross section towards the sides. The aircraft’s frontal radar signature has been further softened out by using radar absorbent coatings to the airframe, particularly to the leading edges. Boeing claims the end-result is an aircraft that can match the frontal-aspect stealth profile of any fifth generation fighter in configurations cleared by the US government for export release. The US government has very strict regulations on export of aircraft with low radar signature. For an example the USAF’s primary air superiority stealth fighter the Lockheed Martin F-22 is not cleared for export. Boeing acknowledges the F-15SE’s stealth improvements do not help against ground-based radar systems, which are critical for waging offensive strikes against opponents armed with surface to air missile systems. Lowering the F-15SE’s thermal signature - a critical stealthy feature for the F-22 - is also not part of Boeing’s plans. But it says the F-15SE is aimed at international customers who are more likely to use the aircraft for defensive, counter-air operations where the aircraft would be harder to detect by airborne radar of an enemy aircraft.
Another key feature of the F-15SE is its electronic warfare system. Boeing has selected the BAE Systems digital electronic warfare system (DEWS), which includes a digital radar warning receiver, digital jamming transmitter, integrated countermeasures dispenser and an interference cancellation system. This enables the aircraft to continue to jam enemy radars even as its own radar and radar warning receiver (RWR) continues to function. The main sensor for the aircraft will be the Raytheon APG-63(V)3 active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar.
Boeing’s estimated cost for a new aircraft is $100 million, including spares and training. However, if the existing F-15E customers want to retrofit their aircraft to the F-15SE standard, the company would undertake same at a much lesser cost. Boeing plans to offer the aircraft initially to Israel, Japan, Singapore, Saudi Arabia and South Korea, with all being current F-15 customers.
The unique feature of all the improvements is that the aircraft can be quickly reconfigurable to its former non stealthy standard. With its new sensors and the Electronic Warfare suit plus it’s 14 ton payload makes it a front runner in the non stealth multi-role fighter market at any case.
Although Boeing doesn’t admit the implications of the arrival of the F-15SE on the export market for the F-35, the shrinking defense budgets of many counties who were potential customers for the F-35 may be attracted to the new aircraft. Already two customers on the F-35 prospect list (Israel and Singapore) are on the list of potential customers for the F-15 SE, and a third, Japan is due to make a request for proposals for its F-X fighter program. The F-35 still being under the specification and over-budget adds more weight in to the Boeing’s prospects. Independent analysts also see potential markets for the SE in Taiwan and in other Middle East countries such as UAE and Kuwait. However according to Boeing, USAF the largest F-15 operator, still is not an “official” sales target. -- Chaminda Perera
 

coldstream

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That's interesting. The F15 might have displaced the F4 Phantom as the most durable and flexible jet fighter, with the longest production run, of all time. It sounds like F15E owners might be able to upgrade to something that is just short of an F22 at a bargain price.
 

#juan

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That's interesting. The F15 might have displaced the F4 Phantom as the most durable and flexible jet fighter, with the longest production run, of all time. It sounds like F15E owners might be able to upgrade to something that is just short of an F22 at a bargain price.

The F-4 Phantom was durable but it's main fort was adaptability. The British used their Phantoms first on a carrier. When they switched over to the Harrier carriers, the Phantoms were used as ground-based fighter/intercepters and they served in that role for another six or seven years. Somebody once described the Phantom as living proof that if you put enough power on a brick you could make it fly.

The F-15E sounds very interesting. It is certainly a proven platform.
 

EagleSmack

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The top air superiority fighter is still the F-15. Hardly fragile. It first flew in 1972 and it is still going.. If I was building a new F-15, I don't know what I would build. The same thing again only faster with more range? There are limits as to what you can do with a twin engine fighter. I've often wondered if the F-22 would still be stealthy when is covered with external tanks and missiles lined up on the wings...

Without checking I thought that missles will be held internal on the F-22 like the F-117 and B-2 stealths.
 

#juan

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Without checking I thought that missles will be held internal on the F-22 like the F-117 and B-2 stealths.

You are right. I've since read that if stealth isn't of supreme importance, external tanks and hard points can be used on the F-22. The F-117 is just too ugly...;-):smile:

Just kidding.:smile::smile: The F-117 obviously works, but my God it is an ugly airplane...;-)
 

EagleSmack

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You are right. I've since read that if stealth isn't of supreme importance, external tanks and hard points can be used on the F-22. The F-117 is just too ugly...;-):smile:

Just kidding.:smile::smile: The F-117 obviously works, but my God it is an ugly airplane...;-)


It is a hideous looking plane!
 

#juan

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It is a hideous looking plane!

Here is my favourite: Btw, this is a Canadair built Sabre.

 

ironsides

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F-15SE Silent Eagle

Ares Homepage


Wonder if were just not shooting ourselves in the by selling the F-15SE to foreign countries. It is a shame that the F-22 is so expensive, the 175 or so we have could be overwhelmed by these newer cheaper fighters. (they only carry so much ammo)

The F-22 is a very clean aircraft going into combat, nothing is carried external, everything is internal. They use air to air refueling for deep penetration missions.
 

#juan

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The Sabre is still a favorite at air shows. Beautiful aircraft. Was it as a forgiving aircraft as they say?

They were mostly forgiving. New Sabre pilots would find an annoying tendency to tuck a wing under on short final but once you were used to it, it wasn't a problem. Other than that, I can't think of a major fault.
 

AnnaG

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Had to look see what an F-117 was

I don't think it's as ugly as these things:
 

coldstream

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As i remember it they had intended to retire the A10 Warthog sometime in the early 90s but it proved so effective as a close order tank killer in the Gulf War they kept it on.

I've seen one at an Airshow and they are formidable.. loud, ugly, in your face. They are heavily armoured, can turn on a dime, and blast you with Gatling Guns from metres away. No fly by wire or advanced radar targeting acquisition here, you manhandle the plane to close-in proximity, and shoot what you see.

Their pilots love them, they're right down on the deck with the infantry.. they consider themselves the grunts of Air Force, and relish being in the antithesis of these Air Superiority Fighters that never get close enough to see their targets.
 
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