Israel Successfully Tests Missile Program

nitzomoe

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Dec 31, 2004
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Re: RE: Israel Successfully T

I think not said:
moghrabi said:
They will not be wiped out off the map. But for the last 55 years, they never enjoyed their country that was stolen from others and they will never enjoy it as long as they are occupiers.

The UN gave it to them, they never stole anything, they didn't take it by force, on the contrary, the Arabs tried to take it back by force, they got kicked back, over and over and over again.

And the Israelis will continue to kick their asses back, over and over and over again. And the cycle will continue, because the Arabs instigated it and the Israelis continued it.

well it certainly wasnt one sided aggression, Anyone rememeber King David Hotel terrorist attack? that was by a jewish terrorist group known as Irgun, which happend to have several of its israeli prime ministers who fought in that terrorist organization. They are also responsible for a lot of the "voluntary" arab expulsions from israel during the 1948 war of independance.

Not saying the jews are totally at fault, but it definitely wasnt just arabs using aggression to solve problems. I knew World issues would be a useful course to take!

There are lots of sights dedicated to this sort of thing but I use: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/irguntoc.html
among others.
 

jimmoyer

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You are correct on that fact.

But the BIGGEST fact remains how little the Arab world cared about the Palestinian plight. They were fodder for another Arab elite purpose. And of course the arab street, the arab mob, and a good many westerners fell for it.
 

MMMike

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Mar 21, 2005
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#juan said:
I fully expect Israel to blow Iran's nuclear facilities to hell any time now. Israel, somehow has the U.S. by the short and curlies and there hasn' been a single UN resolution concerning Israel that the U.S. didn't veto. As for Israel being a Liberal democracy, I guess it is, for Israelis. It certainly isn't for the indigenous Arabs living in that country.

Blah! Arabs in Israel enjoy more rights, and a greater standard of living than in any of the Arab countries around it.
 

Colpy

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MMMike said:
#juan said:
I fully expect Israel to blow Iran's nuclear facilities to hell any time now. Israel, somehow has the U.S. by the short and curlies and there hasn' been a single UN resolution concerning Israel that the U.S. didn't veto. As for Israel being a Liberal democracy, I guess it is, for Israelis. It certainly isn't for the indigenous Arabs living in that country.

Blah! Arabs in Israel enjoy more rights, and a greater standard of living than in any of the Arab countries around it.

ABSOLUTELY!!

Seats in the Knesset.

Mayors are often Arab, the Israeli Supreme Court has often decided in the favour of Arabs, and they don't serve in the military (except the Bedouin, who have long done honourable service in the IDF).

Suicide or terrorist attacks by Israeli Arabs are practically unheard of. They know they've got it good.

The down side is that most of them CAN'T serve in the military, they are denied the right to bear arms as do the rest of Israelis, and the Israeli police most certainly do practise racial profiling.

BUT, here is the question that needs to be asked:
Would you rather be an Arab in Israel, or a Jew in any Arab country?

The answer is?

And therefore which side should you be supporting?
 

Colpy

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#juan said:
That area has been called Palestine for at least twelve hundred years. The Arabs who called themselves Palestinians had lived there for at least that long. The Palestinians, if we go by history, have a better claim to that land than the Jews do. Unfortunately posession is nine tenths of the law. Turkey invaded a lot of places. where are they now?

And the Jews had a nation called Israel 1000 years before that.

So where do you draw your lines in time?
 

I think not

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Colpy said:
ABSOLUTELY!!

Seats in the Knesset.

Mayors are often Arab, the Israeli Supreme Court has often decided in the favour of Arabs, and they don't serve in the military (except the Bedouin, who have long done honourable service in the IDF).

Suicide or terrorist attacks by Israeli Arabs are practically unheard of. They know they've got it good.

The down side is that most of them CAN'T serve in the military, they are denied the right to bear arms as do the rest of Israelis, and the Israeli police most certainly do practise racial profiling.

BUT, here is the question that needs to be asked:
Would you rather be an Arab in Israel, or a Jew in any Arab country?

The answer is?

And therefore which side should you be supporting?

Colpy I agree with many of the things you say, but Israel isn't a saint.

I'm not sure if you are interested in documentaries or not, and how picky you are. I happen to be very picky with what I decide to watch (and read). However there is a documentary entitled "The 50 year war:Israel and the Arabs", a PBS documentary.

The level of detail and the backup of evidence they provide is astounding. Personal interviews, footage, documents, you name it, they cite it.

You can clearly see that both sides are very deceptive in their tactics.

In the end, the worst of all is that the people suffer, both Jews and Arabs, because of stubborn, indifferent and narrow-minded politicians.
 

Colpy

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Colpy I agree with many of the things you say, but Israel isn't a saint.

I'm not sure if you are interested in documentaries or not, and how picky you are. I happen to be very picky with what I decide to watch (and read). However there is a documentary entitled "The 50 year war:Israel and the Arabs", a PBS documentary.

Oh, I know the Israelis are not perfect, far from it.

I am sickened by Israel putting Arab farmers off land their family has occupied for centuries because they don't have a deed.

It is only a very few years ago the Israeli Supreme Court illegalized torture.

During the war in Lebanon, I saw pictures of Israeli troop carriers moving through Arab areas with Arabs cuffed to the outside, so any attack would kill them first. I was shocked, as this is a tactic the SS used in suppressing the Warsaw Ghetto uprising.

Sabra and that other refugee camp, where the Israelis stood by as Phalangist militias from Lebanon (armed by Israel), murdered hundreds of Arab men, women, and children. Sharon was banned from military command for it.

But, as with Bush in Iraq, when its war, you have little choice but back the lesser of two evils.

And Israel, like America, is very much the lesser of two evils.

The trick is to do it with your eyes wide open.
 

jimmoyer

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Good posts Colby.

Those who support Israel seem to know all the Israeli sins, but I don't get the same impression for those who support the eradication of Israel and who support the Palestinians without mentioning the Arab world's complicity in using them as fodder.
 

#juan

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And the Jews had a nation called Israel 1000 years before that.

So where do you draw your lines in time?

The Jews lived in and had control of Israel for less than three hundred years. When the U.S. bullied the UN into creating Israel, Palestinian Arabs outnumbered the Jews by at least a thousand to one. American money armed the Jews and continues to arm them.

http://www.cactus48.com/truth.html
 

jimmoyer

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The Jews lived in and had control of Israel for less than three hundred years. When the U.S. bullied the UN into creating Israel, Palestinian Arabs outnumbered the Jews by at least a thousand to one. American money armed the Jews and continues to arm them.

____________________________--#juan________________


This is false and misleading.

The tidal wave of illegal jews enterred the area of Palestine in such large numbers, they quickly became the majority right after WWII, and by 1948 the demographics AT THAT TIME dominated the native Arabs.

Had this tidal wave of immigration not happened, you would have seen no interest on the part of the British who ruled Palestine to send troops to defend the Jews much less even create a state for them, despite the zionist movement for it.
 

#juan

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jimmoyer

I cannot believe how ignorant you are. The link I posted was written by Jews who lived there when it was all happening. Be happy...
 

jimmoyer

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And then the history of this jewish immigration is much more complicated than most posters supporting the Palestinians know:

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_mandate_oppose_immigration.php

This link shows how time and time again Britain OPPOSED the immigration of the Jews, even to the point of looking the other way at a wave of illegal immigration of Arabs from other lands, not part of TransJordan or Palestine.

This demographics war waged back and forth.
 

jimmoyer

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Jewish vs. Arab Immigration

During World War I, the Jewish population declined because of the war, famine, disease and expulsion. In 1915, approximately 83,000 Jews lived in Palestine among 590,000 Muslim and Christian Arabs. According to the 1922 census, the Jewish population was 84,000, while the Arabs numbered 643,000.4 Thus, the Arab population continued to grow exponentially even while that of the Jews stagnated.

In the mid-1920s, Jewish immigration to Palestine increased primarily because of anti-Jewish economic legislation in Poland and Washington’s imposition of restrictive quotas.5

The record number of immigrants in 1935 (see table) was a response to the growing persecution of Jews in Nazi Germany. The British administration considered this number too large, however, so the Jewish Agency was informed that less than one-third of the quota it asked for would be approved in 1936.6

The British gave in further to Arab demands by announcing in the 1939 White Paper that an independent Arab state would be created within 10 years, and that Jewish immigration was to be limited to 75,000 for the next five years, after which it was to cease altogether. It also forbade land sales to Jews in 95 percent of the territory of Palestine. The Arabs, nevertheless, rejected the proposal.

Jewish Immigrants to Palestine


By contrast, throughout the Mandatory period, Arab immigration was unrestricted. In 1930, the Hope Simpson Commission, sent from London to investigate the 1929 Arab riots, said the British practice of ignoring the uncontrolled illegal Arab immigration from Egypt, Transjordan and Syria had the effect of displacing the prospective Jewish immigrants.7

The British Governor of the Sinai from 1922-36 observed: “This illegal immigration was not only going on from the Sinai, but also from Transjordan and Syria, and it is very difficult to make a case out for the misery of the Arabs if at the same time their compatriots from adjoining states could not be kept from going in to share that misery.”8

The Peel Commission reported in 1937 that the “shortfall of land is, we consider, due less to the amount of land acquired by Jews than to the increase in the Arab population.”9

No Refuge From the Holocaust
The gates of Palestine remained closed for the duration of the war, stranding hundreds of thousands of Jews in Europe, many of whom became victims of Hitler’s Final Solution. After the war, the British refused to allow the survivors of the Nazi nightmare to find sanctuary in Palestine. On June 6, 1946, President Truman urged the British government to relieve the suffering of the Jews confined to displaced persons camps in Europe by immediately accepting 100,000 Jewish immigrants. Britain's Foreign Minister, Ernest Bevin, replied sarcastically that the United States wanted displaced Jews to immigrate to Palestine “because they did not want too many of them in New York.”10

Some Jews were able to reach Palestine, many by way of dilapidated ships that members of the Jewish resistance organizations smuggled in. Between August 1945 and the establishment of the State of Israel in May 1948, 65 “illegal ” immigrant ships, carrying 69,878 people, arrived from European shores. In August 1946, however, the British began to intern those they caught in camps in Cyprus.

Approximately 50,000 people were detained in the camps, 28,000 of whom were still imprisoned when Israel declared independence.11