Jesus's contradiction? Miracles vs. Sacrifice.

L Gilbert

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Oh, let me add to that that after this, is life, given to us freely, wheather we want to believe it or not.

We have no choice in the matter only to accept it as part of life, if we want.

Peace>>>AJ
Show us. Die then come back and tell us you were dead but are alive again. Till then there is more proof that there is death after death than there is life after death.
BTW, there are no such things as miracles, magics, etc. either. If they actually happened in the first place instead of being some fool's hallucination, it was explained or it will be explained by science. In which case, it won't be a miracle, but a natural phenomenon.
And if there really is life on Mars (other than microbes and bacteria), then THAT would be a miracle. lol
 
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eanassir

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Show us. Die then come back and tell us you were dead but are alive again.



There have been many of such incidents, like what happened to the interpreter in his childhood; he went in a journey in the world of souls, then returned again, then he described that world in details. See his story here:

BTW, there are no such things as miracles, magics, etc. either.

There is some mixing here:

magics are false and unreal acts, but only the confounding of the sights in doing things that only are some elusion and not real.

While the miracle is some extraordinary thing done by God to prove His apostle is truthful. There had been many material miracles to prove the truthfulness of the apostles, as it was requested by the deniers among their peoples:
like the staff of Moses and the other nine miracles.
Jesus also did many miracles, like the curing of some congenitally blind and the leper and others which his people could not do such acts.
The miracle of Prophet Mohammed is the Quran only; he was not given any other material miracle. The Quran is a lasting (language, science and other disciplines) miracle that will last till Doomsday.

And if there really is life on Mars (other than microbes and bacteria), then THAT would be a miracle. lol


They are now searching about such life; yesterday they announced the existence of water in the form of ice. And we shall see; Red Indians were unknown to all other people before the discovery of America, not far in time from today, and this is a thing that occurred on this Earth.


 

L Gilbert

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There have been many of such incidents, like what happened to the interpreter in his childhood; he went in a journey in the world of souls, then returned again, then he described that world in details. See his story here:

http://man-after-death.site.io/#Was_It_Death_or_Fainting_
Uhuh, any evidence other than just someone's word? Did he send a postcard from "the world of souls"? Did he bring back a trinket from there?





There is some mixing here:
magics are false and unreal acts, but only the confounding of the sights in doing things that only are some elusion and not real.



While the miracle is some extraordinary thing done by God to prove His apostle is truthful. There had been many material miracles to prove the truthfulness of the apostles, as it was requested by the deniers among their peoples:
like the staff of Moses and the other nine miracles.
Jesus also did many miracles, like the curing of some congenitally blind and the leper and others which his people could not do such acts.
The miracle of Prophet Mohammed is the Quran only; he was not given any other material miracle. The Quran is a lasting (language, science and other disciplines) miracle that will last till Doomsday.






They are now searching about such life; yesterday they announced the existence of water in the form of ice. And we shall see; Red Indians were unknown to all other people before the discovery of America, not far in time from today, and this is a thing that occurred on this Earth.





Magics are NOT unreal and are not false. They are simply sleight of hand, tricks, etc.
There are no gods, so there are no extraordinary things done by them. There are phenomena that are extraordinary but science will eventually figure them out if it's of that much importance.​
 

eanassir

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Uhuh, any evidence other than just someone's word? Did he send a postcard from "the world of souls"? Did he bring back a trinket from there?[/font][/color][/left]

He did not bring any material thing with him; but the soul of his dead sister gave him a cup of ethereal or spiritual water [: the water of Paradise], and he then, when he returned to the World, did not feel any severe thirst afterwards in this material World. He also saw his uncle whom he did not know or see before.

There has been many other somewhat similar stories, like these:
http://man-after-death.site.io/#A_Story_of_Fainting_


Magics are NOT unreal and are not false. They are simply sleight of hand, tricks, etc.

There are no gods, so there are no extraordinary things done by them. There are phenomena that are extraordinary but science will eventually figure them out if it's of that much importance.


There is only One God the Creator of the heavens and the earth and all that is between them.

Magic are three kinds; what you mentioned is only one kind which is the sleight of the hand, tricks, etc.

The other two kinds are:

1- That which is mediated by demons (or genies) like some works that appear as extraordinary, while it is made by demons who are invisible, so it appears as marvelous; because such demons are invisible to people, but the viewers or spectators only see the magician, so they will surprise from his work.

2- And that which is mediated by Satan and the devils, by way of suggestions and cunning design: like the separation between husband and wife...etc. Here, Satan and the devils carry out the magic to separate between the husband and wife by way of inserting discord and quarrelling.

Therefore, magic is forbidden; because it is a sort of associating the devil with God.

eanassir
http://man-after-death.site.io
 
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look3467

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Gilbert

I am a fool for Christ no doubt!

My belief is that I will see you in heaven, but the joys of His kingdom while yet in the flesh are your loss.

Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

To them that believe is this granted.

Peace>>>AJ
 

talloola

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Gilbert

I am a fool for Christ no doubt!

My belief is that I will see you in heaven, but the joys of His kingdom while yet in the flesh are your loss.

Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

To them that believe is this granted.

Peace>>>AJ

When you arrive in heaven, what form are you in, just a soul, or in the same clothes
you were buried in, and what about the ones who were cremated, how do you
go about getting around in heaven, if you are ashes.

I am not being sarcastic, I want to know what 'you' believe happens.

You are a good person AJ, and I know you think the best of all of us, so I acknowledge
that.

Peace to you too.
 

look3467

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When you arrive in heaven, what form are you in, just a soul, or in the same clothes
you were buried in, and what about the ones who were cremated, how do you
go about getting around in heaven, if you are ashes.

I am not being sarcastic, I want to know what 'you' believe happens.

You are a good person AJ, and I know you think the best of all of us, so I acknowledge
that.

Peace to you too.>>>
talloola
Well, I read that we are to be clothes in white robes, meaning that we are cleaned and in a purified state.

If we are to be robed, then it must mean we will have bodies.

Ref: Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

The key words to opening up that verse are “after this”.

After this, means that the price for our salvation was the determining point in time upon which after that point, it was made truth; which was at the resurrection of Jesus.

For the cremated, and the seas shall all give up the dead: Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Key word “works”, for works can only be done on earth, meaning that all who lived and died before Christ were in their live days judged according to their works, but after Christ, their souls were redeemed.

Also meaning that for the cave man, not having any God knowledge, was also judged according to his works, yet his soul saved at the appointed time.

I know that this might be a bit hard for some to understand, but truly, God is a gracious God.

Peace>>>AJ



 

eanassir

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Gilbert

I am a fool for Christ no doubt!

My belief is that I will see you in heaven, but the joys of His kingdom while yet in the flesh are your loss.

Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

To them that believe is this granted.

Peace>>>AJ

The complexity of such teachings indicates that it is not correct.

The reason for this wrong way and wrong doctrines is because it is far from the simple principles of the religion of God.

The reason for this is that they have based their doctrines on some fabricated and distorted books that are not the same originally revealed from God to Moses and Jesus.

In other words: Because of the distorted heavenly books, their doctrines have been distorted; and because there has been many changes and alteration in these heavenly books :) the Torah and the Gospel), the principles of the original religion of monotheism has been changed, altered and distorted.

Example: When you wrangle with anyone of them, and say to him: This is not logical, he will answer you: it is written in the Gospel so and so, which may be not be correct, and this will lead him to base his doctrine on something not true. And by doing so, he will be away from the true God's intention and His true instruction, and away even from the true teachings of Jesus the apostle of God.

Therefore, from now on, anyone that sincerely seeks after the truth, he should resort to the last heavenly book :) the Glorious Quran) which came to correct the previous two books, and should hold fast with the Quranic revelations if he indeed seeks after God's good pleasure.

This is in the Quran 25: 1-2

تَبَارَكَ الَّذِي نَزَّلَ الْفُرْقَانَ عَلَى عَبْدِهِ لِيَكُونَ لِلْعَالَمِينَ نَذِيرًا . الَّذِي لَهُ مُلْكُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ وَلَمْ يَتَّخِذْ وَلَدًا وَلَمْ يَكُن لَّهُ شَرِيكٌ فِي الْمُلْكِ وَخَلَقَ كُلَّ شَيْءٍ فَقَدَّرَهُ تَقْدِيرًا

The explanation:
(Blessed be [the glory of] Him Who has sent down the 'Furqan' [: the sundry or sporadic revelations of the Quran] onto His servant [: Mohammed] that he may become a warner to the worlds [to warn them of the consequences of the idolatry and the association and the enthusiasm about Jesus and others.]

[God] to whom belongs the ownership of the heavens and the earth, and has not assigned for Himself any son [nor any daughter], and has not any associate in the kingdom; and has created everything, making for it a decreed termination.)



 

look3467

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Eanassir my brother,

For you there are absolutely no exceptions, but for me there are.

The same creation story written accredited to Moses should be the same for you right?

Mankind was created perfect, but when intelligences like that of God was given, mankind suddenly became separated from God.
That separation is death of ones soul.

All humanity comes under that curse! You, I and every living soul that ever walked the earth.

God knew this from the very get go and thus provided an antidote at the appointed time in human history.

If you get your eyes off the sin factor, the laws and look at the state of the soul of mankind because of knowledge given, then you will begin to see why Jesus had to come.

The antidote is in Jesus for all mankind and not just for the Jews, for Jesus was a Jew by King David.
Had not Jesus come, had not God's antidote being placed in effect, you, I and every soul that ever existed would be as if none of us would have ever graced this earth.

Should you be able to see passed all mankind's specifics of religious beliefs, you would see the underlying truth of Gods work.

I will see you, and everybody on this forum in heaven one day and then, we shall call up all our supposed oppositions in light of the saving power of God, and rejoice that we did not condemn each other to what was the supposed hell fire and brimstone.

But why wait? Let's enjoy the fruits of a loving relationship of brotherly, sisterly love on this earth now as if we were there already.

Let love be the judge of our differences.

Peace>>>AJ
 

eanassir

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Eanassir my brother,

For you there are absolutely no exceptions, but for me there are.

The same creation story written accredited to Moses should be the same for you right?

Mankind was created perfect, but when intelligences like that of God was given, mankind suddenly became separated from God.
That separation is death of ones soul.

All humanity comes under that curse! You, I and every living soul that ever walked the earth.

God knew this from the very get go and thus provided an antidote at the appointed time in human history.

If you get your eyes off the sin factor, the laws and look at the state of the soul of mankind because of knowledge given, then you will begin to see why Jesus had to come.

The antidote is in Jesus for all mankind and not just for the Jews, for Jesus was a Jew by King David.
Had not Jesus come, had not God's antidote being placed in effect, you, I and every soul that ever existed would be as if none of us would have ever graced this earth.

Should you be able to see passed all mankind's specifics of religious beliefs, you would see the underlying truth of Gods work.

I will see you, and everybody on this forum in heaven one day and then, we shall call up all our supposed oppositions in light of the saving power of God, and rejoice that we did not condemn each other to what was the supposed hell fire and brimstone.

But why wait? Let's enjoy the fruits of a loving relationship of brotherly, sisterly love on this earth now as if we were there already.

Let love be the judge of our differences.

Peace>>>AJ


Dear AJ,

God – be glorified – said in the Quran 3: 24

وَغَرَّهُمْ فِي دِينِهِم مَّا كَانُواْ يَفْتَرُونَ

The explanation:
(And – as for their religion – they have been deceived by the lies which they invented.)

It means: they invented and forged many lies and did many fabrications in their heavenly book, so that the heavenly books have become distorted, and this in turn has led to the distortion of their principles and doctrines in addition to the religious rites and laws included in the Torah :) most of it is in the Old Testament) and the Gospel (of the New Testament.)

  • The Book of Genesis: is rewritten by the priest Ezra (after their return from Babylon), who deleted many laws like the law of the punishment of the thief: Ezra said the thief should give four cows instead of the single cow that he stole!!
But he stole when he had nothing, then how can he give 4 cows? The original law stated that the hand of the thief should be cut (just as in the Quran).
In fact, Satan suggested to Ezra that the thief is a poor fellow, and does not deserve such a cruel judgment; let us say the thief should pay 4 folds of the stolen property.
This is only an example, and there are a large number of such distortions: additions, deletions and forging many lies against the prophets of God.
  • The story of Adam creation in the Book of Genesis is fabricated, and not logical:
The apple is forbidden!
The serpent spoke!
God asked Adam: where are you, Adam?
God came to walk in the afternoon in the garden!
The serpent ate earth! …etc.

Moreover, the garden in which Adam and Eve were created was not the Paradise of the afterlife; it was a garden on one of the Earth mountains, and when Adam disobeyed God and sinned, and the spikes of the raspberry tree tore their clothes, and their shame appeared to both of them, Adam was punished and driven out of that garden on that mountain to descend down to the plain land below that mountain; because the water-springs started to flow in the bottom of that mountain, and that garden dried up.

 
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eanassir

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Eanassir my brother,

For you there are absolutely no exceptions, but for me there are.

The same creation story written accredited to Moses should be the same for you right?

Mankind was created perfect, but when intelligences like that of God was given, mankind suddenly became separated from God.
That separation is death of ones soul.

All humanity comes under that curse! You, I and every living soul that ever walked the earth.

God knew this from the very get go and thus provided an antidote at the appointed time in human history.

If you get your eyes off the sin factor, the laws and look at the state of the soul of mankind because of knowledge given, then you will begin to see why Jesus had to come.

The antidote is in Jesus for all mankind and not just for the Jews, for Jesus was a Jew by King David.
Had not Jesus come, had not God's antidote being placed in effect, you, I and every soul that ever existed would be as if none of us would have ever graced this earth.

Should you be able to see passed all mankind's specifics of religious beliefs, you would see the underlying truth of Gods work.

I will see you, and everybody on this forum in heaven one day and then, we shall call up all our supposed oppositions in light of the saving power of God, and rejoice that we did not condemn each other to what was the supposed hell fire and brimstone.

But why wait? Let's enjoy the fruits of a loving relationship of brotherly, sisterly love on this earth now as if we were there already.

Let love be the judge of our differences.

Peace>>>AJ


  • Therefore, there is no curse or any primary sin that all people have to pay; because Adam did not leave the Paradise of the Prosperity and Everlasting in heaven, but merely he was punished and lost that garden which was one of the Earth gardens. This is just as anyone will be punished if he commits a big sin.
  • Jesus coming was essential to Jews of his time, as is it essential for all other apostles to come to their peoples; but the mission of Jesus was so difficult and needed a tremendous personality and wisdom,
That is just like the tremendous personality of Moses whose duty was to stand in the face of a most tyrant Pharaoh and to take the chosen people of God (that He chose to serve Him alone and to support His apostles, but they betrayed the covenant.)

And as it was essential for Mohammed to come with the Quran of God, and to break up the idols, and that the Quran will be a light and guidance to all humanity.

The Quran invites all people:
· to serve God alone without any associate, equal, son, daughters or any patrons,
· and to believe in all the apostles of God including Mohammed,
· and in all the heavenly books, including the Quran.

Therefore, there is no primary sin or curse, and there is no need for any redemption; the apostle cannot redeem neither can he intercede or mediate for anyone, unless God permits that apostle to mediate or intercede a certain man to whom the apostle may be allowed to intercede for his behalf, the apostle – including Jesus – cannot mediate for anyone unless God Almighty will permit him, and not for every person: If the apostle mediate for an associater or idolater, his intercession will not be accepted, whatever that apostle be whether Moses, Jesus, Mohammed or others.

This is in the Quran 21: 27-29
لَا يَسْبِقُونَهُ بِالْقَوْلِ وَهُم بِأَمْرِهِ يَعْمَلُونَ . يَعْلَمُ مَا بَيْنَ أَيْدِيهِمْ وَمَا خَلْفَهُمْ وَلَا يَشْفَعُونَ إِلَّا لِمَنِ ارْتَضَى وَهُم مِّنْ خَشْيَتِهِ مُشْفِقُونَ . وَمَن يَقُلْ مِنْهُمْ إِنِّي إِلَهٌ مِّن دُونِهِ فَذَلِكَ نَجْزِيهِ جَهَنَّمَ كَذَلِكَ نَجْزِي الظَّالِمِينَ
The explanation:
(They speak not [concerning the intercession] until He [permits them], and they act according to His command.

He knows what is before them, and what is behind them, and they offer no intercession except for those with whom [God] is well-pleased and they stand in awe and reverence of His [glory.]

Anyone of them who says: "I am a god besides Him", We will reward him with Hell: thus do We reward wrong-doers.)


eanassir
http://quranandhebrewbible.t35.com
 

eanassir

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The antidote is in Jesus for all mankind and not just for the Jews,...
Had not Jesus come, had not God's antidote being placed in effect, you, I and every soul that ever existed would be as if none of us would have ever graced this earth.
Peace>>>AJ


The excess of love will give some opposite results.

The religion, mostly the false distorted religion following the passing of time; such religion is usually propagated by means of the passion and emotional factors: the suffering of Jesus, the sacrifice of Hussein son of Ali, the crying of Jews for their persecution …etc.

To the public in general, the reasonable thinking is only for philosophers; to people the passion and the emotional factor is the most important; therefore, the charlatan among the religious leaders will exploit this point to their behalf: so they enhance the enthusiasm and stir the emotion of the people to attain their purpose.

Satan (or the Devil) with his host of devils, know this point and – with their suggestions – stir the emotion of men to be against the religion of God: as it is demonstrated in the First Commandment :) that no god but God alone), and to be against the apostle of God and to stick to their traditions instead of following the apostle in his mission to invite people to God alone.

This is in the Quran 5: 75

مَّا الْمَسِيحُ ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ إِلاَّ رَسُولٌ قَدْ خَلَتْ مِن قَبْلِهِ الرُّسُلُ

The explanation:
(The Messiah [the Christ], son of Mary, was only a messenger, messengers before him passed away [so why do you glorify him alone, excluding others?] )

Then God mentioned another point to disprove their claim that the Christ is god; so He explained that Jesus and his mother did eat food, and it is known that the food will be converted into dirt, which man gets rid of it by passing the bowel motion:

مَّا الْمَسِيحُ ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ إِلاَّ رَسُولٌ قَدْ خَلَتْ مِن قَبْلِهِ الرُّسُلُ وَأُمُّهُ صِدِّيقَةٌ كَانَا يَأْكُلاَنِ الطَّعَامَ انظُرْ كَيْفَ نُبَيِّنُ لَهُمُ الآيَاتِ ثُمَّ انظُرْ أَنَّى يُؤْفَكُونَ

The explanation:
(The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a messenger, messengers before him passed away [so why do you glorify him alone, excluding others?]
His mother was a true believer [in the Ten Commandments of her Lord]; [the Messiah and his mother] both ate food [and anyone eats food, has to relieve nature; therefore how could they be gods?] See [Mohammed] how We make clear the revelations to them; then see how perverted they are [away from the truth!] )

Then in the following aya, He explained important evidence against them: the difference between God and the Christ:
So He said:

قُلْ أَتَعْبُدُونَ مِن دُونِ اللّهِ مَا لاَ يَمْلِكُ لَكُمْ ضَرًّا وَلاَ نَفْعًا وَاللّهُ هُوَ السَّمِيعُ الْعَلِيمُ

The explanation:
(Say: "Do you serve, apart from God, [the Messiah: the Christ] that [now] cannot hurt or profit you [because he died and his soul ascended to heaven, among angels];

while God is the All-Hearing [of any who cries to Him], the All-Knowing [of any who supplicates Him?] )


Then He invited people to serve Him and never to associate with God, and to abandon the enthusiasm about Jesus and the saints, so He said in the following aya

يَا أَهْلَ الْكِتَابِ لاَ تَغْلُواْ فِي دِينِكُمْ وَلاَ تَقُولُواْ عَلَى اللّهِ إِلاَّ الْحَقِّ إِنَّمَا الْمَسِيحُ عِيسَى ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ رَسُولُ اللّهِ وَكَلِمَتُهُ أَلْقَاهَا إِلَى مَرْيَمَ وَرُوحٌ مِّنْهُ فَآمِنُواْ بِاللّهِ وَرُسُلِهِ وَلاَ تَقُولُواْ ثَلاَثَةٌ انتَهُواْ خَيْرًا لَّكُمْ إِنَّمَا اللّهُ إِلَهٌ وَاحِدٌ سُبْحَانَهُ أَن يَكُونَ لَهُ وَلَدٌ لَّهُ مَا فِي السَّمَاوَات وَمَا فِي الأَرْضِ وَكَفَى بِاللّهِ وَكِيلاً

The explanation:
(Say: "people of the Bible [lit. Scripture], do not go beyond the bounds, in your religion, other than the truth [that the Christ is the son of man, not the son of God], and follow not the vain desires of a people [: your monks and clergymen] who went astray before [away from the truth, seeking after wealth and position], and led astray much many [of people], and themselves erred from the plain way [of Paradise, so they reached the Fire in the Hereafter.] )



 
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talloola

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Satan (or the Devil) with his host of devils, know this point and – with their suggestions – stir the emotion of men to be against the religion of God: as it is demonstrated in the First Commandment :) that no god but God alone), and to be against the apostle of God and to stick to their traditions instead of following the apostle in his mission to invite people to God alone.

So, explain to me, as you believe, how I came to 'not believe', and how it is connected to
the devil.
 

Dexter Sinister

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Mankind was created perfect, but when intelligences like that of God was given, mankind suddenly became separated from God.
That separation is death of ones soul.

All humanity comes under that curse! You, I and every living soul that ever walked the earth.

God knew this from the very get go and thus provided an antidote...
Seems to me that having to provide an antidote for something you did can only mean you did it wrong. Why couldn't this supposedly perfect being get it right the first time? And why did it take so long for the fix to appear? What happened to all those who were separated from god by their supposedly god-given gift of intelligence but died before the antidote was given and thus never heard of it? What happens to people who die now without ever having heard of it? Can they get to heaven on works alone, but if they hear about the antidote and reject it their works suddenly count for nothing? Does it not occur to anyone that unsuccessful proselytizing thus condemns people who otherwise would have been alright in the next life? Those are the kinds of questions I've never found any satisfactory answers for, the sheer illogic of the situation defeats me. The cognitive dissonance of having to keep so many contradictory ideas in my head--like a perfect being who makes elementary mistakes in logic and fails to create things as he wants them to be--is too much. What could a perfect being possibly want from us anyway? Religious belief simply doesn't make any sense to me.