Jehovah's Witness wants SCC to overturn new law

[Praxius]

people denying their children medical attention don't deserve to be respected and this child is clearly brainwashed by her family. forcing religion down children throats is child abuse. and cut this alternative treatment crap. stop making excuses for this family

Stop making excuses for this family?

What, are they supposed to suck hole everything you do because it's the popular thing to do, and thus be subjected to procedures on them with no say in the matter?

Tell me to cut the alternative treatment crap? How about you take a good long suck on one of the multiple holes on my body?

There are alternative methods in almost every medical case that exists, and everybody/anybody should have the right to choose once of those options if they so wish, regardless of what the hell your personal opinions are of those treatments...... they wouldn't be alternative treatments if they didn't have examples and cases of those treatments working in the past now wouldn't they?

So if they are known as medical treatments, and they are performed by various other doctors in the medical field, and they wish to go that route with their health, then why shouldn't they?

If a doctor chooses one procedure because it has an 80% sucess rate, but then fails on one patient, and then they want to do it again, rather then give them the other treatment with a 65% sucess rate.... who gives them the authority to make that decision when they were wrong with their decision in the first place?

80% and 65% or whatever %'s you want to use, are all the same.... they are not guarantees, they all have their chances of failure, and although one treatment has a higher rate of sucess then another form of treatment, that is not absolute proof that the alternative treatment will not work better for you then the one that works better for the average person.

And here you sit, trying to tell me that they shouldn't have any ability to choose for themselves?

Therefore you're trying to control the argument in a flawed manner.... you first claim that the parents and the child can not refuse any medical procedure that would save their lives (Child mainly) ~ and you also claim that they shouldn't have any ability to seek alternative medical procedures if they exist, other then the procedure the doctor in question wants to perform.......

.... so in other words, parents and children themselves have no say and no rights when it comes to what doctors and the government forces apon yourself. This includes all vaccines, all operations, everything.... So therefore, I guess the doctors/hospital can decide for me after I die that I will be an organ donor, even though I made it clear I don't want to be one.

Oh.... but we're only talking about crazy religious wing nut families we can't relate to and their children refusing a treatment that most other's finds acceptible, based on their relgious views that I guess we all think are stupid and hold no valid grounds compared to other religions.

Tell me something: Who makes the decision for infants when they get their foreskin removed? What are some of the reasons for a doctor allowing this to occur?

 

[ShintoMale]

Stop making excuses for this family?

What, are they supposed to suck hole everything you do because it's the popular thing to do, and thus be subjected to procedures on them with no say in the matter?

Tell me to cut the alternative treatment crap? How about you take a good long suck on one of the multiple holes on my body?

There are alternative methods in almost every medical case that exists, and everybody/anybody should have the right to choose once of those options if they so wish, regardless of what the hell your personal opinions are of those treatments...... they wouldn't be alternative treatments if they didn't have examples and cases of those treatments working in the past now wouldn't they?

So if they are known as medical treatments, and they are performed by various other doctors in the medical field, and they wish to go that route with their health, then why shouldn't they?

If a doctor chooses one procedure because it has an 80% sucess rate, but then fails on one patient, and then they want to do it again, rather then give them the other treatment with a 65% sucess rate.... who gives them the authority to make that decision when they were wrong with their decision in the first place?

80% and 65% or whatever %'s you want to use, are all the same.... they are not guarantees, they all have their chances of failure, and although one treatment has a higher rate of sucess then another form of treatment, that is not absolute proof that the alternative treatment will not work better for you then the one that works better for the average person.

And here you sit, trying to tell me that they shouldn't have any ability to choose for themselves?

Therefore you're trying to control the argument in a flawed manner.... you first claim that the parents and the child can not refuse any medical procedure that would save their lives (Child mainly) ~ and you also claim that they shouldn't have any ability to seek alternative medical procedures if they exist, other then the procedure the doctor in question wants to perform.......

.... so in other words, parents and children themselves have no say and no rights when it comes to what doctors and the government forces apon yourself. This includes all vaccines, all operations, everything.... So therefore, I guess the doctors/hospital can decide for me after I die that I will be an organ donor, even though I made it clear I don't want to be one.

Oh.... but we're only talking about crazy religious wing nut families we can't relate to and their children refusing a treatment that most other's finds acceptible, based on their relgious views that I guess we all think are stupid and hold no valid grounds compared to other religions.

Tell me something: Who makes the decision for infants when they get their foreskin removed? What are some of the reasons for a doctor allowing this to occur?

as usual continue to make excuses for this family who KNOW nothing about medical science, who brainwash their kid based on religious nonsense this girl is bleeding to death what other "alternative" treatments can stop that bleeding?. circumcising infants is also child abuse and a primitive barbaric thing that should be outlawed.

 

[Praxius]

as usual continue to make excuses for this family who KNOW nothing about medical science, who brainwash their kid based on religious nonsense this girl is bleeding to death what other "alternative" treatments can stop that bleeding?. circumcising infants is also child abuse and a primitive barbaric thing that should be outlawed.

Yeah well I was cercumcised before I had a choice in the matter and I currently couldn't give a rats ass.... did I suffer or was it painful? How the hell should I know? I don't remember.

Do I need you or others like you defending me from something I couldn't care less about? No.... so pizz off with your savior super hero ways, because I don't need it and you clearly have your perspective on them skewed due to confusing them with female circumcisions (Totally different proceedure) and have no actual clue towards the "Scientific Medical" benifits from male circumcisions..... therefore until you know wtf you're talking about, don't attempt to speak in my defence, you ignorant.

You have no concept of what their medical experience or understanding is, and neither do I. Religious nonsense is subjective, just like science mumbo jumbo... both are of the same tree and neither know the answers to everything in the universe, therefore holding one's faith in either a religion or a science is never an absolute.

Alternative treatments for Gastrointestinal Bleeding:

• Fluid resuscitation: intravenous fluids and blood transfusion may be administered.
• Acid suppression: in an upper GI source, proton pump inhibitors reduce gastric acid production and enhance healing of bleeding lesions.
• Inhibition of fibrinolysis: in ongoing bleeding, tranexamic acid reduces fibrinolysis and may decrease blood product requirements.
• Correction of coagulopathy: if coagulation parameters (e.g. prothrombin time) are deranged, vitamin K or fresh frozen plasma may need to be administered.
• Reduction of portal pressure: if the bleeding is thought to be due to esophageal varices (a complication of cirrhosis of the liver), vasopressin analogues and rarely octreotide may be administered. Rarely, a Sengstaken-Blakemore tube may be inserted to mechanically compress varices.
• Urgent endoscopy: if the bleeding cannot be managed medically an urgent esophagogastroduodenoscopy (EGD/OGD) may identify sources of bleeding. This is a high-risk procedure best performed under safe circumstances in the intensive care unit or operating theatres.
• Surgical intervention: in extreme cases of bleeding, laparotomy may be required to identify the bleeding source.

As you can see there are other alternative treatments she could have sought out that didn't involve the use of blood/plasma.... and she was forced to take the treatment that went against their religion.

If there are other treatments available to be used, and they wish to use them, then they should be allowed regardless of how much of a more pain in the ass it might be for the doctor.

Don't like it? Suck it up.

 

[ShintoMale]

she is a child who is the victim of religious brainwashing and abuse. she needs to see a shrink and removed from that home which is abusive. any child they say they are traumatized by a medical treatment needs a shrink. we don't allow kids to vote, we don't allow imposing political views on children why should religion be any different?

 

[tracy]

Prax, you don't know that those other treatments weren't tried first.

BTW, correction of coagulopathy can require plasma. Some JWs will take it, some won't. I also can't imagine many surgeons eager to do a laparascopic procedure (which causes bleeding) on someone who has already been bleeding for a long time and is unwilling to take a transfusion. Reduction of portal pressure is something that would help someone with liver problems, not crohns.