It's time to re-think marriage!

[SirJosephPorter]

The biggest issue for kids is to have parents behave like adults when they separate.

One of the girls on my daughter's hockey team has (divorced) parents who seem to cooperate well - usually, both parents are there for games, even when they're out of town; the stepfather is one of the coaches, you'll often see all four parents together.

One of the other girls' teams here, the coach is the boyfriend of one of the mothers. He asked her ex-husband to be his assistant coach.

That's called maturity - working together to do what's best for the kids. Not fighting over child support, or smashing property, or trying to brainwash the kids into believing the other parent is evil. Put that stuff aside - put the best interests of the kids at the forefront.

Quite so, maturiy can be displayed within the marriage and within the divorce. Staying together to the bitter and (and beyond bitter end) is not a sign of maturity.

 

[A4NoOb]

When your source relating to statistics has a header using the word "Shocking" your source is already biased.

The link I provided is someone's blog who cites non-biased studies surveying children who have undergone divorce procedures. So typical for you to disregard a piece before even reading it.

Regardless, I never once said Divorce was perfectly fine and everybody should go through them just for the fun of it.... my entire argument is based on the fact that parents divorcing is usually far more healthier for the child then keeping the child in a very unhealthy environment of continual fighting, yelling, violence and hatred, day in and day out and that will cause far more damage then going through a divorce.

And your argument flies in the face of statistics showing the mental and physical stress on children after parents have undergone divorce procedures. What facts are you presenting? Oh that's right the two opinion pieces which allege that divorced parents are better than staying together. You've cited no survey of children who agree/disagree with this statement.

The only reason why children may do better in school or not live in poverty with married parents is because you usually have two incomes keeping them out of poverty.... the other reason why they may do well with school and jobs has probably more to do with them wanting to get the hell out of the environment they've been stuck in for so long.... I know that was one of my main reasons.

Someone's educational successes is trivial compared to their overall mental well-being and ability to hold a healthy and happy relationship in the furture.... your statistics tell one thing, but they don't explain the backgrounds to why those things occur other then "Divorce is bad, stay married regardless if you plan on shooting your husband or not."

I cannot attest to whether it is financial or direct support which leads to the educational success of children, but in my experience both of my parents are not wealthy enough to endorse my education. As such all of my funds are from government loans. How have my parents provided an adequate educational environment for me? By being there when I have assignments, or questions I did not understand. They were mentors to me socially, academically and ethically. Partitioning my parents, regardless of how many times they've argued would've absolutely done more harm than good.

My views and their views are worth a hell of a lot more then you parroting statistical crap that explains nothing and if you took your blinders off your head and looked around the internet for other information then what you just want to see that supports your narrow minded view, you'd see that what I have been saying is more true then you wish to believe and that detailed and explained studies and reports are a hell of a lot better in explaining what's really going on, then linking some idiot with their own biased views who pulled off randomly limited statistics from 30 years ago.

What matters is not how much of a % of a group does what..... it is more important to understand WHY that % exists and where that % comes from.

The statistics I am looking for is regarding testimonies of children. Their first hand accounts and their perspectives on divorce. I'm sorry but majority of children do not agree that divorced parents make their lives easier. Through mental and physical trauma they've degenerated and studies show this. Sure, there are people as yourself who've interpreted a different view. But that is analogous to saying not every clover has 3 leaves.

That's a very odd comment, as it hints that I claimed the majority of all children simply would prefer their parents to divorce regardless of the situation.... If I believed that then it would be logical for my wife and I to divorce as soon as we have our first child :roll:..... try and read what I am saying more clearly....

When in situations as I have already described when the parents are always fighting and are rarely happy, put the children in the middle of their fighting, etc. it is better to divorce then to continue dragging your children through that crap.

If the parents love each other and are perfectly happy more often then not, then there's no reason to divorce at all..... and when you comment that your parents argued often about trivial things, that's a piss poor example to what I am talking about and certainly in no way does it relate to what I experienced and went through.

No child wants to see their parents divorce and they'd much rather see their parents remain together..... even I did for a while..... because it's simply the only life they known since they were born.... it was the only way of life I knew..... but I'm not talking about what children want, I'm talking about what is best for them, as well as best for their parents in these more serious situations.

And if you can't figure out the differences between bickering occasionally about trivial things like the bills, and threatening to kill one another or take a rifle and threaten to shoot your cat right in front of you at the age of 5...... then I honestly don't know wtf to tell you except that you're completely clueless.

Obviously the context called for parents who are fighting. Please show me that parents who are in conflict with one another have the support from their children to divorce instead of remaining together. Links showing the majority of children in such situations would be compelling evidence.

No, I experienced a marriage that was forced to remain a marriage when looking back I found it should have died a long time ago, and I experienced what it's like living after the fact of a divorce. I have also experienced my aunt's and uncle's, as well as my grandparent's successful marriages and the effects they had on my cousins' lives..... there is a level in which a married couple should keep working on their problems, and then there's a whole new level where it's best for everybody if a divorce occurred before someone really gets hurt.

I assume that in your marriage you didn't have children? Regardless of if you did or didn't, bearing children affects the decision for divorce for obvious reasons. Because to put a child through the anguish and to virtually "take sides" of a parental separation is traumatic in the least.

I know perfectly well your underlining intentions are, which is to attempt to rile me up...... you're going to have to do a hell of a lot better then that my fine feathered friend.

Actually that's what I would accuse you of this entire time. From the comment about "ignoring my parent's problems" I knew you were nothing more than leeching off of unofficial anecdotes and throwing viable insults whenever you could.

More accurate, more detailed and something that actually touches base on not just what happens, but also why and how, which normally does tell a completely different story other then the limited story statistics on a sheet of paper create, in which you are left with filling in the gaps with your own imagination, based on the level of bias and wording in the statistic.

Statistics also have a very detailed and accurate outline what they survey. But when they contradict your supposed view of the world it would be natural to cast them aside as biased documents :roll:.

I'm even more curious as to why you somehow think I was implying that a divorce is just one big happy rainbow full of sunshine for all involved when I am talking about long term, not short term during the divorce or shortly after the divorce.

http://www.ecu.edu/cs-educ/econ/upload/salin.pdf
Please explain to me what is the long term implications when children have a tendency to kill themselves.

Empirically, the authors find that the most important variable explaining the risein youth suicide over time is the increased number of youths living with a divorced parent. Divorce rates at the county, state, and national level are highly correlated with youth suicide rates. However, whether this relationship is a manifestation of strategic or rational motivations is unclear.

Explain why this correlation is so strong if long term divorced parents end up sedating a child's depression?

Since your parents are still married (based on your given information) I will not ask this in the past tense..... do your parents still "Love" each other?

Second question: were your parents fighting with one another more often then they were happy together?

To put this as unemotionally as I can, yes my parents love each other. Do they love each other like they used to? Absolutely not, but they recognize that this is a family and that is what comes first. The presence of their own child is what keeps them from fighting one another, which to me seems more of a reason why the sanctity of marriage exists.

My comment was limited to the point that if the only reason why the marriage still exists is simply for "The Children's Sake" then my argument is to imply that for a happy/successful marriage, this is not enough, especially when it comes to the overall welfare of the children involved.

Well this is my situation through and through. If it weren't for me, my parents would've divorced a long time ago. And to be honest, I am very happy they didn't take your advice.

You seem to be getting my position confused with someone who's opposed to marriage, which I am not. I support marriage so long as it is for the right reasons, and I support divorce only when it is necessary.

Then on this note, we have no disagreements.

If you're going to try and use fancy words, at least try and spell them correctly, ie: "ad hominem"

I forgot to put a space in between, the spelling was fine. Honestly is this what you're resorting to? Ad hominem is by no means a "fancy" term.

The only reason why this discussion has stooped to the level it currently is, is because you, like others in the past, have tried to look beyond what I have been saying and trying to imply that I am meaning more then what I have been saying, then following your responses up with arrogance and assumptions about my personal situation while trying to stir up some emotional response from me.

Simply put, don't start sh*t you can't finish.

No matter how much I disagreed with your opinions, I never took it upon myself to use your own experiences against you. You thought it was appropriate to do otherwise. It is clear what you've started.

Once again, the problem in reading lies on your side of things.

Allow me to break it down to you in a simple manner in which you should be able to understand:

....
I never once in this thread claimed that it was possible right now..... I suggested that it will most likely be possible in the future. The previous link I supplied related to eggs, my second link was related to sperm.... in that second link, it confirms the claims I was saying about it being possible in the near future.

You said there were no studies.... I just proved you wrong.

Now.... shall we get back on topic in regards to re-thinking the marriage process, or do you wish to continue this pointlessness?

Dear lord, this is what you said:

Actually what you claim above is no longer true as recent studies and research has shown we can create synthetic sperm and eggs which can be injected with the DNA from either a male or female...

This statement in its entirety is false. You can NOT create a synthetic sperm from a female stem cell. The articles you produced reinforce what I said. What is being tested now is the synthetic reproductive cells from their constituent genders. The reason why they cannot cross over genders is because the genetic data necessary for male chromosomes are lacking in female stem cells. This is a HUGE hurdle. Scientists do not dispute this later, but vaguely theorize it could be possible in the future. I'm sure in the future we won't have to worry about fossil fuels or fatal diseases either.

 

[Praxius]

As I already stated in my previous post:

"Now.... shall we get back on topic in regards to re-thinking the marriage process, or do you wish to continue this pointlessness?"

Clearly you wish to continue this pointlessness.... I however do not and have venture down this side track for long enough... moving on.

 

[#juan]

Originally posted by Karrie: wow, you really missed the point there. once mortgage free I wouldn't have HAD a family juan. I'll take my kids along with my money troubles thanks. Does it make us a better family? no. Does it make us a worse family? no. It just means we have to live intelligently rather than spoiling them and ourselves like crazy. A worthwhile trade-off in my books.

No, you missed mine. My son is a physicist and my daughter in law is a biologist. Both worked for a few years before they got married. They were both making relatively good money and they pumped every nickle they could into the mortgage. Everyone can't do what they did but it has made their lives a lot easier. Having no mortgage now also makes it easier for mom to stay at home with the kids. The only people who spoil their kids are the grandparents.

 

[A4NoOb]

Praxius, everything we've been discussing is relevant to marriage and why it exists. If anything, the reason why this topic is created was due to the contention of rising divorce rates. The effects of divorce rates, and the consequences of amending our marriage stipulations to account for divorce is all strictly relevant to our discussions. Marriage is about family- which as of late has been in jeopardy in North America and Europe. I have already gone over the reasons why, which lead to these walls of text.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

No, you missed mine. My son is a physicist and my daughter in law is a biologist. Both worked for a few years before they got married. They were both making relatively good money and they pumped every nickle they could into the mortgage. Everyone can't do what they did but it has made their lives a lot easier. Having no mortgage now also makes it easier for mom to stay at home with the kids. The only people who spoil their kids are the grandparents.

You got it, juan that indeed is the recipe for success. I am an IT professional, my wife is a family physician. We got married at the age of 27, but held off having a baby until the age of 33, until both of us could establish our careers, and the money was flowing freely.

With no money problems, everything proceeded smoothly. We were able to pay in full for our son’s university education and his medical education. He graduated from medical school debt free; he started his residency in Internal Medicine a few days ago.

While lack of money problems does not guarantee a happy marriage, money problems usually guarantee an unhappy one.

 

[VanIsle]

Divorce isn`t always better.

What Is The Affect On Children When Parents Decide To Stay Married For Them?

Divorced parents should all have to read a book called ``Tug of War``. It`s all about learning to put the children first and how NOT to use them against the other parent. My niece recommended it so I bought it for our son. He said he couldn`t have better advice and it made him realize how important it is to make sure you are putting the children first. He says almost everyone he talks to has read the book.

 

[karrie]

No, you missed mine. My son is a physicist and my daughter in law is a biologist. Both worked for a few years before they got married. They were both making relatively good money and they pumped every nickle they could into the mortgage. Everyone can't do what they did but it has made their lives a lot easier. Having no mortgage now also makes it easier for mom to stay at home with the kids. The only people who spoil their kids are the grandparents.

No, I understood your point just fine. What I said is not all people can or should do it that way. It wouldn't have made my marriage easier to do it that way, as it would have made me miserable in the long run. What matters isn't the money, what matters is that they were on the same page, striving for the same goals.

Divorced parents should all have to read a book called ``Tug of War``. It`s all about learning to put the children first and how NOT to use them against the other parent.

lol... sounds like one some married parents could stand to read.

 

[VanIsle]

I never thought of that Karrie but you're probably right.

 

[gerryh]

Speaking as someone who was born and raised in the Roman Catholic Church for almost 20 years of my youth, by all means, please explain to me those misconceptions you speak of.

as someone that is still Catholic, divorced and remarried, I know it would be a waste of time to try and correct the village idiots.

 

[Colpy]

as someone that is still Catholic, divorced and remarried, I know it would be a waste of time to try and correct the village idiots.

Geez, and Gerry's such a SWEET guy....I can't imagine him in a failed relationship......

 

[karrie]

Really? come on now... using someone's personal details to take jabs is low.

Moving aside from that though... I've NEVER seen a Catholic be excommunicated for divorcing.